Extra high worksurfaces

[loughran]

I've been making furniture for fair few years now, bespoke kitchens are the mainstay of my business. I'm sat at the drawing board this morning tickling the final designs for a customer who has requested finished worksurface height at 950mm.

The customer says she has a bad back and the increased height will alleviate the problem which is fair enough, that's what bespoke is all about but I have a sense of foreboding. There's a lot of furniture that's going to be two inches higher than it should be (in my experience) and I think the whole room is going to look very odd.

I did suggest she keep the kitchen standard and use chopping blocks to increase the working height when and where she needed it.

I know there are quite a few kitchen pros on here.... any thoughts on higher worksurface heights and their implications.

[BFG TERRANO]

I built a house for a tall family last year that had this and special order full height doors.

Remember wall units will also have to go up for hob clearances. We built an upstanding and sat the base units on it and finished it with deeper plinths to conceal the platform it stood on

[Blakeatron]

We kitted out a house for a tall family - taller beds, dining chairs, tables, kitchen, sink vanities - i was worried also but to be honest you couldnt really tell from looks.

When using them it felt a little strange, our kitchen top was 975

[Neil - YVM]

We have done this a couple of times, used taller plinths, and kept the worktop to wall unit gap standard. Looked fine, though did feel strange as not standard.
Only minor issue was needing to set the integrates on platforms.

[Wozy68]

Yes we have done it also for taller customers on occasion. I think practicality over room dynamics has to come into play here.

The one thing to remember is under counter appliances. Miele produce taller (or is that full height?) dishwashers etc but many do not and the appliances cannot be raised enough without having large in-fills or feet packers (which never really work) to cover the void to under the worktop..
So homework and more homework on what appliances to spec

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 27th July 19:14

[Steve H]

When I built my kitchen I went for a higher finished level, I've just measured it and it is about 970mm.

I used standard Magnet units but built the whole lot up on concrete slabs to form the extra height, I'm 6'2" and the Mrs is about 5'10" and it works perfectly and looks fine - not even noticeable to most people unless they actually use it and realise something feels different.

[loughran]

Thanks for you replies, some things I hadn't considered. Making standard height cabinets and jacking them up isn't a bad Idea, means that when the job's fitted and the customer has a change of heart (my real fear) the whole thing is easily reversible. But then how big can kickers get before they look too big, I make mine 120 as a rule, I'll try 170mm tomorrow, see how it looks.

Appliances ! I was wondering how far you could wind those feet out of the white ware before they snapped off, never really pushed the limits before. Platforms for the appliances are going to be necessary.... perhaps I should provide 'service extension platforms' so the dishwasher etc can be pulled forward easily at a later date. The stove is going to have to go on a low staging but then very often Agas sit on some sort of plinth.

The worktop to wall cabinet dimension is the critical one for me and what prompted me to post. I like my wall cabinets 410 above the worksurface, 1310 from the floor, It sets the scene when you walk in the room and creates a certain intimacy. What's it all going to look like when we're 2 inches adrift.

I think I might have to make the wall cabinets just the right size so I can hang them, stand back and if they don't look right, rehang them till they do.

So then, I meet with the customer on Tuesday evening for a progress report from the builders and to discuss these finer points and to meet the husband for the first time. The deal is already done and I've promised myself, after finishing a couple of very challenging jobs recently, I'm going to enjoy this one if it kills me.

All this has made me realise I always always aim for worktop finished height to be 900mm.... is that the normal norm for you guys. It's easy to get out of touch with these things.

[RevHappy]

That's not that high, anyone whose about 5'8" and above would find a 940mm worktop fine to use, the world's getting taller. Inductions hobs makes it easier as well. So the clients request isn't that much higher, I'd increase each element slightly to keep the proportions. On a handless kitchen it would be 100mm plinth, 780 base unit, 50mm rail and 20mm worktop. Handled kitchen 120mm plinth, 780 base and 50mm worktop.

[RevHappy]

Should have added taller tall units keeps the wall unit to worktop spacing in check

[Neil - YVM]

We aim for a nominal floor finish to carcase height of 870mm, obviously not all floors are perfectly level, so this can vary around the kitchen. This also ties in with most manufacturers nominal integrated units height. This gives a nom 910mm worktop height.

[Jonny_]

Rig up some sort of hydraulic system that can raise or lower the floor within the kitchen by say plus or minus 6 inches. Then they could, in future, sell the house on to other tall people, or short people, or people of average height...

[Wozy68]

loughran said:

Thanks for you replies, some things I hadn't considered. Making standard height cabinets and jacking them up isn't a bad Idea, means that when the job's fitted and the customer has a change of heart (my real fear) the whole thing is easily reversible. But then how big can kickers get before they look too big, I make mine 120 as a rule, I'll try 170mm tomorrow, see how it looks.

Appliances ! I was wondering how far you could wind those feet out of the white ware before they snapped off, never really pushed the limits before. Platforms for the appliances are going to be necessary.... perhaps I should provide 'service extension platforms' so the dishwasher etc can be pulled forward easily at a later date. The stove is going to have to go on a low staging but then very often Agas sit on some sort of plinth.

The worktop to wall cabinet dimension is the critical one for me and what prompted me to post. I like my wall cabinets 410 above the worksurface, 1310 from the floor, It sets the scene when you walk in the room and creates a certain intimacy. What's it all going to look like when we're 2 inches adrift.

I think I might have to make the wall cabinets just the right size so I can hang them, stand back and if they don't look right, rehang them till they do.

So then, I meet with the customer on Tuesday evening for a progress report from the builders and to discuss these finer points and to meet the husband for the first time. The deal is already done and I've promised myself, after finishing a couple of very challenging jobs recently, I'm going to enjoy this one if it kills me.

All this has made me realise I always always aim for worktop finished height to be 900mm.... is that the normal norm for you guys. It's easy to get out of touch with these things.

As another poster has pointed out, you are really not going that much higher with your base cabinets, we usually aim for 910MM as standard.
Peronally I'm not great on the idea of lifting appliances and putting them on their own plinths, though I can see with integrated washers etc there may well be a problem.
Cabinet feet may need blocking up, which I dislike immensly, though you may well get away with on near full extension. Just don't drag the cabinets about with them fitted and they should be fine .. after all its all downwards pressure.

Finally if normal plinths or skirting are going to be used on the base cabinets, whats wrong with 135 - 150 tall? they look fine IMO, especially with the hights your going too.

FYI. This one has 130MM 'seen' plinths and is standard height

Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 28th July 12:07

[Pheo]

our friends had this done, with higher plinth, and the only issue is the semi-integrated dishwasher having a gap at the top needing filling (they didn't want integrated, where it would ahve been easier to get a bigger door to fit!

Does look slighlty odd if you look closely, but isn't normally noticable.

[loughran]

Wozy68 said:

Nicey nice, I had to focus for a moment to see what's going on there, is that kicker painted a shade darker or is it shadow. It's a good point, well made though.. who actually cares about kicker height when they've got a lovely kitchen to look at.

Here am I getting all unnecessary about what others are taking in their stride... Now I think about it, I remember years ago one of the sleek German manufactures advertising worksurface heights, 'tailored to you exact requirements'. Possibly Pogen Pohl, revolutionary at the time. I bet they did 950 worksurfaces in the 80s

As you've said, the world is getting taller, (well some of it is) and a lot of it has a bad back so who knows, ten years from know we'll have metre high worksurfaces... or hydraulic floors even.

I'll let you know how it goes but now I can sit with the customer and look all confident about 950 worktops.

Thanks very much.

[Wozy68]

loughran said:

Wozy68 said:

Nicey nice, I had to focus for a moment to see what's going on there, is that kicker painted a shade darker or is it shadow. It's a good point, well made though.. who actually cares about kicker height when they've got a lovely kitchen to look at.

Here am I getting all unnecessary about what others are taking in their stride... Now I think about it, I remember years ago one of the sleek German manufactures advertising worksurface heights, 'tailored to you exact requirements'. Possibly Pogen Pohl, revolutionary at the time. I bet they did 950 worksurfaces in the 80s

As you've said, the world is getting taller, (well some of it is) and a lot of it has a bad back so who knows, ten years from know we'll have metre high worksurfaces... or hydraulic floors even.

I'll let you know how it goes but now I can sit with the customer and look all confident about 950 worktops.

Thanks very much.

Cheers matey

Yes your right, there is quite a bit going on in there, what do you think of the worktop? I'd never used it before and it comes in a wild range of colours ...... it's made of volcanic lava stone if I remember correctly.

Plinth off memory is same colour as the cabinets ..... I admit it does look a different shade, but I think its in shadow.

If your anything like me, I get lost in the detail sometimes and it starts to become an issue. At the end of the day it's just a slightly higher worktop and for the life of me I can't remember one being a problem, or at least nothing that couldn't be overcome quite easily ..

Best of luck with it.

[RevHappy]

Don't worry if they want deeper worktops and units, 60 deep is old hat as well now

[RevHappy]

loughran said:

Here am I getting all unnecessary about what others are taking in their stride... Now I think about it, I remember years ago one of the sleek German manufactures advertising worksurface heights, 'tailored to you exact requirements'. Possibly Pogen Pohl, revolutionary at the time. I bet they did 950 worksurfaces in the 80s

Probably about 1950, but it wasn't until the mid nineties that they filled the extra space with a larger carcass system.

[loughran]

RevHappy said:

Don't worry if they want deeper worktops and units, 60 deep is old hat as well now

I love putting 700 worktops in. Space permitting they look sooo good and make customers smile like they're doing something naughty.

[RevHappy]

loughran said:

I love putting 700 worktops in. Space permitting they look sooo good and make customers smile like they're doing something naughty.

As long as you have the deeper base units to match

[Wozy68]

RevHappy said:

loughran said:

I love putting 700 worktops in. Space permitting they look sooo good and make customers smile like they're doing something naughty.

As long as you have the deeper base units to match

Well surely anyone selling expensive fitted kitchens, allows a customer have whatever depth of cabinet they require ... deep, not deep or very very deep?

Or why would they be expensive?