RE: Audi RS5 TDI: Driven

[Clivey]

Welshbeef said:

Please don't call the M3 a 3 series as that diminishes the M car a lot it is not a run of the mill vehicle whereas 335d/i certainly are run of the mill

It's not just a 3-Series. It's a Marks & Spencer 3-Series.

Your comments re. restricting the 335i/d to maintain the gap to the M3 are on the money IMO. I think that's the only reason the 335i hasn't gained the 320BHP version of the six from the M135i/235i (or a more powerful engine still). I remember the review of the 435i here and it was said that it didn't feel anywhere near as good as the 1 & 2.

[TB Rich]

Welshbeef said:

The 335i F30 is slower than the 335d F30 fact.
Its 0-62 slower
0-100mph slower
Less power
Less bhp/tonne
Slower in every speed increment.

I must be bored to look this st up.

335i (auto), 306 PS, 1595KG = 191 PS/tonne
335d (auto xdrive), 313 PS, 1705KG = 183 PS/tonne

335i 0-62 5.5 / 0-1000m 24.4
335d 0-62 4.8 / 0-1000m 23.8

335d has a 0.7 advantage to 62 (xdrive appears to offer 0.5 e.g - 335i xdrive is 5.0 0-62).
335d after 1000m has a 0.6 advantage.

So basically maintained it's slight 4wd based advantage.

Results are so close I'd call it even stevens, so unless you are doing 20k+ mileage I'd take the 335i it'll be the more rewarding drive (based on my armchair journalism). And if I was doing 20k+ mileage I'd take a 320d Touring thank you, if you're going to compromise by getting diesel, in for a penny in for pound!!

[Wills2]

TB Rich said:

Results are so close I'd call it even stevens, so unless you are doing 20k+ mileage I'd take the 335i it'll be the more rewarding drive (based on my armchair journalism). And if I was doing 20k+ mileage I'd take a 320d Touring thank you, if you're going to compromise by getting diesel, in for a penny in for pound!!

I'd say if you're going to have to suffer a diesel might as well be a fast one.

[Prawnboy]

i am genuinely surprised BMW make a more powerful cooking derv model than petrol, (thank fk electric cars are getting better)

as mentioned above BMW do a 320hp version of the 3 litre petrol but don't drop it in the 3 series for some reason.

i guess people just are not buying petrol cars new in meaningful numbers. skinflints.



and also, can you buy a 335d new in the UK? i cant find it on the website.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/3/saloon/2...

and i still don't buy the mileage argument to 'force' you into a diesel. It's a choice .
i do over 18k a year to work and back and i aint going near the black pump.

[Welshbeef]

Prawnboy said:

i am genuinely surprised BMW make a more powerful cooking derv model than petrol, (thank fk electric cars are getting better)

as mentioned above BMW do a 320hp version of the 3 litre petrol but don't drop it in the 3 series for some reason.

i guess people just are not buying petrol cars new in meaningful numbers. skinflints.



and also, can you buy a 335d new in the UK? i cant find it on the website.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/3/saloon/2...

and i still don't buy the mileage argument to 'force' you into a diesel. It's a choice .
i do over 18k a year to work and back and i aint going near the black pump.

BMW do the official PPK upgrade to the vehicles so 335i can go faster the 335d official has not yet been offered

[dukebox9reg]

Prawnboy said:

i am genuinely surprised BMW make a more powerful cooking derv model than petrol, (thank fk electric cars are getting better)

as mentioned above BMW do a 320hp version of the 3 litre petrol but don't drop it in the 3 series for some reason.

i guess people just are not buying petrol cars new in meaningful numbers. skinflints.



and also, can you buy a 335d new in the UK? i cant find it on the website.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/3/saloon/2...

and i still don't buy the mileage argument to 'force' you into a diesel. It's a choice .
i do over 18k a year to work and back and i aint going near the black pump.

You'd take a car that makes no noise and has only 1 gear over a diesel?

Or your referring to the newest crops of hybrids 918 style etc?

[Prawnboy]

dukebox9reg said:

You'd take a car that makes no noise and has only 1 gear over a diesel?

Or your referring to the newest crops of hybrids 918 style etc?

I mean that all the money/fuel savers will move to electric eventually, thereby killing the reason for these diesels, with the petrol lovers still buying the petrol versions.

(my dream anyway)

and to be fair i think a silent 1 geared powerplant is much more suited to 'executive' cars than a 'sporty' diesel with flappy paddles.

[jamieduff1981]

dukebox9reg said:

Prawnboy said:

i am genuinely surprised BMW make a more powerful cooking derv model than petrol, (thank fk electric cars are getting better)

as mentioned above BMW do a 320hp version of the 3 litre petrol but don't drop it in the 3 series for some reason.

i guess people just are not buying petrol cars new in meaningful numbers. skinflints.



and also, can you buy a 335d new in the UK? i cant find it on the website.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/en_GB/new-vehicles/3/saloon/2...

and i still don't buy the mileage argument to 'force' you into a diesel. It's a choice .
i do over 18k a year to work and back and i aint going near the black pump.

You'd take a car that makes no noise and has only 1 gear over a diesel?

Or your referring to the newest crops of hybrids 918 style etc?

In all seriousness, I might. Electric technology is new, fascinating and offers a whole new delivery and experience - more like jet delivery than piston engine delivery. Diesels have just never floated my boat - compression ignition just doesn't do it for me. I don't like anything about it - the noise, the smell, the lack of refinement, the delivery. I hate everything about diesel engines actually now I think about it. They're good for vans, lorries and trains but they're not about enjoyment, they're just commercial tools. I personally can't see me ever holding anything with a diesel engine as some object of desire. So yes, I'd probably give a sporty electric car a chance over a sporty diesel.

[Welshbeef]

Prawnboy said:

I mean that all the money/fuel savers will move to electric eventually, thereby killing the reason for these diesels, with the petrol lovers still buying the petrol versions.

(my dream anyway)

and to be fair i think a silent 1 geared powerplant is much more suited to 'executive' cars than a 'sporty' diesel with flappy paddles.

Flappy paddles.... Nearly all autos have these be they sports cars or white goods transport. Have you actually driven a good diesel? As in modern c£40-60k new vehicle or is your view purely assumption.

[Prawnboy]

Welshbeef said:

Flappy paddles.... Nearly all autos have these be they sports cars or white goods transport. Have you actually driven a good diesel? As in modern c£40-60k new vehicle or is your view purely assumption.

2 recently

driven my old dears Evoke diesel (200 miles to cornwall) with the nine speed box, does that count?
the car pulls well and makes excellent mpg for the size and weight. It is also reviewed as being one of the more refined derv cars at idle, (same engine is in the jaguar XF).
But it is not as refined as my 12 year old merc, and if your spending 45K on an executive type car and it's not as refind as a 12 year old car of a similar price, how can that be progress.
the engine completely spoils the car, at every traffic light engine stop/start moment the whole thing shudders. good car-st engine.

and my mates golf GTD- year old, again the engine does every thing you ask of it, but just a little worse than a GTI. But at least he admits he would rather the GTI but wont pay for the running.

have you tried a nice petrol engine recently?

[JonnyVTEC]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-petrol-bm...

Perfect timing!

[Wills2]

JonnyVTEC said:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-petrol-bm...

Perfect timing!

Very interesting, M3 less than a car length ahead at 100mph, D3 better brakes and faster round that handling circuit.

Disappointing for the M car.

But I do wish Sutters would stop with the misinformation regarding the interiors of Alpina cars. He does it on every review, as standard the D3 gets cheap Dakota leather same as a 520d, you have to spend 5-7k to get the lavalina stuff.

[Wills2]

Prawnboy said:

have you tried a nice petrol engine recently?

I'll chime in, I've gone S54 - S65 - 3.8 flat 6 (911) - S65 and picked up a F31 335d today and you know what...

It's not bad, not bad at all. Totally different to a highly tuned high revving straight 6, flat 6 or V8 but in no way could you describe it as a dog.

It even likes to rev out (honestly!)

I understand your point of view though but I've turned to the dark side to see if I can get on with this kind of engine (Performance/MPG combo) time will tell.

[Welshbeef]

JonnyVTEC said:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-petrol-bm...

Perfect timing!

Wow I didn't expect that - both rwd the D3 way down on power yet neck and neck to 100mph and loses by not even half a car length. Hugely impressive especially as this is the fastest ever M3. The D3 would beat the E92 M3.

[TB Rich]

Welshbeef said:

JonnyVTEC said:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/video-petrol-bm...

Perfect timing!

Wow I didn't expect that - both rwd the D3 way down on power yet neck and neck to 100mph and loses by not even half a car length. Hugely impressive especially as this is the fastest ever M3. The D3 would beat the E92 M3.

Indeed, very impressive result from the D3. Perhaps some diesel halo models are needed and Audi has hit the ball out the park this time??
Interesting you mention the E92 though. I couldn't care if the D3 could tear it a new-one, the E92 for me is much more desirable (far more than the new M4 too). Once you can pick up a competition pack car for about 25k I'm hoping that'll coincide with me being able to afford one. Such a cool car and the engine plays a massive part of that. A diesel would never get the same emotional desire however competent it was.

[Clivey]

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder which car would be consistently faster / faster once you've "learnt it" in the majority of situations.

An alternative viewpoint though is that it really doesn't matter. TBH the latest gen don't appeal to me as much as the E46 CS / CSL and I think the obsession with numbers is killing the character of performance cars. The shame of it is that in this climate, new cars need them to be compromised as a "driving machine" in order to be semi-affordable to run or acceptable to the tree-hugging contingent...but if you gave a real enthusiast carte blanche to create the "Ultimate Driving Machine", I don't think turbos* etc. etc. would get a look in. Diesel? Forget it.

*They suit some performance cars down to the ground but to most, performance BMWs are about NA engines. Until the tech improves to the point where you can't tell the car's turbocharged from behind the wheel, the turbo engine still won't be "the same" for some of us.

[Waitey]

I think my standard 335d x drive is fast enough for most situations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mS3pGLqqZY

[zeppelin101]

Clivey said:

*They suit some performance cars down to the ground but to most, performance BMWs are about NA engines. Until the tech improves to the point where you can't tell the car's turbocharged from behind the wheel, the turbo engine still won't be "the same" for some of us.

The e-booster in this car gets pretty close to that. I drove a demo vehicle with one on that had an overly large turbo on to demonstrate the capabilities and they are mighty impressive. The thing that surprised me the most was the difference in a standing start. It is quite remarkable how much of an effect it has to the overall performance feel.

[Lost soul]

Prawnboy said:

i am genuinely surprised BMW make a more powerful cooking derv model than petrol, (thank fk electric cars are getting better)

So are you saying you prefer electric cars over diesels ???

[Welshbeef]

Waitey said:

I think my standard 335d x drive is fast enough for most situations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mS3pGLqqZY

What do you get as a 0-100mph time?