The Official Hungarian GP Thread 2014 *******Spoilers*****
Discussion
MGJohn said:
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
LH has 95% of NR pointsSV has 67% of DR ponts
If all drivers had finished all races - i.e. no non-self inflicted DNFs - I would imagine the gaps would be close to non-existent and we might see LH ahead of NR and SV ahead of DR.
I doubt that there's much to pick between any of the top drivers but surely one has to rate DRs performances this season as exceptional and maybe a little surprising given SVs performances. Has Seb beaten Daniel in a fair fight yet this season?
johnfm said:
This is what confused me. Hamilton opened up a big enough gap to put and still come out a few seconds ahead. So why put him on a different strategy? Put him on the super soft and let him loose or put both on a one stop/long stint. I can see that as a team they were hedging their bets - but I would only expect them to do that if there was rain about and they stuck intermediates on one car and not the other.
MGJohn said:
Yes, in reality pure stats do show that for 2014 but, Vettel has in addition to an inferior car, particularly from the reliability viewpoint, had more non-self-inflicted DNFs than even 'unlucky' Hamilton. Cannot remember any Safety Car "assists" for Vettel either.
Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
Are you sure you've watched F1 for long? You honestly don't post like someone who has, imo. Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
You tend to post more like a teenager - always stirring up trouble whilst always wanting to be seen to be right.
IainT said:
MGJohn said:
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
LH has 95% of NR pointsSV has 67% of DR ponts
If all drivers had finished all races - i.e. no non-self inflicted DNFs - I would imagine the gaps would be close to non-existent and we might see LH ahead of NR and SV ahead of DR.
I doubt that there's much to pick between any of the top drivers but surely one has to rate DRs performances this season as exceptional and maybe a little surprising given SVs performances. Has Seb beaten Daniel in a fair fight yet this season?
if you then take into account Vettel's mechanical failures as well as Lewis's you get a completely different picture.
all that said, I believe DR is the real deal.
MGJohn said:
Crafty_ said:
4 Time Champion (in a row) Vettel has been comprehensively out raced by a team mate with less than half the experience he has in the same car.
Works both ways.
Yes, in reality pure stats do show that for 2014 but, Vettel has in addition to an inferior car, particularly from the reliability viewpoint, had more non-self-inflicted DNFs than even 'unlucky' Hamilton. Cannot remember any Safety Car "assists" for Vettel either. Works both ways.
Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
MGJohn said:
Yes, in reality pure stats do show that for 2014 but, Vettel has in addition to an inferior car, particularly from the reliability viewpoint, had more non-self-inflicted DNFs than even 'unlucky' Hamilton. Cannot remember any Safety Car "assists" for Vettel either.
Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
If Seb was lucky, it was primarliy that he had a team mate who couldn't (or wasn't allowed to) compete with him whilst in a very good car. So many factors could explain his loss in from, the changes in regulations really don't seem to suit him and of course Daniel is having a brilliant season. But in your haste to criticise Hamilton, you dumb down the discussion. Look at the Saftey Car incident at Bahrain, look at the SC that wasnt at Germany. A little balance from all camps is missing here (which ironically is what you are really commenting on). Lewis has been outpaced by Nico on plenty of occaisions this year and Nico stands at the head of the championship on merit (he can only take the opportunities that present themselves). However I also think that Lewis has done very well to be as close as he is and has the better of the head to head racing we have seen so far. Should be a brillaint second half to the season.Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
Catatafish said:
johnfm said:
This is what confused me. Hamilton opened up a big enough gap to put and still come out a few seconds ahead. So why put him on a different strategy? Put him on the super soft and let him loose or put both on a one stop/long stint. I can see that as a team they were hedging their bets - but I would only expect them to do that if there was rain about and they stuck intermediates on one car and not the other.
heebeegeetee said:
MGJohn said:
Yes, in reality pure stats do show that for 2014 but, Vettel has in addition to an inferior car, particularly from the reliability viewpoint, had more non-self-inflicted DNFs than even 'unlucky' Hamilton. Cannot remember any Safety Car "assists" for Vettel either.
Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
Are you sure you've watched F1 for long? You honestly don't post like someone who has, imo. Note how very few here on PH mention that but incessantly do for Hamilton unlike on other car sites you can access. Very convenient for some with the "Vettel is lucky" and "Hamilton the great" agenda.
Thus, Vettel is "out raced" by his team mate whilst Rosberg has not done that to Hamilton. ...
Illogical Cap'n but logical within some PH circles.
Having written that, it is still quite possible that Ricciardo is more than just a good emerging talent. Could be an exceptional one.
With more time we shall see.
You tend to post more like a teenager - always stirring up trouble whilst always wanting to be seen to be right.
In all seriousness: I think it's plain to see that Vettel is being outdriven fair and square by DR, in a general sense. I think DR is the real deal and quite possibly / maybe the next F1 superstar; trust that pesky Red Bull to get another one right after Seb! I haven't written SV off yet as he's still supreme but... DR's results week in and week out suggest Vettel leaned more on blown diffusers and the like than anyone really knew... and why shouldn't he! But now they are gone... and these cars require a different way of driving completely. Who has made the transition well? Mostly all of the drivers, I would say. I think that the reason Hamilton's bad luck is brought up is because he is in the title race. Vettel isn't but this doesn't change the fact that Vettel has indeed had some rotten luck this season; no doubt.
London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Merc never said they would not SPLIT strategys, they have split them in many races so far this year! What they said was they would not CHANGE strategy during the race unless something unusuall happened and lewis ending up in front of Nico from the pit lane (due to the safety car i know) was unexpected if not unusuall, this put thier strict sticking to the strategy ethos into disarray and led to the paniced " let Nico pass" call.
IMHO a team that plans to never chage strategy is a team that has a weak backup strategy, as proven in Hungary.
heebeegeetee said:
Are you sure you've watched F1 for long? You honestly don't post like someone who has, imo.
You tend to post more like a teenager - always stirring up trouble whilst always wanting to be seen to be right.
How very dare you ! Seriously I have been watching F1 for well in excess of thirty five minutes so obviously know all there is to know about the subject.You tend to post more like a teenager - always stirring up trouble whilst always wanting to be seen to be right.
MGJohn ( aged 13.376% )
NRS said:
MGJohn, I have a question about your view on Vettel's DNFs. You've said a few times you think Hamilton is probably harder on the car than Rosberg because of the DNFs. Does that mean you're thinking Vettel is harder on the car since he's had a lot more failures than DR?
It is quite possible. Although with insufficient evidence, impossible to say and the teams are unlikely to tell us one way or another. More than one of Vettel's car problems happened before the races or even before FP 1-2-3. Still could be because he is harder on the cars previously.The previous four years, Vettel had fewer DNFs or car trouble than Webber. Obviously, that was "favouritism" ....
Irrespective of causes, one thing is certain, Vettel has a superior DNF total than Hamilton this current season. ...
I'm now off to check and see how often Vettel has qualified in front of his aussie team mate. i.e. "out driven" .... Bet it's none......
So ..... four weeks is too long in F1.
Scuffers said:
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Nope, it's just because he is an arse. I and all of my friends were excited when he started in F1. Now we are just embarrassed by him.
Honestly, I think this says more about you and your friends.What has Lewis ever done to deserve such crap?
only think I can think of is that he's about the only one in F1 who has not come from money and (arguably) is the best driver out there.
yonex said:
Norfolkit said:
Presumably you've been following F1 for about 20 minutes, "Senna, Prost, Schumacher all had their moments"? Senna was ruthless and didn't think twice about taking his team mate off, Prost wasn't above using politics against his team mate (and in consequence his own team), think Japan '89 and as for Schumy and team orders, I wouldn't go there if I were you.
Moments my arse.
Whatever you say.Moments my arse.
I was lucky enough to watch Senna is his prime. Lewis is weak, he puts it out there and make it obvious how to get under his skin. We shouldn't mention Senna. Prost and Shumacher in the same breath really. Lewis IS quick but so flawed. Senna moved from Brazil and lived the lowlife before actually retiring in 1981.
Lewis Hamilton has been funded by Mclaren for 'x' years and now has more money than he can ever spend. He can afford to be how is is, however this will not win him a Championship. Let's talk about consistency, how does Lewis stack up? Put a solid team mate against him and he crumbles.
In discussion with my missus about Lewis - she's a big fan of his driving. I think he's the one worth watching in any race. Not sure if that makes me a fan or not.
Anyway, I mentioned that LH had made up 50 places in the last four races and she asked if there's any record on how many overtakes each driver does during the race/season.
Can anyone help?
By the way, she was a bit miffed at comments on the TV (thanks heavens she doesn't read PH) about LH locking up and touching a Ferrari.
'So the percentage overtakes that he has made mistakes big enough to put him out should be easy to work out then.' I'll get my calculator.
Anyway, I mentioned that LH had made up 50 places in the last four races and she asked if there's any record on how many overtakes each driver does during the race/season.
Can anyone help?
By the way, she was a bit miffed at comments on the TV (thanks heavens she doesn't read PH) about LH locking up and touching a Ferrari.
'So the percentage overtakes that he has made mistakes big enough to put him out should be easy to work out then.' I'll get my calculator.
S0 What said:
London424 said:
It's not about hindsight...it's the fact the team split strategies...which is something they said they wouldn't do. If Rosberg was put on the Softs to do 2 stops, then they should have followed suit with Hamilton.
Merc never said they would not SPLIT strategys, they have split them in many races so far this year! What they said was they would not CHANGE strategy during the race unless something unusuall happened and lewis ending up in front of Nico from the pit lane (due to the safety car i know) was unexpected if not unusuall, this put thier strict sticking to the strategy ethos into disarray and led to the paniced " let Nico pass" call.
IMHO a team that plans to never chage strategy is a team that has a weak backup strategy, as proven in Hungary.
I'm pretty sure they've stopped them the same number of times every race...the only exception is the tyres that they put on each car.
I've honesty never seen someone as 'obsessed' as this no body talking about Lewis Hamilton (in a bad light) ....
You obviously have a build up of frustration, just take a picture of him into the bathroom, and be done with it...
Good lord.
You obviously have a build up of frustration, just take a picture of him into the bathroom, and be done with it...
Good lord.
MGJohn said:
It is quite possible. Although with insufficient evidence, impossible to say and the teams are unlikely to tell us one way or another. More than one of Vettel's car problems happened before the races or even before FP 1-2-3. Still could be because he is harder on the cars previously.
The previous four years, Vettel had fewer DNFs or car trouble than Webber. Obviously, that was "favouritism" ....
Irrespective of causes, one thing is certain, Vettel has a superior DNF total than Hamilton this current season. ...
I'm now off to check and see how often Vettel has qualified in front of his aussie team mate. i.e. "out driven" .... Bet it's none......
So ..... four weeks is too long in F1.
The previous four years, Vettel had fewer DNFs or car trouble than Webber. Obviously, that was "favouritism" ....
Irrespective of causes, one thing is certain, Vettel has a superior DNF total than Hamilton this current season. ...
I'm now off to check and see how often Vettel has qualified in front of his aussie team mate. i.e. "out driven" .... Bet it's none......
So ..... four weeks is too long in F1.
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