Next step: Track tuition
Discussion
I think alot of training also depends on the kind of learner the 'student' is. Some are just practitioners who get out, watch the instructor, imitate, and try to go faster. Why they are or not, they may not know. Some like to think it through, and want to understand the physics and theory of what's happening before they practise. So when they practise, they can logically understand and see the inputs and the resulting outputs (increased speed/smoothness/stability/etc).
I've noticed that most of the trackday company 'tuition' is focused on finding the line and braking points of the circuit they are at. The tuition is not actually about general riding that is transferrable to the road or other circuits - it's just designed to help you find your way around that particular track, faster. IMHO, a waste of time unless you are really struggling with the particular circuit.
Schools like CSS are not focused on the actual track - it's focused on you as a rider and your bike. What they teach you are transferable skills to any road or circuit.
For all the naysayers of CSS, I am a big fan and have learned alot from the classroom and on-track training. Yes it is more expensive compared to other rider training, but I think it was a worthwhile investment that has improved not just my riding, but I have also gained from the in-class teaching and understanding of what is going on with the bike at different phases of making turns. Reading a number of posts of people who have 'done' CSS, many have only completed Level 1, maybe Level 2, and called it a day, when there is still Level 3 and 4. As with any learning, partial learning is exactly that - partial. It's worth seeing through the 'end' - if there is a point at which you can stop learning...
I've noticed that most of the trackday company 'tuition' is focused on finding the line and braking points of the circuit they are at. The tuition is not actually about general riding that is transferrable to the road or other circuits - it's just designed to help you find your way around that particular track, faster. IMHO, a waste of time unless you are really struggling with the particular circuit.
Schools like CSS are not focused on the actual track - it's focused on you as a rider and your bike. What they teach you are transferable skills to any road or circuit.
For all the naysayers of CSS, I am a big fan and have learned alot from the classroom and on-track training. Yes it is more expensive compared to other rider training, but I think it was a worthwhile investment that has improved not just my riding, but I have also gained from the in-class teaching and understanding of what is going on with the bike at different phases of making turns. Reading a number of posts of people who have 'done' CSS, many have only completed Level 1, maybe Level 2, and called it a day, when there is still Level 3 and 4. As with any learning, partial learning is exactly that - partial. It's worth seeing through the 'end' - if there is a point at which you can stop learning...
Couple of points here to note, I did some instruction many years ago for No Limts and you'd be surprised at the shocking standard of riders needing instruction how some of them passed their test was beyond me, but ultimately they all gained from track time.
I've also done levels 1 and 2 of CSS and raced for a few years. I really enjoyed CSS and it's a very structured approach to riding fast, it isn't a track day which some people forget it's a school. I was bowled over with level 1, level 2 not so much but I guess it's a continuation, then I started racing so all my spare £££ was plowed into that.
I would recommend them without any question, you will learn a hell of a lot, but it's your money.
Looking at your photos (I can only see one or two at work unfortunately), the first thing as has already been mentioned is you feet position, you should be riding on the ball of your feet, also you seem very upright on the bike, not tucked behind the screen. The way I was told was tucked in behind the screen (on the straights) was in the office, going into a corner, transferring weight across the seat and hanging off your head should be outside of the screen bubble on the inside of the corner - out of the office if that makes sense.
Also look well into and through the corner, use your peripheral vision to check your turn point, focus on the apex and the exit points - vanishing point.
I've also done levels 1 and 2 of CSS and raced for a few years. I really enjoyed CSS and it's a very structured approach to riding fast, it isn't a track day which some people forget it's a school. I was bowled over with level 1, level 2 not so much but I guess it's a continuation, then I started racing so all my spare £££ was plowed into that.
I would recommend them without any question, you will learn a hell of a lot, but it's your money.
Looking at your photos (I can only see one or two at work unfortunately), the first thing as has already been mentioned is you feet position, you should be riding on the ball of your feet, also you seem very upright on the bike, not tucked behind the screen. The way I was told was tucked in behind the screen (on the straights) was in the office, going into a corner, transferring weight across the seat and hanging off your head should be outside of the screen bubble on the inside of the corner - out of the office if that makes sense.
Also look well into and through the corner, use your peripheral vision to check your turn point, focus on the apex and the exit points - vanishing point.
Some useful comments chaps... 
As for foot position - always something I've struggled with hence since those pictures I've installed rear sets which has stopped me grinding my boots out.
Some more pics of my recent track day... that have just popped up online today:
Agree my head needs to come down and 'outside' the screen area to the inside of the turn... I also agree my arse needs to go further back so I can get my body further across into the turn.
As for foot position - always something I've struggled with hence since those pictures I've installed rear sets which has stopped me grinding my boots out.
Some more pics of my recent track day... that have just popped up online today:
Agree my head needs to come down and 'outside' the screen area to the inside of the turn... I also agree my arse needs to go further back so I can get my body further across into the turn.
Take a look at my FB page mate. There's a picture of me 5 years ago at Donington via Timehop. You look like that.
Feet, shoulders, arms all need moving or relaxing. Cracking comment about cornering from BN a few years back. You've cracked cornering when you can breath normally going through them.
Feet, shoulders, arms all need moving or relaxing. Cracking comment about cornering from BN a few years back. You've cracked cornering when you can breath normally going through them.
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LoonR1 said:
Take a look at my FB page mate. There's a picture of me 5 years ago at Donington via Timehop. You look like that.
Feet, shoulders, arms all need moving or relaxing. Cracking comment about cornering from BN a few years back. You've cracked cornering when you can breath normally going through them.
Yep agreed... I look like I'm in 'road riding' mode rather than 'track riding' mode... hence wanting to sort it. Which is where you come in... Feet, shoulders, arms all need moving or relaxing. Cracking comment about cornering from BN a few years back. You've cracked cornering when you can breath normally going through them.
Mr OCD said:
Yep agreed... I look like I'm in 'road riding' mode rather than 'track riding' mode... hence wanting to sort it. Which is where you come in...
Then book a proper track ie Oulton and I'll book the day too and get one of the BL instructors to help you out. But you have to listen, learn and try it no matter how alien it feels. LoonR1 said:
Take a look at my FB page mate. There's a picture of me 5 years ago at Donington via Timehop. You look like that.
I was looking through my old track day pictures the other day and noticed something similar. Same corner. 1st pic November 2012. 2nd pic July 2014.
I wouldn't say my body positioning is perfect now, far from it. But comparing to how I was it's a world apart!
It does feel weird at first but I kept talking to myself when I was going round telling myself what to do. It soon became where I didn't have to think about it.
LoonR1 said:
Then book a proper track ie Oulton and I'll book the day too and get one of the BL instructors to help you out. But you have to listen, learn and try it no matter how alien it feels.
Yep... looking at various dates - will buzz you.I'm a fast learner once shown mate. I'm willing to try anything...
biggest one for me was, arse out of seat when breaking, leg line up and shoulder starting to dip in whilst on the brakes.
id normally grasp the tank then do my body position going into the turn this would unsettle the bike.
again im no where near the finished article, but I can at least spot where im going wrong looking now.
that's why I bought a camera to spot where im slowing down to early, wrong line etc
id normally grasp the tank then do my body position going into the turn this would unsettle the bike.
again im no where near the finished article, but I can at least spot where im going wrong looking now.
that's why I bought a camera to spot where im slowing down to early, wrong line etc
LoonR1 said:
Handlebars are the biggest clue to speed on photos. The closer to the ground, the faster you're going.
Managed to get mine REALLY low, so low in fact all the marshalls and medics came running over to look. Must have been impressive stuff as they even red flagged the other riders so I had the track to myself 
LoonR1 said:
Let me reword that. The distance from the handlebars to the ground on the same corner for different riders is a better gauge of their relative speed through the corner than whether one has their knee down or not.
Not entirely true, either. You can hang off (no knee down) and have a bike more upright (bars farther away from the ground) going faster, than being cranked all the way over going slower (as in the gymkhana photo). Bar proximity to the ground is not a very good indicator. However, your point about whether you are knee down, or not, is true. (ref most TT riders who are rarely knee down)
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