911 Turbo vs. Turbo S

[Get2Jaime]

Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model. Any insight?

Google isnt particularly forthcoming on this subject....

[MOD500]

Have a read of the brochure, it outlines the specs and options on both turbo models:

http://sportauto.ee/porsche/catalogues/911-997Turb...

[DUMBO100]

Turbo S, it 's frightening. Buy one

[Isysman]

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

[mrdemon]

Get2Jaime said:

Been pondering the difference, specifically with the 997.2 model. Any insight?

Google isnt particularly forthcoming on this subject....

Most of the kit is standard on the S , but many super speced up the non S so you could find a bargin non S with all the S kit.

[Callughan]

Isysman said:

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)?

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51

[IMI A]

Callughan said:

Isysman said:

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)?

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51

I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too.

Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it).

[Callughan]

IMI A said:

Callughan said:

Isysman said:

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)?

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51

I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too.

Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it).

Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S.

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02

[IMI A]

Callughan said:

IMI A said:

Callughan said:

Isysman said:

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

Would you bet your car with the mods it has to be faster than a stock S(both straight and track)?

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 12:51

I've driven and been driven in Cargraphic 624 bhp stage 4 kit (£20,000 conversion) and FVD 650 bhp 3.8 litre (£50,000) gen 1 997 turbos. Both manual cars but think you can have these kits in tips too.

Admittedly PDK in gen 2 Turbo S is superhuman but with a decent driver I think the gen 1 cars would murder a turbo S both on track and in straight line. I've spent track time in both and know how accomplished the gen 2 turbos S is but the cars above especially the FVD were savage and refined with it to boot (Cargraphic car felt completely OEM but FVD was just far too quick to feel OEM - roller coaster is the only other thing i've been in thats like it).

Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual would not be quicker than a turbo S.

Completely agree remap and zorst will not be on par with turbos S due to PDK. But yes Nicks car and the cargraphic both which have upgraded turbos would murder a turbos S in my view. Nicks is obviously in different class altogether with built 3.8l stroker. A turbo S is 35-40 secs 0-300kph depending on condition. Nicks car is probably sub 25 secs 0-300kph and the cargraphic kit is circa 25-28secs secs 0-300kph although Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S.

[Callughan]

Yes amazing figures. I've also seen even 29 sec quoted for 7ts with the improved chassis it's a great product stock. ZeroH has a nice spreadsheet with all the figures

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:58

[TB993tt]

IMI A said:

Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S.

They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it.

[Inverted]

Isysman said:

There was no Turbo S in gen.1 so you could be debating a 997.1 Turbo Vs a 997.2 Turbo S.

Biggest differences (for me) PDK only Turbo S which rules it out immediately for me, as I'd only have a manual. And that's what I have.

997.2 Turbo does NOT have the Metzga engine, which I'd imagine would put some off also.

Save a packet, but a Manual 997.1 Turbo and have it modified to be faster than the S! What I did.

997. 2 Turbo doesnt have a Mezger??

[mollytherocker]

Inverted said:

997. 2 Turbo doesnt have a Mezger??

Nope. It has the the totally new DFI.

[IMI A]

TB993tt said:

IMI A said:

Cargraphics own car which was significantly lightened (so not really fair comparison) did 0-300kph in 23 secs at an independent test and beat just about everything the test threw at it including all sorts of exotica . Thats massively quicker in real terms than a turbo S.

They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it.

Makes sense. Don't see how a 624bhp car even with 100kgs less could be putting those sort of numbers out. Its a nice enough kit though and feels OEM or rather how the car should have left Stuttgart in the first place. Also Nicks built FVD car with only 25bhp more is so much quicker than the above Cargraphic kit. On a motorway in clear traffic on open road I was shocked how quick it is. Got a bit of motion sickness it was do damn fast!

[911Viking]

TB993tt said:

They misquoted/lied for that 0-300 in 23s test, the engine had been rebuilt from the 624PS spec and actually had nearer 680PS. They may have kept the 624PS moniker as all cars tested were supposed to have TUV approval and only the 624PS kit had it.

Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day.

[Isysman]

No doubt the S would be faster off the Mark but on the motorway etc wouldn't be faster. Anyway I'd still rather have the manual regardless.

[Inverted]

mollytherocker said:

Nope. It has the the totally new DFI.

Every days a school day.. Thanks never new that.

[TB993tt]

911Viking said:

Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day.

H, this car has the mega expensive Secan intercoolers so runs a solid 680PS. It was actually 23.8s 0-300. This car was specially lightened and did 0-200 in 9.1s with manual change !! so 200-300 was 14.7s which is about right for this level of real power on a 997.

[911Viking]

TB993tt said:

911Viking said:

Don't think even 680 would get anywhere near 23 sec, in my experience you need a well build 725+ package to get a 23 sec run. And that's on a good day with no wind, light on fuel and possibly a light decline as well. 997's can be quick'ish to 220/240 kph, but they tail off when IAT' starts running wild... We'll build 680 would probably give you a fair 25 sec on a good day.

H, this car has the mega expensive Secan intercoolers so runs a solid 680PS. It was actually 23.8s 0-300. This car was specially lightened and did 0-200 in 9.1s with manual change !! so 200-300 was 14.7s which is about right for this level of real power on a 997.

Makes sense T, good IC's makes huge diff when getting up in speed, should be one of the first places to spend monetos.... 23.8 is 24 sec :-) ... Real men only do manual, all that modern electronic traction and shifting stuff is for less skilled chaps, hahaha

Btw, A few years ago in my 9e25 (which was a solid GPS 23 sec car) I did a bunch of roll ons with my mate in a 7.2TS, at low speed he was hanging on ie up to 120/130kph, but then distance started building and when 4th started to kick in the difference was massive. He actually got pissed off since there was a little pride going down the drain, he had no idea how big the diff was in a fast road car and a really fast road car.

You coming to next VMax?

[Isysman]

Callughan said:

Wouldn't say murder but FVD you mention would be quicker. Are you talking about Nick's car? Just saying with nothing more than remap a gen 1 manual esp DMS would not be quicker than a turbo S.

Edited by Callughan on Saturday 26th July 16:02

You a customer of DMS then? It's quite annoying to see people with no experience of theirs bashing them online. I've spoken to quite a few customers recently and not one has a bad word to say about them. So I'm betting you are not one, you just 'heard of a bloke' or 'have a mate' who had one? I am a customer and my car is excellent after the upgrades.

Edited by Isysman on Monday 28th July 04:47