The Official Hungarian GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****
Discussion
ash73 said:
And if Lewis hadn't continued to fight with Nico in Canada he might have finished the race. If, could, should, whatever... it's points that count.
That presupposes that the WDC is the only thing that matters, and I have to say that I'm not so sure. It's exciting at the end of a season, of that there is no doubt, but it is not the only thing that count.People criticise the current formula for being 'artificial' yet the method of scoring is even more so. The points are arbitrary and only give a target - and we all know the problems with target-led culture.
I ran a fantasy F1 game at work for five years and over that time the scoring developed to take into account merit. We included points for grid position, points for the number of positions in front of the other car in your team (and negatives) on the grid and in finishing, places made up during the race, improvement over races, that sort of thing. The idea was to reward good and improving driving and cars. There were no debits for mechanical failure, lots for single vehicle accidents and man of the race. We tried overtakes, but there was a great deal of argument despite the lap charts in Autosport, so I dropped that.
I think 'my' (it was developed jointly) system rewarded the best drivers, those who did the best with their machinery and those who improved.
ash73 said:
Lewis acknowledged it in his column on the Beeb web site the following week. He said with hindsight he regretted not backing off and consolidating his position. Listen to your master, fanboy.
You are pretty pathetic with the hatred aren't you ?
What Lewis actually said was:
Lewis said:
In hindsight, when we first hit problems with the kinetic energy recovery system, I could have let Nico pull away. Then I'd have had clean air, wouldn't have had such a hot car and maybe the brakes wouldn't have overheated when I did my pit stop.
In other words with the benefit of hindsight he would have been even kinder to the car given that it had a separate problem with the brakes and just maybe it would have made it to the end of the race.I'm pretty sure a crystal ball isn't standard fitment in an F1 car.
I'm no "fanboy" as you put it. You on the other hand like to twist absolutely any little piece of information to knock Hamilton and to be honest its pretty sad that you have so much hatred for another person.
Don't feed the troll...
You are pretty pathetic with the hatred aren't you ?
What Lewis actually said was:
I'm pretty sure a crystal ball isn't standard fitment in an F1 car.
I'm no "fanboy" as you put it. You on the other hand like to twist absolutely any little piece of information to knock Hamilton and to be honest its pretty sad that you have so much hatred for another person.
Crafty_ said:
ash73 said:
Lewis acknowledged it in his column on the Beeb web site the following week. He said with hindsight he regretted not backing off and consolidating his position. Listen to your master, fanboy.
You are pretty pathetic with the hatred aren't you ?
What Lewis actually said was:
Lewis said:
In hindsight, when we first hit problems with the kinetic energy recovery system, I could have let Nico pull away. Then I'd have had clean air, wouldn't have had such a hot car and maybe the brakes wouldn't have overheated when I did my pit stop.
In other words with the benefit of hindsight he would have been even kinder to the car given that it had a separate problem with the brakes and just maybe it would have made it to the end of the race.I'm pretty sure a crystal ball isn't standard fitment in an F1 car.
I'm no "fanboy" as you put it. You on the other hand like to twist absolutely any little piece of information to knock Hamilton and to be honest its pretty sad that you have so much hatred for another person.
It is odd the amount of vitriol that gets spread around if you happen to criticise Hamilton. Anyway.
I still think Hamilton should win the WDC, if he doesn't this year then it will be very disappointing. I think he is slightly faster driver (not much, but enough) and more aggressive in terms of overtaking than Nico.
On the flipside, Nico is less likely to inflict a DNF on himself (I think Hamilton was very lucky in Germany) as he is more cautious.
The rest are so far behind the Mercs in pace that barring reliability it will come down to the relative number of firsts and seconds between the two.
Oh, and double points of course - will be interesting to see the reaction depending on which driver benefits from it.
I still think Hamilton should win the WDC, if he doesn't this year then it will be very disappointing. I think he is slightly faster driver (not much, but enough) and more aggressive in terms of overtaking than Nico.
On the flipside, Nico is less likely to inflict a DNF on himself (I think Hamilton was very lucky in Germany) as he is more cautious.
The rest are so far behind the Mercs in pace that barring reliability it will come down to the relative number of firsts and seconds between the two.
Oh, and double points of course - will be interesting to see the reaction depending on which driver benefits from it.
ash73 said:
What are you talking about Crafty? I don't hate anyone, in fact I often complement Lewis' performances; you just assume anyone who isn't 100% up his arse is a "hater".
So you bring LH's performance to perfection, do you. Now that sounds just a little like self aggrandisement to me. I think the problem in these discussions is that there are enough stupid comments from Hamilton lovers/ haters than anyone who is moderately one way or the other just gets jumped on by the other side, rather than their comment getting evaluted by what it actually says.
My view on the Alonso situation is that he is certaintly one of the best. However in theory Hamilton would do similar to Kimi though from the season they were together. I am not sure about Kimi, if he's just like Button (very consistent, very good driver but cannot adapt to the car if it's not the "correct" setup) or if he's just not bothered this season. But certaintly I don't see it proving Fernando doing much better than the others.
heebeegeetee said:
Well, this is what i think:
I think Lewis is that little bit quicker than Nico.
I think he is better on tyres than Nico.
I think he uses less fuel than Nico.
What does this amount to: While Lewis consistently trails in points, Jack Squat. We can talk about it until the cows come home but as the season progresses it's looking less likely that Lewis will win the championship.
The fact is, he is not consistently beating his team mate. I think the championship will be decided by reliability, in other words Lewis is not the master of his destiny.
Meanwhile over at Camp Ferrari Fernando is giving yet another team mate a right good spanking. This time the team mate is a highly rated former world champion.
In a nutshell, with all top current F1 drivers except Fernando we've had to rip up the form book.
I agree with your current evluation about Hamilton. And yes, it will probably be reliability and the double points that decide things this year. Hower you comment below was a bit odd:I think Lewis is that little bit quicker than Nico.
I think he is better on tyres than Nico.
I think he uses less fuel than Nico.
What does this amount to: While Lewis consistently trails in points, Jack Squat. We can talk about it until the cows come home but as the season progresses it's looking less likely that Lewis will win the championship.
The fact is, he is not consistently beating his team mate. I think the championship will be decided by reliability, in other words Lewis is not the master of his destiny.
Meanwhile over at Camp Ferrari Fernando is giving yet another team mate a right good spanking. This time the team mate is a highly rated former world champion.
In a nutshell, with all top current F1 drivers except Fernando we've had to rip up the form book.
heebeegeetee said:
Only in terms of championship positions. When both cars are on track, both are really struggling to beat their team mates. Even at Silverstone when Nico broke down he was in front.
Seb's having a torrid time, but again when both cars are on track Seb is really struggling against his team mate.
The reason being if you remove the DNFs then the championship points would show Hamilton as beating his teammate overall, so no struggling there. He's not doing it by as much as some people thought he might, but Nico has been talked about as someone underrated on here for a while now (before this season). And he didn't do too badly against the most sucessful F1 racer of all time in regards to championships.Seb's having a torrid time, but again when both cars are on track Seb is really struggling against his team mate.
My view on the Alonso situation is that he is certaintly one of the best. However in theory Hamilton would do similar to Kimi though from the season they were together. I am not sure about Kimi, if he's just like Button (very consistent, very good driver but cannot adapt to the car if it's not the "correct" setup) or if he's just not bothered this season. But certaintly I don't see it proving Fernando doing much better than the others.
ash73 said:
Derek Smith said:
So you bring LH's performance to perfection, do you.
What does that even mean?Don't feel obliged to enjoy my little word-play though. But it might be better for all concerned if you played just a little bit nicer. The qually hasn't started yet and the race is 30 hours or so away, so it is a bit early for the strops.
Crafty_ said:
ash73 said:
And if Lewis hadn't continued to fight with Nico in Canada he might have finished the race. If, could, should, whatever... it's points that count.
He did no such thing.If Nico hadn't of left the track and accelerated back on to it so as not to avoid losing the position after making a mistake Lewis's brakes would have been in cooler air and might not have overheated.
FYI the team said it was a separate failure nothing to do with the way Lewis drove the car or the power problem that hit both cars.
ks!!The brakes on both cars were f
ked.Lewis carried on driving the way Lewis does and broke his car as a result.
Nico backed off thinking finishing in the points is better than a DNF
ash73 said:
vonuber said:
It is odd the amount of vitriol that gets spread around if you happen to criticise Hamilton.
Agree - hater, troll, pathetic, self aggrandisement, blah, blah all in one page because I pointed out how great a job Nico was doing. It's a shame.
really annoying. I had the audacity to criticise Hamilton the Great's crashyness in Germany and received the same treatment. Crafty_ said:
FYI the team said it was a separate failure nothing to do with the way Lewis drove the car or the power problem that hit both cars.
thats bks thoughthe loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
ash73 said:
Agree - hater, troll, pathetic, self aggrandisement, blah, blah all in one page because I pointed out how great a job Nico was doing. It's a shame.
If you care to look back I've consistently given Nico praise He's good and always has been since his first race where he took a good number of positions off the start.
I'm yet ot see any praise for Hamilton from you despite your claims of doing so.
Scuffers said:
thats bks though
the loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
I'll let Paddy know that he's wrong then.ks thoughthe loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
BritishRacinGrin said:
really annoying. I had the audacity to criticise Hamilton the Great's crashyness in Germany and received the same treatment. Someone is bringing up the brakes in Canada again, both drivers were battling some unknown issues. Kimi would have had a DNF if there hadn't been all that run off. (which he then took at full throttle to put Lewis back out of DRS and make him work harder to get back in range). BUT, I'm not having a go at Nico, he flirted with the edge and got away with it. Lewis flirted with the edge and got burned.... Nico flirted with the edge in Monaco qualifying and ultimately got an advantage. It's what happens in racing. Why have such a problem with it and why want to focus on Hamilton errors?
It seems so hard for some people to be objective. I've no idea why.
Ash, you make a valid point about Nico not getting the credit he deserves for his performance. He has done an excellent job so far and looks to me to be slight favorite for the WDC. But why can't you say that without having a dig at Hamilton or his fans?
Crafty_ said:
Scuffers said:
thats bks though
the loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
I'll let Paddy know that he's wrong then.ks thoughthe loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
and whilst you at it, ask specifically then why he thinks the smaller rear brakes (compared to last years lighter car) are up to the job of providing 100% of the braking requirement at the rear.
(you do realise that half the stuff we are told by the teams is at best misleading?)
BritishRacinGrin said:
Read it again. I didn't even say 'great crashyness' 
You're correct. If I correct the quote does it change the point? Nope.Ash, I considered the more intelligent racer comment a dig. It's one of those comments that gets made which I'm never sure of the basis. I see very little between Lewis an Nico (Nico has been quicker than Lewis plenty of times this year) other than Lewis being more aggressive. Whether that's a good or bad thing we won't know until the end of the season (or perhaps more so the end of their careers).
Scuffers said:
Crafty_ said:
Scuffers said:
thats bks though
the loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
I'll let Paddy know that he's wrong then.ks thoughthe loss of ERS braking was the direct cause of the rear brakes overheating on both cars.
this years cars have smaller rear brakes as when everything is working, they are not required to do that much, problem is when ERS fails they are not up to the job of 100% rear brake loads.
and whilst you at it, ask specifically then why he thinks the smaller rear brakes (compared to last years lighter car) are up to the job of providing 100% of the braking requirement at the rear.
(you do realise that half the stuff we are told by the teams is at best misleading?)
Or maybe, just maybe you are wrong ? Like your promise that they wouldn't use anymore than 10k revs, yet we've seen the telemetry of them using 11,500+ from various cars.
Given where Paddy is and his expertise I'm sure you'll forgive me for believing him, rather than some bloke on the internet.
ash73 said:
I just suggested he might DNF this week because his car has been stretched, that's not a dig. And then Crafty got his stupid knickers in a twist and went off on one.
You didn't suggest, you wished for a DNF on a driver. I didn't go "off on one" just pointed out that far as I can see you are one of those who is consistently down on Hamilton. Anyway, moving on...
It seems that the now ex-employees from Caterham are taking action for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
Can't quite figure this one out. I'm not sure if the new owners have done something a bit naughty or if this is a lawyer who is earning a few quid by representing them.. as we know, employment law is tricky but surely given that the owners had just bought the team and will have had a legal team working on it all contracts would have been reviewed, a plan made for redundancies and the due diligence done ?
Seems a bit odd.
Bright sunshine in Hungary at present for GP3 qualifying.
Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 26th July 09:11
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