RE: Audi RS5 TDI: Driven
Discussion
zeppelin101 said:
The e-booster in this car gets pretty close to that. I drove a demo vehicle with one on that had an overly large turbo on to demonstrate the capabilities and they are mighty impressive. The thing that surprised me the most was the difference in a standing start. It is quite remarkable how much of an effect it has to the overall performance feel.
Which car is that?Don't get me wrong, an obviously turbocharged engine is part of the appeal of some cars. It's just that (IMO at least) BMWs performance engines are generally all about that furious charge to the redline. Even the "baby" M54B22 2.2 in my 320i has a lovely character and makes a nice noise, especially from 5,500rpm to the limiter. S54 "big Daddy" version of the engine is, without exaggeration, awesome.
Compare the E46 M3 with the new M4; which one do you think will be the most sought after in say, 30 years?
Citman said:
I have to wonder just what progress needs to be made for some people to be impressed. When I passed my test in '92, diesels were things like the 2.3D Sierra, shoving out something woeful like 68bhp, and they only ever came in base spec. State of the art was something like the 1.9TD PSA lump with a whole 90bhp. 100bhp per litre was the stuff of very expensive cars indeed.
Now your bog standard 2.0 diesel repmobile routinely punts out close to 200 bhp and can realistically sip a gallon of fuel only every 50 miles.
Get a grip. No one is forcing anyone to buy it, there are still petrol options for all bar a few middling rep hatches and saloons. Petrol and diesel tech is becoming increasingly interchangeable, both borrowing off each other in the pursuit of eeking out another few years of green acceptability for the internal combustion engine - yes, they're incredibly complicated now, but 30 years ago, it was rust that would kill them off after relatively short lives, and used cars are now so cheap as to be almost disposable anyway.
And I remember driving a 1.6 Golf Diesel not long after passing my test in 1990, and that had less power than a Sierra 2.3D.Now your bog standard 2.0 diesel repmobile routinely punts out close to 200 bhp and can realistically sip a gallon of fuel only every 50 miles.
Get a grip. No one is forcing anyone to buy it, there are still petrol options for all bar a few middling rep hatches and saloons. Petrol and diesel tech is becoming increasingly interchangeable, both borrowing off each other in the pursuit of eeking out another few years of green acceptability for the internal combustion engine - yes, they're incredibly complicated now, but 30 years ago, it was rust that would kill them off after relatively short lives, and used cars are now so cheap as to be almost disposable anyway.
I remember taking delivery of a brand new 386DX40 PC with a whole 2MB of RAM in 1994.
I remember playing Tomb Raider on a PS1 in 1997.
I remember thinking my MK2 Golf GTI 16V was bonkers fast in 1995.
It's called progress. Frankly, if diesels weren't where they are now because of progress, some car maker bosses & senior technicians should be fired.
The same could be said of petrol. Back in the 80s & 90s, 8:1 compression and rich as f@ck were the order of the day for a turbo engine. Now we have up to 10:1 compression and lambda 1 in boost, and we don't have 100 octane 5 star anymore.
As for the RS5, it's interesting tech, but it's too little, too late. With the advent of full electric closer than we think, car makers have had their shot at turning us to sporty diesels, but they failed. The RS5 will appeal to the nerds and is very befitting of the digital age, but the charismatic petrol engines of days gone by were just far too emotive. Derv can never compete with that. It has no soul and it has no character. It's instantly forgettable and will always be the fuel that transports our groceries and ferries reps around the M25.
Lost soul said:
I am amazed that people on here seem to prefer electric cars to diesels !!!
Why? They generally have a better torque curve, better throttle response, better refinement, better packaging, less complexity and (probably) lower running costs... the only things a diesel seems to offer over an EV is greater range and a lower purchase price which are generally factors that force people to begrudgingly choose a car rather than make them like it as such. kambites said:
Lost soul said:
I am amazed that people on here seem to prefer electric cars to diesels !!!
Why? They generally have a better torque curve, better throttle response, better refinement, less complexity and (probably) lower running costs... the only things a diesel seems to offer over an EV is greater range and a lower purchase price which are generally factors that force people to begrudgingly choose a car rather than make them like it as such. Lost soul said:
At the moment electric cars are crap and can not even get close to a decent D on
peformance
peformance
Is that a serious comment? How many diesels can match a Model-S for performance at UK road speeds? There aren't very many performance oriented EVs yet, but they are starting to appear and are generally pretty damned quick when they do.
kambites said:
Is that a serious comment? How many diesels can match a Model-S for performance at UK road speeds? There aren't very many performance oriented EVs yet, but they are starting to appear and are generally pretty damned quick when they do.
Lost soul said:
At the moment electric cars are crap and can not even get close to a decent D on
peformance
i think you need to read up on tesla and the like.peformance
electric cars are faster, and more refined, and cheaper to 'fuel' than diesel. the down side is range, but once that improves i see company car lists filling up with them and people dumping their dervs.
Lost soul - I think the vision for many of us is the electric car for the day to day work and petrol of the weekends. The ease of use of EV as well as the tech is massively appealing. I have owned one diesel - never again.
Hybrids and full EVs will replace diesel - and petrol cars will still be sold after the diesels have fallen out of popularity.
Ultimately performance cars will combine electric and petrol. Look at the P1 and 918 to see what can and has been achieved.
Diesel is for trains, commercial vehicles, agricultural vehicles and generators. Its a filthy fuel.
Hybrids and full EVs will replace diesel - and petrol cars will still be sold after the diesels have fallen out of popularity.
Ultimately performance cars will combine electric and petrol. Look at the P1 and 918 to see what can and has been achieved.
Diesel is for trains, commercial vehicles, agricultural vehicles and generators. Its a filthy fuel.
Welshbeef said:
Lost soul said:
What the hell is a model S , and good luck with any longer distance trek
Oh dear you are behind the curve. The Model S Tesla is nearly as quick as the F10 BMW M5 down the 1/4 mile and has 300mile range full electric
And remember these quoted ranges are just like the quoted MPG from combustion engines and therefore are generally very much wide of the mark.
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
Wills2 said:
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
Yet.When electric cars have had as much development as diesels have now, they'll be the only sensible choice for nine out of ten motorists...that's if you're interested in being sensible of course.
Wills2 said:
Not whilst doing 1/4 mile runs it hasn't, I drove 435 miles today, in a Tesla I'd be holed up in some hotel by now rather than at home.
And remember these quoted ranges are just like the quoted MPG from combustion engines and therefore are generally very much wide of the mark.
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
They will comfortably cover 200 hard driven miles. Recharging is at many Motorway stations 40 mins full charge while you have a coffee (free to charge too). And remember these quoted ranges are just like the quoted MPG from combustion engines and therefore are generally very much wide of the mark.
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
Its a good thing they exist and will improve
Improved range won't take long - battery technology is developing much faster than any IC engine and it won't be long before the range will be sufficient for the requirements of the vast majority. For the few, a small diesel engine is ideal as a range extender.
I'll still want a NA petrol for playtime though.
I'll still want a NA petrol for playtime though.
Clivey said:
Improved range won't take long - battery technology is developing much faster than any IC engine and it won't be long before the range will be sufficient for the requirements of the vast majority. For the few, a small diesel engine is ideal as a range extender.
I'll still want a NA petrol for playtime though.
I think there are a few technologies that could be commercialised, aluminium air batteries could take the EV range to about 1000 miles if they can be developed further. I'll still want a NA petrol for playtime though.
Wills2 said:
Not whilst doing 1/4 mile runs it hasn't, I drove 435 miles today, in a Tesla I'd be holed up in some hotel by now rather than at home.
And remember these quoted ranges are just like the quoted MPG from combustion engines and therefore are generally very much wide of the mark.
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
Got better things to be doing than driving 435 miles in a day as the norm!And remember these quoted ranges are just like the quoted MPG from combustion engines and therefore are generally very much wide of the mark.
I'm not anti electric cars but whole charging and range issues won't allow me to look at them.
FrankUnderwood said:
I think there are a few technologies that could be commercialised, aluminium air batteries could take the EV range to about 1000 miles if they can be developed further.
Are Tesla not going to release a new battery set when they launch a 3 series rival for £30k and refresh the batteries over the entire range. Wonder how much increase this will provide.
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