Car supplying dealer problem.
Discussion
Sorry for the long start, I'll keep it as short as possible..
Bought a car from a dealer which came with a 3 month warranty, as a condition of sale the car was to have a full service conducted on the car. Picked the car up, checked for new oil, which there was so I drove off happy. A day after I noticed a "ticking" like noise coming from the engine bay itself. I spoke to the dealer who informed me that it was a characteristic of the engine (1.4, heavily turbocharged unit) and having only ever owned N/A and been around turbo diesels I took him on his word.
Fast forward 3 months (3 days short of exact purchase date) the car began to misfire, so I pulled over where I could, popped the bonnet and had a look to see if there was anything that had come off or immediately broken, which there wasn't. I called the AA who attended my car and as usual the car began to run properly again, all be it with the same ticking noise. When the AA patrol had a look at my car he diagnosed a cylinder 1 misfire, fine, took what he believed to be cylinder 1, (on drivers side, becomes relevant later) checked, found no fault, but immediately commented on the poor condition of the spark plugs, and asked me when the car was last serviced, to which I said when I bought the car. He then said that they weren't and needed changing soon, so as there was no fault then he carried on as did I.
The next day came around and as I was out for work, the car began to misfire again, so I immediately switched it off and coasted to a nearby parking spot, opened the bonnet, and called the AA. Second patrol comes out, diagnoses the same fault with the same cylinder, and suggested we change the spark plugs as fault had not disappeared when he showed up. He got some new ones, went to slot them in and came to cylinder 4 (nearest passenger side)instantly commented on how loose it was and when took it out saw the the electrode of the spark plug had melted/snapped and gone into the engine bay. He then realised that the my car fires non-sequentially (like a Clio apparently) We checked everything else over, cleared the OBD and started it up and immediately the "ticking" was gone, but there was a clearly audible rattling noise coming form inside the engine, So we switched it off, and long story short couldn't repair it so he took it to my local trusted garage.
Whilst the car was in being looked at I phoned the warranty company to inform them of the problem, I got apathetic responses, and when I finally spoke to the person I needed to, I was told to get the garage to phone them and get an authorisation code (no problem) I phoned the garage, and asked them to phone the warranty company when they diagnosed a fault.
A day later I got a call from the garage saying that they had retrieved the metal from within the cylinder and that it was okay to collect. I asked if they had called the warranty company to which they said no, as they could see it and frankly would've taken longer to get a code than retrieve the part from the engine. (IMO I do agree with them)
I paid 1.5 hours labour and left. Got 100yds down the road, misfiring again, turned it around, put it back in and the garage had a look.
I called the warranty company the next day informing them of what happened to which I was informed sarcastically that "due to work not being authorised we cannot pay for the repair" (again, annoying but can see their point) They did say that they would pass the information, along with the receipts to the supplying dealer for them to overview and have a look.
So I sent them all of the documentation that I had (and at the point I had the car back, with 2 new ignition coils, car now works lovely)
I sent that to them who then sent it onto the dealer. I gave them a week to have a look and phoned them asking about it, to which I got the standard (we haven't had any documents, but then tripped themselves up mentioning the coil packs when I hadn't said about them at all)
I asked them what they would like to do about this as the last people to touch the engine was them when they serviced it, and it appears to me, both AA patrols and the garage that because the spark plugs are iridium tipped and cost £25 each, they didn't change them nor screw them back in poorly, causing the "ticking" and was a direct factor which caused the spark plug damage (according to AA and garage)
I informed them that I would like some form of reimbursement due to me having to take emergency leave from work, and for the cost of repairs that was caused by them and they referred that if I had taken it to them they would've fixed it. And I said, due to me living over 30 miles away from the dealer this was not feasible at all, and they basically said they won't pay anything.
I'm just wondering where I stand on this?
Can I claim the sales of goods act, as it was a breach of contract due to them not changing the spark plugs which are a service item and on the service schedule?
thanks for taking the time to read it, and any help is greatly appreciated.
SFJ.
Bought a car from a dealer which came with a 3 month warranty, as a condition of sale the car was to have a full service conducted on the car. Picked the car up, checked for new oil, which there was so I drove off happy. A day after I noticed a "ticking" like noise coming from the engine bay itself. I spoke to the dealer who informed me that it was a characteristic of the engine (1.4, heavily turbocharged unit) and having only ever owned N/A and been around turbo diesels I took him on his word.
Fast forward 3 months (3 days short of exact purchase date) the car began to misfire, so I pulled over where I could, popped the bonnet and had a look to see if there was anything that had come off or immediately broken, which there wasn't. I called the AA who attended my car and as usual the car began to run properly again, all be it with the same ticking noise. When the AA patrol had a look at my car he diagnosed a cylinder 1 misfire, fine, took what he believed to be cylinder 1, (on drivers side, becomes relevant later) checked, found no fault, but immediately commented on the poor condition of the spark plugs, and asked me when the car was last serviced, to which I said when I bought the car. He then said that they weren't and needed changing soon, so as there was no fault then he carried on as did I.
The next day came around and as I was out for work, the car began to misfire again, so I immediately switched it off and coasted to a nearby parking spot, opened the bonnet, and called the AA. Second patrol comes out, diagnoses the same fault with the same cylinder, and suggested we change the spark plugs as fault had not disappeared when he showed up. He got some new ones, went to slot them in and came to cylinder 4 (nearest passenger side)instantly commented on how loose it was and when took it out saw the the electrode of the spark plug had melted/snapped and gone into the engine bay. He then realised that the my car fires non-sequentially (like a Clio apparently) We checked everything else over, cleared the OBD and started it up and immediately the "ticking" was gone, but there was a clearly audible rattling noise coming form inside the engine, So we switched it off, and long story short couldn't repair it so he took it to my local trusted garage.
Whilst the car was in being looked at I phoned the warranty company to inform them of the problem, I got apathetic responses, and when I finally spoke to the person I needed to, I was told to get the garage to phone them and get an authorisation code (no problem) I phoned the garage, and asked them to phone the warranty company when they diagnosed a fault.
A day later I got a call from the garage saying that they had retrieved the metal from within the cylinder and that it was okay to collect. I asked if they had called the warranty company to which they said no, as they could see it and frankly would've taken longer to get a code than retrieve the part from the engine. (IMO I do agree with them)
I paid 1.5 hours labour and left. Got 100yds down the road, misfiring again, turned it around, put it back in and the garage had a look.
I called the warranty company the next day informing them of what happened to which I was informed sarcastically that "due to work not being authorised we cannot pay for the repair" (again, annoying but can see their point) They did say that they would pass the information, along with the receipts to the supplying dealer for them to overview and have a look.
So I sent them all of the documentation that I had (and at the point I had the car back, with 2 new ignition coils, car now works lovely)
I sent that to them who then sent it onto the dealer. I gave them a week to have a look and phoned them asking about it, to which I got the standard (we haven't had any documents, but then tripped themselves up mentioning the coil packs when I hadn't said about them at all)
I asked them what they would like to do about this as the last people to touch the engine was them when they serviced it, and it appears to me, both AA patrols and the garage that because the spark plugs are iridium tipped and cost £25 each, they didn't change them nor screw them back in poorly, causing the "ticking" and was a direct factor which caused the spark plug damage (according to AA and garage)
I informed them that I would like some form of reimbursement due to me having to take emergency leave from work, and for the cost of repairs that was caused by them and they referred that if I had taken it to them they would've fixed it. And I said, due to me living over 30 miles away from the dealer this was not feasible at all, and they basically said they won't pay anything.
I'm just wondering where I stand on this?
Can I claim the sales of goods act, as it was a breach of contract due to them not changing the spark plugs which are a service item and on the service schedule?
thanks for taking the time to read it, and any help is greatly appreciated.
SFJ.
As often seems to happen with these things, you sorted it of your own accord and now want the originating garage to reimburse you after the event.
30 miles is not a big distance to travel.
Why should the garage pay AA/your trusted garage rates and your emergency time off when you didn't ask them to effect the repair in the first place?
If you're interested in Sale of Goods Act, it would require you to give them first dibs at rectifying the problem.
The lesson of these kind of situations is to communicate with the supplying dealer with a view to an amicable resolution. Get them to do any work and, if agreement can't be reached on cost, pay for it as asked to then if need be claim it back later through legal channels, if warranted.
Acting in haste and getting other people to do the work without proper consultation with the supplying dealer only introduces problems.
30 miles is not a big distance to travel.
Why should the garage pay AA/your trusted garage rates and your emergency time off when you didn't ask them to effect the repair in the first place?
If you're interested in Sale of Goods Act, it would require you to give them first dibs at rectifying the problem.
The lesson of these kind of situations is to communicate with the supplying dealer with a view to an amicable resolution. Get them to do any work and, if agreement can't be reached on cost, pay for it as asked to then if need be claim it back later through legal channels, if warranted.
Acting in haste and getting other people to do the work without proper consultation with the supplying dealer only introduces problems.
Can I summarise this, please?
You buy a car - a 1.4 turbo something of indeterminate age, mileage and price (sorry, these points matter).
After 3 months the car develops a misfire which is fixed by your garage after a couple of attempts.
The warranty company doesn't pay because the repair wasn't authorised, i.e., not within their terms. The reason given for not authorising it is that the repair was too small to bother authorising.
Had the car been taken to the garage, it would have been fixed. Had the car been serviced properly, it wouldn't have needed fixing.
SOGA would give you a possible remedy - a breach of contract claim that the car was not of satisfactory quality and/or as described (i.e., described as having been serviced). As you use the word 'condition' relating to the fact that you required the car to be serviced before sale, and the garage has failed to use reasonable care and skill, there is a potential breach of an implied term there as well.
So yes, the garage should have fixed the car.
However, because you live 30 miles away, you claim this wasn't feasible, despite your having taken time off work to arrange this. Additionally, the repair was so minor it wasn't worth authorising according to your garage. Therefore it might not have been worth taking time off.
So what it sounds like to me is that there is no dispute over primary liability but there is an issue in that you have incurred expenses without mitigating your loss, either by engaging with the warranty company (as you didn't comply with those terms) or by letting the garage fix it. Therefore the garage may be liable for your loss had you mitigated it - but it does sound as though that loss would be very small or non-existent compared to the still (probably minor) loss you have actually experienced.
Without numbers etc., it's hard to be confident but on the face of it, I'd be chalking this one up to experience.
You buy a car - a 1.4 turbo something of indeterminate age, mileage and price (sorry, these points matter).
After 3 months the car develops a misfire which is fixed by your garage after a couple of attempts.
The warranty company doesn't pay because the repair wasn't authorised, i.e., not within their terms. The reason given for not authorising it is that the repair was too small to bother authorising.
Had the car been taken to the garage, it would have been fixed. Had the car been serviced properly, it wouldn't have needed fixing.
SOGA would give you a possible remedy - a breach of contract claim that the car was not of satisfactory quality and/or as described (i.e., described as having been serviced). As you use the word 'condition' relating to the fact that you required the car to be serviced before sale, and the garage has failed to use reasonable care and skill, there is a potential breach of an implied term there as well.
So yes, the garage should have fixed the car.
However, because you live 30 miles away, you claim this wasn't feasible, despite your having taken time off work to arrange this. Additionally, the repair was so minor it wasn't worth authorising according to your garage. Therefore it might not have been worth taking time off.
So what it sounds like to me is that there is no dispute over primary liability but there is an issue in that you have incurred expenses without mitigating your loss, either by engaging with the warranty company (as you didn't comply with those terms) or by letting the garage fix it. Therefore the garage may be liable for your loss had you mitigated it - but it does sound as though that loss would be very small or non-existent compared to the still (probably minor) loss you have actually experienced.
Without numbers etc., it's hard to be confident but on the face of it, I'd be chalking this one up to experience.
You should have let the original dealer sort it out.
You might have some grounds for arguing that they didn't do the service.
But, did they specify exactly what the service was?
Did they say they'd change the plugs?
A service could just be an oil and filter change.
Maybe they did do the service.
The age and cost is relevant.
On a 3 year old Merc you might expect the service to include plugs if they are on the service plan.
On a 10 year old ford you probably wouldn't expect a dealer to stick to a service plan.
You might have some grounds for arguing that they didn't do the service.
But, did they specify exactly what the service was?
Did they say they'd change the plugs?
A service could just be an oil and filter change.
Maybe they did do the service.
The age and cost is relevant.
On a 3 year old Merc you might expect the service to include plugs if they are on the service plan.
On a 10 year old ford you probably wouldn't expect a dealer to stick to a service plan.
tenpenceshort said:
As often seems to happen with these things, you sorted it of your own accord and now want the originating garage to reimburse you after the event.
30 miles is not a big distance to travel.
Why should the garage pay AA/your trusted garage rates and your emergency time off when you didn't ask them to effect the repair in the first place?
If you're interested in Sale of Goods Act, it would require you to give them first dibs at rectifying the problem.
The lesson of these kind of situations is to communicate with the supplying dealer with a view to an amicable resolution. Get them to do any work and, if agreement can't be reached on cost, pay for it as asked to then if need be claim it back later through legal channels, if warranted.
Acting in haste and getting other people to do the work without proper consultation with the supplying dealer only introduces problems.
30 miles is a big distance to travel when you have no way of getting there, and there no feasible options to.30 miles is not a big distance to travel.
Why should the garage pay AA/your trusted garage rates and your emergency time off when you didn't ask them to effect the repair in the first place?
If you're interested in Sale of Goods Act, it would require you to give them first dibs at rectifying the problem.
The lesson of these kind of situations is to communicate with the supplying dealer with a view to an amicable resolution. Get them to do any work and, if agreement can't be reached on cost, pay for it as asked to then if need be claim it back later through legal channels, if warranted.
Acting in haste and getting other people to do the work without proper consultation with the supplying dealer only introduces problems.
I'm not after reimbursing for the time I had off of work, that's gone and that's not the garages problem.
I asked the garage I took the car too to call the warranty companies number, and as the part was there in front of them, they took it out without calling them, or informing me.
I acted in haste because I needed the car back ASAP as I need it for work, and had a very limited time frame.
I spoke to the warranty as soon as I got to a phone (mobile had died, plus 0800 number) and informed them straight away of what was going on, and they gave me the number.
I'm just wondering whether there are any comebacks as due to the dealers error, the car went wrong which cost me a lot of money to put right.
It's just a question to review whether it's worth pursuing or not
CYMR0 said:
Can I summarise this, please?
You buy a car - a 1.4 turbo something of indeterminate age, mileage and price (sorry, these points matter).
After 3 months the car develops a misfire which is fixed by your garage after a couple of attempts.
The warranty company doesn't pay because the repair wasn't authorised, i.e., not within their terms. The reason given for not authorising it is that the repair was too small to bother authorising.
Had the car been taken to the garage, it would have been fixed. Had the car been serviced properly, it wouldn't have needed fixing.
SOGA would give you a possible remedy - a breach of contract claim that the car was not of satisfactory quality and/or as described (i.e., described as having been serviced). As you use the word 'condition' relating to the fact that you required the car to be serviced before sale, and the garage has failed to use reasonable care and skill, there is a potential breach of an implied term there as well.
So yes, the garage should have fixed the car.
However, because you live 30 miles away, you claim this wasn't feasible, despite your having taken time off work to arrange this. Additionally, the repair was so minor it wasn't worth authorising according to your garage. Therefore it might not have been worth taking time off.
So what it sounds like to me is that there is no dispute over primary liability but there is an issue in that you have incurred expenses without mitigating your loss, either by engaging with the warranty company (as you didn't comply with those terms) or by letting the garage fix it. Therefore the garage may be liable for your loss had you mitigated it - but it does sound as though that loss would be very small or non-existent compared to the still (probably minor) loss you have actually experienced.
Without numbers etc., it's hard to be confident but on the face of it, I'd be chalking this one up to experience.
it's a 5 year old Fiat Grande Punto T-Jet. with 55,000 on the clock, bought for £4250.You buy a car - a 1.4 turbo something of indeterminate age, mileage and price (sorry, these points matter).
After 3 months the car develops a misfire which is fixed by your garage after a couple of attempts.
The warranty company doesn't pay because the repair wasn't authorised, i.e., not within their terms. The reason given for not authorising it is that the repair was too small to bother authorising.
Had the car been taken to the garage, it would have been fixed. Had the car been serviced properly, it wouldn't have needed fixing.
SOGA would give you a possible remedy - a breach of contract claim that the car was not of satisfactory quality and/or as described (i.e., described as having been serviced). As you use the word 'condition' relating to the fact that you required the car to be serviced before sale, and the garage has failed to use reasonable care and skill, there is a potential breach of an implied term there as well.
So yes, the garage should have fixed the car.
However, because you live 30 miles away, you claim this wasn't feasible, despite your having taken time off work to arrange this. Additionally, the repair was so minor it wasn't worth authorising according to your garage. Therefore it might not have been worth taking time off.
So what it sounds like to me is that there is no dispute over primary liability but there is an issue in that you have incurred expenses without mitigating your loss, either by engaging with the warranty company (as you didn't comply with those terms) or by letting the garage fix it. Therefore the garage may be liable for your loss had you mitigated it - but it does sound as though that loss would be very small or non-existent compared to the still (probably minor) loss you have actually experienced.
Without numbers etc., it's hard to be confident but on the face of it, I'd be chalking this one up to experience.
Snowboy said:
You should have let the original dealer sort it out.
You might have some grounds for arguing that they didn't do the service.
But, did they specify exactly what the service was?
Did they say they'd change the plugs?
A service could just be an oil and filter change.
Maybe they did do the service.
The age and cost is relevant.
On a 3 year old Merc you might expect the service to include plugs if they are on the service plan.
On a 10 year old ford you probably wouldn't expect a dealer to stick to a service plan.
I specifically stated a full service which included a cambelt and water pump, these were both done (I paid for parts admittedly) and got old parts in the car when I picked it up.You might have some grounds for arguing that they didn't do the service.
But, did they specify exactly what the service was?
Did they say they'd change the plugs?
A service could just be an oil and filter change.
Maybe they did do the service.
The age and cost is relevant.
On a 3 year old Merc you might expect the service to include plugs if they are on the service plan.
On a 10 year old ford you probably wouldn't expect a dealer to stick to a service plan.
I should've let them I agree, but I couldn't have them spending 2 weeks to sort it as I had only just managed to shift some upcoming holiday around to cover the time off as I couldn't get to work/do my job and the dealer was 30 miles away very north of Bristol and family and friends work all day meaning I couldn't grab a lift to them, whereas the garage was a 20 minute walk away.
Adrian E said:
I'd be wondering what the state of the piston top and bore are if there's been an iridium tip bouncing about in there for a while! Can't imagine it's done the bore much good, nor the valves.
Luckily it got caught in time, and the piston top nor the bore took any damage, and most surprisingly, the electrode got stuck in the exhaust valve spring, and was recovered from there, and it caused no further damage whatsoever. So I was incredibly lucky. I was prepared for a cylinder head off, £2000 repair bill, then I would be chasing it a lot further, but A couple of hundred quid I can take a loss, but I'm purely wondering whether if I did decide to, whether I would have a credible claim or not.JimmyConwayNW said:
It's very difficult for a car sales business to fix things without being told of the problem.
We do not have crystal balls although most are happy to help. 30 miles is local.
Surely, speaking to the warranty company they would've told them that there was a fault with one of their cars? 30 miles is a fair old distance when you've got to walk. We do not have crystal balls although most are happy to help. 30 miles is local.
In that case I'd agree with above - it's a relatively small bill and the warranty company are within their rights not to pay out. There's a process to follow for a reason and I know most garages hate dealing with warranty companies who make life difficult for them in most instances. By having a dig about and establishing a relatively small cost was likely I'm assuming your garage assumed you'd be happy enough.
Most services don't include plugs - unless the scheduled service indicated plugs should be done, or a box has been ticked to say they have been changed, the garage are fine to do an oil service and send it on its way.
I'd agree 30 miles is no distance to return it - AA would happily cart it there in the circumstances.
We've got a minor niggle with our new to us car (wobbly mirror glass at motorway speed) which the garage we bought from have asked us to have sorted locally. If the main dealer won't deal with it under warranty, as it's under 3 years old, the dealer has said they'll cover any costs. They're about 75 miles from us so it's less hassle for both parties
Most services don't include plugs - unless the scheduled service indicated plugs should be done, or a box has been ticked to say they have been changed, the garage are fine to do an oil service and send it on its way.
I'd agree 30 miles is no distance to return it - AA would happily cart it there in the circumstances.
We've got a minor niggle with our new to us car (wobbly mirror glass at motorway speed) which the garage we bought from have asked us to have sorted locally. If the main dealer won't deal with it under warranty, as it's under 3 years old, the dealer has said they'll cover any costs. They're about 75 miles from us so it's less hassle for both parties
Mr SFJ said:
Luckily it got caught in time, and the piston top nor the bore took any damage, and most surprisingly, the electrode got stuck in the exhaust valve spring, and was recovered from there...
That is most surprising - astonishing, even, as the spring is in the cambox and not in the exhaust port where the electrode would be ejected. It would be remarkable if it were anywhere other than still in the combustion chamber, in fact.I smell bulls
t.littleredrooster said:
That is most surprising - astonishing, even, as the spring is in the cambox and not in the exhaust port where the electrode would be ejected. It would be remarkable if it were anywhere other than still in the combustion chamber, in fact.
I smell bullst.
I was thinking the same but had just held back from saying so.I smell bulls
t.littleredrooster said:
Mr SFJ said:
Luckily it got caught in time, and the piston top nor the bore took any damage, and most surprisingly, the electrode got stuck in the exhaust valve spring, and was recovered from there...
That is most surprising - astonishing, even, as the spring is in the cambox and not in the exhaust port where the electrode would be ejected. It would be remarkable if it were anywhere other than still in the combustion chamber, in fact.I smell bulls
t.98elise said:
Agreed, its virtually impossible for the electrode to end up in the valve spring. It would have to take some very special circumstances to achieve that!
It wouldn't do it on its own (unless it could teleport itself through the cylinder head 
, or unless there is a MASSIVE amount of wear to the exhaust valve guide and the electrode fluked its way up there as well as there being massive oil consumption and no view out of the rear view mirror when driving due to oil smoke), let's put it like that? 
Anyway, OP, read a post I made yesterday (or was it in the early hours of this morning
?) on a very similar thread, to see what SOGA says about your situation (and plug in your own figures ) .Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff