Fecking lazy / stupid / incompetent solicitors.

Fecking lazy / stupid / incompetent solicitors.

Author
Discussion

blueg33

35,567 posts

223 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Hmm. If contracts had exchanged then the buyer has failed to perform under the contract and there will be a remedy but its normally only interest at base rate plus around 4%. Unless the property is millions of £'s this will be nominal.

If the failure is down to the buyers solicitors, the buyer needs to complain big time and raise it with the mortgage company, but IMO you should definitely complain to the SRA, lawyers hate the SRA going through their paperwork and compliance

Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
[quote=blueg33]

You can make a complaint to the Compliance Partner of the firm
You can make a complaint to the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority)
You can make a complaint to the Law Society


/quote]
No he can't - he is not their client.

+ The Law Society doesn't deal with complaints anymore.

If the Buyer has exchanged but failed to complete then the buyer will be liable to pay damages in the usual way.

Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
rlw said:
A couple of points I think.

If anyone needs to complain, it's the OP's parents' buyer and I don't believe that anyone else really can, although I may be wrong and the authority writing a new complaints handling manual for the Law Society (who normally sits beside me here) has gone out so I cannot confirm this.

On solicitors generally, in the last thirty odd years, I reckon that I have worked in more firms than anyone else on this site, apart from a BT engineer or a photocopier salesman. I can list over 120 firms where I have worked in one way or another, either in the accounts department directly, or training or troubleshooting. Some of those firms have been the most disorganized offices I have ever been in and some have been the most efficient, smoothest operation you might encounter. In every case, in conveyancing transactions, the principals and fee earners have always bust a gut to make sure that stuff happens on time, every time, without exception. They have always done their very fking best to make it happen, frequently against all the odds, It's what they do.

Some st is outside their control - morons who don't return paperwork or who won't pay a bank charge, banks and building societies that forget to send the money in advance or send a cheque which arrives on completion day, last minute (necessarily) searches revealing that someone has gone bankrupt in the interim - and so on. For our move before last, our purchaser, on the day of exchange, asked us to knock £2000 of the asking price. I told her to fk off and the whole chain collapsed.

In the OP's case, I doubt that the holdup is solely down to the solicitors and is probably a combination of them, the lender and the client.

Re charges, I am in the middle of completing PII proposals for a number of firms, all with good claims records and no issues. I reckon that each form will take at least two days to complete properly. Early estimations show that the firms in question will pay insurance premiums of at least £400 for every conveyancing transaction they undertake. And these are the very good firms, so those with a poor record will probably be paying closer to £600/£700 per transaction.

Knock that off the fees you pay and then look at the charges in a slightly different light.
How dare you come on here talking sense redcard That is not the PH Way.

blueg33

35,567 posts

223 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Bluebarge said:
blueg33 said:
You can make a complaint to the Compliance Partner of the firm
You can make a complaint to the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority)
You can make a complaint to the Law Society


/quote]
No he can't - he is not their client.

+ The Law Society doesn't deal with complaints anymore.

If the Buyer has exchanged but failed to complete then the buyer will be liable to pay damages in the usual way.
Yes he can complain to the SRA. I have done it myself with regard to a firm acting for another party.

Law Society don't formally handle complaints, but they do pass them on.

Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Bluebarge said:
blueg33 said:
You can make a complaint to the Compliance Partner of the firm
You can make a complaint to the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority)
You can make a complaint to the Law Society


/quote]
No he can't - he is not their client.

+ The Law Society doesn't deal with complaints anymore.

If the Buyer has exchanged but failed to complete then the buyer will be liable to pay damages in the usual way.
Yes he can complain to the SRA. I have done it myself with regard to a firm acting for another party.

Law Society don't formally handle complaints, but they do pass them on.
No you can't.

The SRA do not deal with complaints about poor service - those are dealt with by the Legal Ombudsman.

The Legal Ombudsman deals with complaints from the person who hired the solicitor, only after the client has exhausted that firm's internal complaints procedure.

The OP is not the conveyancing firm's client (it appears they are a bulk conveyancing outfit rather than a firm of solicitors) and he is not even a party to the transaction, so he has no locus standi.

Whatever you did previously was a waste of a stamp, and any spurious correspondence sent to public regulators wastes their time and costs and inevitably results in (a) more taxes to pay for the regulator and/or (b) a worse service for those who have a genuine complaint.


blueg33

35,567 posts

223 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Bluebarge said:
blueg33 said:
Bluebarge said:
blueg33 said:
You can make a complaint to the Compliance Partner of the firm
You can make a complaint to the SRA (Solicitors Regulation Authority)
You can make a complaint to the Law Society


/quote]
No he can't - he is not their client.

+ The Law Society doesn't deal with complaints anymore.

If the Buyer has exchanged but failed to complete then the buyer will be liable to pay damages in the usual way.
Yes he can complain to the SRA. I have done it myself with regard to a firm acting for another party.

Law Society don't formally handle complaints, but they do pass them on.
No you can't.

The SRA do not deal with complaints about poor service - those are dealt with by the Legal Ombudsman.

The Legal Ombudsman deals with complaints from the person who hired the solicitor, only after the client has exhausted that firm's internal complaints procedure.

The OP is not the conveyancing firm's client (it appears they are a bulk conveyancing outfit rather than a firm of solicitors) and he is not even a party to the transaction, so he has no locus standi.

Whatever you did previously was a waste of a stamp, and any spurious correspondence sent to public regulators wastes their time and costs and inevitably results in (a) more taxes to pay for the regulator and/or (b) a worse service for those who have a genuine complaint.
My complaint was made initially by telephone and then followed up by email. The SRA followed it up with the firm in question and kept me updated on the report and outcome.

The complaint was different from this case, in that my complaint was that I had received threatening letters where by the firm was supporting its client in carrying actions that are illegal under the Provisions of Freedoms Act and the Highways Act. The client did in fact break these laws and the firm in question supported the action.

My view is that its always worth complaining if a solicitor is impacting on your transaction as a result of incompetence. But you will note from my posts that I also said that the buyer should be encouraged to pursue a complaint

Spare tyre

9,456 posts

129 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
When I bought my previous house (no28) the solicitor notified the land registry that I'd bought next door. (No29)

I didn't realise until 5 years later when I went to sell my house, except as I couldn't as the owner according to the land registry was the previous owner still and on paper I owned next door

You try getting a solicitor to sort a mistake out 5 years later!


Cost me an awful lot of time and money sorting it out, not to mention the stress

Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
My complaint was made initially by telephone and then followed up by email. The SRA followed it up with the firm in question and kept me updated on the report and outcome.

The complaint was different from this case, in that my complaint was that I had received threatening letters where by the firm was supporting its client in carrying actions that are illegal under the Provisions of Freedoms Act and the Highways Act. The client did in fact break these laws and the firm in question supported the action.

My view is that its always worth complaining if a solicitor is impacting on your transaction as a result of incompetence. But you will note from my posts that I also said that the buyer should be encouraged to pursue a complaint
Then your complaint was absolutely justified and you did the right thing.

However, in this case, the OP should confine himself to ranting on PH, since he has no direct interest in the matter, his parents' solicitors are already dealing with it, and any correspondence he sends will be a waste of everyone's time and money including yours and mine, as humble taxpayers.

driverrob

4,687 posts

202 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Polite 'rocket up the arse' letter to our solicitors today, who are handling sale and purchase.
For weeks we've just been guessing at the various reasons why nothing much seemed to be happening, apart from us filling in forms, having a survey done, sending queries etc.
Today I learn from our estate agents that both the vendor and buyer and their solicitors are querying why nothing is happening in the middle of the chain - i.e. our solicitors.
I find it easier to hold my temper in an email than on the phone, but it may come to that.

Bluebarge

4,519 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I wont be sending any letters, and have never stated that I will.
And I never stated that you would, but that was the advice you were being given.

rlw

3,321 posts

236 months

Thursday 24th July 2014
quotequote all
Bluebarge said:
rlw said:
A couple of points I think.

If anyone needs to complain, it's the OP's parents' buyer and I don't believe that anyone else really can, although I may be wrong and the authority writing a new complaints handling manual for the Law Society (who normally sits beside me here) has gone out so I cannot confirm this.

On solicitors generally, in the last thirty odd years, I reckon that I have worked in more firms than anyone else on this site, apart from a BT engineer or a photocopier salesman. I can list over 120 firms where I have worked in one way or another, either in the accounts department directly, or training or troubleshooting. Some of those firms have been the most disorganized offices I have ever been in and some have been the most efficient, smoothest operation you might encounter. In every case, in conveyancing transactions, the principals and fee earners have always bust a gut to make sure that stuff happens on time, every time, without exception. They have always done their very fking best to make it happen, frequently against all the odds, It's what they do.

Some st is outside their control - morons who don't return paperwork or who won't pay a bank charge, banks and building societies that forget to send the money in advance or send a cheque which arrives on completion day, last minute (necessarily) searches revealing that someone has gone bankrupt in the interim - and so on. For our move before last, our purchaser, on the day of exchange, asked us to knock £2000 of the asking price. I told her to fk off and the whole chain collapsed.

In the OP's case, I doubt that the holdup is solely down to the solicitors and is probably a combination of them, the lender and the client.

Re charges, I am in the middle of completing PII proposals for a number of firms, all with good claims records and no issues. I reckon that each form will take at least two days to complete properly. Early estimations show that the firms in question will pay insurance premiums of at least £400 for every conveyancing transaction they undertake. And these are the very good firms, so those with a poor record will probably be paying closer to £600/£700 per transaction.

Knock that off the fees you pay and then look at the charges in a slightly different light.
How dare you come on here talking sense redcard That is not the PH Way.
Apologies. Clearly all solicitors are incompetent and the public is never wrong.

driverrob

4,687 posts

202 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
driverrob said:
Polite 'rocket up the arse' letter to our solicitors today, who are handling sale and purchase.
For weeks we've just been guessing at the various reasons why nothing much seemed to be happening, apart from us filling in forms, having a survey done, sending queries etc.
Today I learn from our estate agents that both the vendor and buyer and their solicitors are querying why nothing is happening in the middle of the chain - i.e. our solicitors.
I find it easier to hold my temper in an email than on the phone, but it may come to that.
Well, that letter (plus one to the MD of our Estate Agents, who recommended them) seems to have had an effect. Yesterday we had, electronically, eleven documents !! One was the Fixtures and Fittings list, signed by the vendors 7 weeks ago! The contract is factually wrong and will have to be corrected but at least we're making progress.

singlecoil

33,307 posts

245 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
A hideous curse on his solicitor.

blueg33

35,567 posts

223 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Time for the SRA. Or switch sols, refuse to pay this one

blueg33

35,567 posts

223 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Sorry - I forgot that.

I am just in solicitor sacking mode today. Just told one firm to go forth and multiply. Dopey sods managed to let all 3 partners dealing with my stuff go on leave at the same time. Two time critical deals have stalled as a result.

pork911

7,086 posts

182 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Sorry - I forgot that.

I am just in solicitor sacking mode today. Just told one firm to go forth and multiply. Dopey sods managed to let all 3 partners dealing with my stuff go on leave at the same time. Two time critical deals have stalled as a result.
i think they are trying to tell you something wink

ShortShift811

532 posts

141 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
rlw said:
Bluebarge said:
rlw said:
A couple of points I think.

If anyone needs to complain, it's the OP's parents' buyer and I don't believe that anyone else really can, although I may be wrong and the authority writing a new complaints handling manual for the Law Society (who normally sits beside me here) has gone out so I cannot confirm this.

On solicitors generally, in the last thirty odd years, I reckon that I have worked in more firms than anyone else on this site, apart from a BT engineer or a photocopier salesman. I can list over 120 firms where I have worked in one way or another, either in the accounts department directly, or training or troubleshooting. Some of those firms have been the most disorganized offices I have ever been in and some have been the most efficient, smoothest operation you might encounter. In every case, in conveyancing transactions, the principals and fee earners have always bust a gut to make sure that stuff happens on time, every time, without exception. They have always done their very fking best to make it happen, frequently against all the odds, It's what they do.

Some st is outside their control - morons who don't return paperwork or who won't pay a bank charge, banks and building societies that forget to send the money in advance or send a cheque which arrives on completion day, last minute (necessarily) searches revealing that someone has gone bankrupt in the interim - and so on. For our move before last, our purchaser, on the day of exchange, asked us to knock £2000 of the asking price. I told her to fk off and the whole chain collapsed.

In the OP's case, I doubt that the holdup is solely down to the solicitors and is probably a combination of them, the lender and the client.

Re charges, I am in the middle of completing PII proposals for a number of firms, all with good claims records and no issues. I reckon that each form will take at least two days to complete properly. Early estimations show that the firms in question will pay insurance premiums of at least £400 for every conveyancing transaction they undertake. And these are the very good firms, so those with a poor record will probably be paying closer to £600/£700 per transaction.

Knock that off the fees you pay and then look at the charges in a slightly different light.
How dare you come on here talking sense redcard That is not the PH Way.
Apologies. Clearly all solicitors are incompetent and the public is never wrong.
wavey Specialist PII broker for Solicitors here and I'd echo the above: I know how hard my clients work to complete as many conveyancing transactions as they can for clients every week.

What do you do rlw?


outnumbered

4,067 posts

233 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
kapiteinlangzaam said:
Still no real progress with my parents situation.

Lots of fake apologies over the phone, and more broken promises, but still no documents.

Once its all resolved, they will be pursuing (along with the buyers) the solicitors by every means possible.
The key question was whether they'd actually exchanged contracts to move on Date X or not. It sounded from an earlier reply like you weren't sure. If they had exchanged contracts, and the agreed completion date has been put off, your parents have real cause for complaint.

If they haven't yet exchanged but it's just "everyone was aiming to move on date X" then unfortunately they won't get anywhere, they've taken their own risk by committing to move-related spending w/o a firm completion date.

rlw

3,321 posts

236 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
ShortShift811 said:
wavey Specialist PII broker for Solicitors here and I'd echo the above: I know how hard my clients work to complete as many conveyancing transactions as they can for clients every week.

What do you do rlw?
Run my own firm specializing in solicitors accounts - doing it and advising on it, practice management, lexcel and legal aid quality standards.
Her indoors is ex LAB/LSC and has done all sorts of fancy stuff including writing the definitive guides on compliance with lexcel and SQM and is now doing a another manual for the Law Society.

You can guess how exciting our life is can't you............

85Carrera

3,503 posts

236 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
is there a body you can make a complaint to? Might as well create them some flak
There is, but they are a waste of time.

I am a solicitor myself and employed a reasonably well known provincial firm (who I had previously used and been very happy with, but in a different practice area) who completely fked up/couldn't be bothered.

I complained to the ombudsman but they found that although the firm in question had failed to act in accordance with my clear, written instructions (with fees paid up front) (amongst other failings) which resulted in direct losses to me, the firm had acted reasonably.

This was an eye opener to me and, as I pointed out to the ombudsman, the reason why the profession was held in such contempt by the public. Needless to say, I have not had a response to that observation.