Unreasonable Employer - Expenses
Discussion
Morning all,
I'm getting into a dispute with my employer over my business expenses.
I am required to work away alot, this has never been a problem, hotels were booked and paid for from the office. Leaving only meals and parking as cash expenses to be claimed.
They have now changed their policy since they merged with a much larger firm and we're now expected to cover all expenses and then claim as usual.
However, 4 nights of the week, pretty much every week adds up with hotels, meals etc and on top of my fuel claims and parking, my expenses are regularly reaching £1000 a month. I've explained to them there is no way I can keep this up as paying this means I can't pay my own bills and am beginning to fall behind on some smaller items such as Sky and Three.
They said a cash float is not an option, nor is a company credit card.
They suggested I got my own credit card but my credit report is far from perfect and the only ones I manage to find was at a silly rate of interest.
What are my rights here? I've basically been told it is part of my job to be able to work away as most of our work is out of the area. I can't afford to have most of my wage spent on expenses, but cant afford to lose my job.
Thanks
I'm getting into a dispute with my employer over my business expenses.
I am required to work away alot, this has never been a problem, hotels were booked and paid for from the office. Leaving only meals and parking as cash expenses to be claimed.
They have now changed their policy since they merged with a much larger firm and we're now expected to cover all expenses and then claim as usual.
However, 4 nights of the week, pretty much every week adds up with hotels, meals etc and on top of my fuel claims and parking, my expenses are regularly reaching £1000 a month. I've explained to them there is no way I can keep this up as paying this means I can't pay my own bills and am beginning to fall behind on some smaller items such as Sky and Three.
They said a cash float is not an option, nor is a company credit card.
They suggested I got my own credit card but my credit report is far from perfect and the only ones I manage to find was at a silly rate of interest.
What are my rights here? I've basically been told it is part of my job to be able to work away as most of our work is out of the area. I can't afford to have most of my wage spent on expenses, but cant afford to lose my job.
Thanks
If you have a credit card even with a high apr there won't be any interest charges so long as you pay it off in full each month. Does your company reimburse expenses frequently enough for that to be doable?
Bit of a tricky situation though I agree. Ideally you'd have some savings or something you could draw down on which you would repay when reimbursed. Still not ideal but its hard if you're incurring that level of expense each month and don't have your own float to cover it.
Bit of a tricky situation though I agree. Ideally you'd have some savings or something you could draw down on which you would repay when reimbursed. Still not ideal but its hard if you're incurring that level of expense each month and don't have your own float to cover it.
As long as the expenses have been incurred in the course of your employment AND they were incurred in accordance with the criteria set out by the employer, then they should reimburse you, in full, in a prompt and timely manner.
Whether you are paying these costs by personal credit card or by cash or in any other way should be of no relevance.
Whether you are paying these costs by personal credit card or by cash or in any other way should be of no relevance.
Expenses are supposedly submitted one one week before pay pay, then reimbursed with my wage. This is not always the case in past experience. Also, I should have probably added in my original post, the only card who accepted my application (name not important but someone i've never heard) will only give me a credit limit of £250??!!
I've asked for the issue to be raised further than the Operations Manager of our particular company and to be taken to the finance department and HR of the larger group. The company is a multi-national, multi-million operation so I don't think a cash float of my average expense total is an unreasonable request.
I've asked for the issue to be raised further than the Operations Manager of our particular company and to be taken to the finance department and HR of the larger group. The company is a multi-national, multi-million operation so I don't think a cash float of my average expense total is an unreasonable request.
Getting a personal credit card and using it only for work expenses that are then paid back to you, I can see it being a great way of re-building your credit rating if your able to pay it off promptly each month.
I understand your reservation and you are in effect giving your employer a line of credit BUT you could use this to your advantage.
I understand your reservation and you are in effect giving your employer a line of credit BUT you could use this to your advantage.
Can you get someone else (your manager) to pay your hotel bill? Although against company policy, I've done that for a few people that work for me in your situation for a few months until they have sufficient time to get a good credit rating / card.
Alternatively, if you stay at the same hotel, you could get them to invoice the company? Get them to create a rolling purchase order to cover room only.
Alternatively, if you stay at the same hotel, you could get them to invoice the company? Get them to create a rolling purchase order to cover room only.
In many ways, it is a bit unethical and unfair for an employer to put the burden of initial payment for a business cost onto the shoulders of an employee - especially if the costs are not insubstantial; (the odd bottle of Tippex or office round of cakes and buns is neither here nor there).
IF an employer insists on operating in this fashion, then the employer should do whatever they can to facilitate the employee in putting in place some sort of payment system that ensures the employee is never out of pocket and never has to incur finance costs or interest.
Obviously, the best course of action would be for the employer to pay these costs directly and not have the employee have to pay anything.
IF an employer insists on operating in this fashion, then the employer should do whatever they can to facilitate the employee in putting in place some sort of payment system that ensures the employee is never out of pocket and never has to incur finance costs or interest.
Obviously, the best course of action would be for the employer to pay these costs directly and not have the employee have to pay anything.
Eric Mc said:
In many ways, it is a bit unethical and unfair for an employer to put the burden of initial payment for a business cost onto the shoulders of an employee - especially if the costs are not insubstantial; (the odd bottle of Tippex or office round of cakes and buns is neither here nor there).
Many do, and increasingly so IME. I can only guess that there are some cost implications on company credit card/AMEX schemes that companies are looking to avoid by putting the burden on the employee.Up until very recently when she changed role, my wife was racking up monthly bills of £3k-£4k on our personal credit card for work expenses. Hers is a large, global company without a company credit card scheme, so as in the OP's case, employees pay for work expenses on a personal card and then submit their expenses for reimbursement. We pay off the card balance in full each month, but on several occasions have had to dip into savings for a couple of grand here and there when her claim 'hasn't reached Finance in time' or she's had to resubmit as the 'receipts got lost in the internal mail'. Strange how it never happens on the little claims, always the big ones. We've made sure that we have a John Lewis card, so we receive points/vouchers for all her work expenses.
Sadly, OP, if your employer is a large company, I think they are going to be less inclined to work around your own personal credit issues than a smaller company would. Does it say anything in your contract about this?
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 23 July 10:10
Edited by Highway Star on Wednesday 23 July 10:12
Highway Star said:
Sadly, OP, if your employer is a large company, I think they are going to be less inclined to work around your own personal credit issues than a smaller company would.
That's my concern. My last job, which was a much, much smaller, local business in the same industry had company credit cards issued to anyone who's expenses would exceed £100 on a regular basis, so all of us field engineers.Our expenses people must have a handbook of excuses issued to them because no matter what the total amount, you'll nearly always have an email wanting further info or re-submission.
Pretty disgraceful behaviour by the employer - in my opinion.
The employer can also be causing problems for themselves by having employees initially pay these bills -
for a start, there is a chance the cost may not be properly recorded in the company's business accounts
secondly, the reimbursement of expenses to employees are supposed to be properly annotated and recorded and then returned to HMRC as part of the P11D process - which is a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare
thirdly, having an employee pay the business related cost first can, in some circumstances, effectively block the business from recovering VAT on that cost.
It's far more efficient and easier for the business to pay its own bills and not have a third party act as a payment intermediary.
A company credit card is by far the best option in this day and age.
The employer can also be causing problems for themselves by having employees initially pay these bills -
for a start, there is a chance the cost may not be properly recorded in the company's business accounts
secondly, the reimbursement of expenses to employees are supposed to be properly annotated and recorded and then returned to HMRC as part of the P11D process - which is a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare
thirdly, having an employee pay the business related cost first can, in some circumstances, effectively block the business from recovering VAT on that cost.
It's far more efficient and easier for the business to pay its own bills and not have a third party act as a payment intermediary.
A company credit card is by far the best option in this day and age.
Although I sympathise and credit to you for not having a credit card and think your request for a float is reasonable, I wonder about you not having even a £1000 float of your own yet you have taken contracts with Sky and Three and who knows what else. How about having a frugal couple of months to plant yourself in the black?
Purity14 said:
Get the £250 card for now.
Max it, pay it off, max it pay it off. Consider it a trial run for your expences.
After two months, the credit card company will give you a £1000 limit, then a £2000 soon enough.
This. Max it, pay it off, max it pay it off. Consider it a trial run for your expences.
After two months, the credit card company will give you a £1000 limit, then a £2000 soon enough.
It sounds like even the £250 loan would help your situation re personal finances. BUT ON NO ACCOUNT should you be tempted to use the card for any personal expenditure and you MUST pay it off in full every month. Learn when the "roll over" date for the card is (i.e. when the statement is issued) and use it immediately after that date to get the longest possible interest-free period - that should get you almost 2 months in which to get your expenses claim processed.
herewego said:
Although I sympathise and credit to you for not having a credit card and think your request for a float is reasonable, I wonder about you not having even a £1000 float of your own yet you have taken contracts with Sky and Three and who knows what else. How about having a frugal couple of months to plant yourself in the black?
Contracts are contracts which I am fixed into, from a time when money was alot better with more than enough disposable income. My partner earned considerably more than I did but since the relationship ended, I stayed at the house but had to find a new job due to personal reasons (the b****'s old man was my boss) and had to take a pay cut to find work.I'll openly put my hands up and admit to being reckless with my money in the past, causing problems i'm still dealing with years later. I'm in my 1st year of an IVA to manage debts which were out of control, but broadband is something I need for the times I can work from home, a phone is on a 24 month contract. etc etc
From a pratical point of view: find out what happens if there is a disputed item in you expense claim (eg you have put a £0.59 can of Coke in, but didn't include the receipt for that one item).
In that case, is the entire expense payment withheld for that month on account of that one item, which may be 0.1% of the total claim or is the expense claim paid minus the disputed item which you can provide the receipt for later.
Which way this works will make a real difference to your cash flow esp if expense claims are paid only once a month.
In that case, is the entire expense payment withheld for that month on account of that one item, which may be 0.1% of the total claim or is the expense claim paid minus the disputed item which you can provide the receipt for later.
Which way this works will make a real difference to your cash flow esp if expense claims are paid only once a month.
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