Money claim online help

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Discussion

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Somewhere on here there will be a thread about a Saab I was ripped off with. Anyway I entered a claim online for the car, road tax, insurance and transport. Defendant entered no defence, all I got was a hand written note saying he hadn't been in contact due to not having my phone number (it was on all my letters). I requested a judgement and it was issued yesterday. The next step is to request a warrant if he doesn't pay. There are somethings I'm not sure on and can't find in the MCOL help.

If he pays, what do I do with the car?
How long should I give him to pay? On the judgement I entered immediately.
The £100 for the warrant, should I get that back off the defendant?

randlemarcus

13,504 posts

230 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Is the original thread.

How much did you claim for?
How much did you get in the judgement?

Yes, that figure should include the costs of the claim, but, having glanced at the original thread, I'm fascinated to understand your workings out for the price difference between a HOT Saab shed, and a not-HOT Saab shed biggrin

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
The car stopped working all together, so I claimed it was not fit for purpose. The turbo never put out any boost, then fuses started popping.

I claimed for the cost of the car, transportation, insurance and road tax. The defendant didn't submit a defense, so I won by default. I claimed about £1070 and the judgement was for the full amount.

Its quite simple to do as well. You enter your claim, pay the fee, that gets sent off to the defendant, its classed as served 5 days after its sent to them, they have another 14 days to enter a defense, after that 14 days you can request a judgement. Presumably if they enter a defense it then goes to court. I'm already planning my next claim, my ex-tenant who took the carpets and trashed the house, but thats a whole new bog full of st I have to deal with (literally). With all this and my crash in March, this year has been awful.

lookingforajob

1,339 posts

117 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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drew.h said:
The car stopped working all together, so I claimed it was not fit for purpose. The turbo never put out any boost, then fuses started popping.

I claimed for the cost of the car, transportation, insurance and road tax. The defendant didn't submit a defense, so I won by default. I claimed about £1070 and the judgement was for the full amount.

Its quite simple to do as well. You enter your claim, pay the fee, that gets sent off to the defendant, its classed as served 5 days after its sent to them, they have another 14 days to enter a defense, after that 14 days you can request a judgement. Presumably if they enter a defense it then goes to court. I'm already planning my next claim, my ex-tenant who took the carpets and trashed the house, but thats a whole new bog full of st I have to deal with (literally). With all this and my crash in March, this year has been awful.
Congratulations on winning - but you are very very lucky that the other party chose not to defend. I won't go into why as there are far more qualified people than me to explain that if anyone is interested, but you are one of the luckiest guys alive.

Getting the cash is technically easy. Wait and see if he/she pays and then apply to have enforcement action taken. All costs will be returned to do you IF the bailiffs get the money. If they don't want to pay you won't get a penny. Too easy to work around the system.

I hope you have a propper inventory of the house before the tenants move in... And if you got a deposit I hope you made sure it was protected. If I was you I'd get decent advice before issuing willy nilly claims. I'm not saying you don't have a claim (although I don't think you had a claim with the car), but you need to do things properly.

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
I don't see why I didn't have a claim with the car. I thought I may be pushing my luck with the transport cost, insurance and road tax though, but I was out of pocket with them. I bought a car listed as mint condition from a dealer, when I received the car I found it not to be the model listed and informed the dealer. I then found the turbo produced no boost. It was dangerous to drive, because under acceleration the engine would just die, so I stopped driving it and contacted the dealer a second time. Next time I come to move the car it wouldn't turn over and kept blowing fuses. The dealer never replied to me, I contacted trading standards, they forwarded me on to CAB and I took the advice given to me.

lookingforajob

1,339 posts

117 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
drew.h said:
I don't see why I didn't have a claim with the car. I thought I may be pushing my luck with the transport cost, insurance and road tax though, but I was out of pocket with them. I bought a car listed as mint condition from a dealer, when I received the car I found it not to be the model listed and informed the dealer. I then found the turbo produced no boost. It was dangerous to drive, because under acceleration the engine would just die, so I stopped driving it and contacted the dealer a second time. Next time I come to move the car it wouldn't turn over and kept blowing fuses. The dealer never replied to me, I contacted trading standards, they forwarded me on to CAB and I took the advice given to me.
As you said, you pushed your luck. Looks like you won. As I said congratulations. I've no axe to grind, but I do think you were lucky he didn't defend. That's in the past now.

Did you claim against an individual or a Ltd company. It will make a massive amount of difference to if you get anything. Before wasting any more money you should check if he has any other CCJ's outstanding. He may have loads and you may be throwing more money away if he won't/can't pay up... The fact that he didn't defend or pay up before court is concerning.

Whilst you may feel like you won, if you don't get any money you are now down the price of the car and the court fees (plus your time). If you go down the bailiff route you risk piles more cash potentially being thrown away! So I'd check first.

Oh and if he didn't reply to the court at all (you mentioned no tel number) so he might have, be warned getting the judgement set aside will be as easy as paying a fee and saying you never got the letters!

Sorry if that comes across as overly negative, but it is based on first hand experience. The only people worth suing are big companies, and they usually just pay you off before court anyway.

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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An update and a question...

I issued a warrant through the MCOL website last week, so the bailiffs will now give them 7 days to pay or pay them a visit to collect.

What I'm not sure on and what I couldn't get an answer from the MCOL website was what happens to the car. I sent a letter saying they had 5 days to pay and remove car or I would apply for the warrant and dispose of the car. That was 10 days ago, so if I scrap the car does the garage have a claim to the car if they eventually pay the judgement?

i.e., If I scrap the car now can it come back and bite me on the bum (not the car, the decision to scrap it)?

Cyberprog

2,186 posts

182 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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drew.h said:
An update and a question...

I issued a warrant through the MCOL website last week, so the bailiffs will now give them 7 days to pay or pay them a visit to collect.

What I'm not sure on and what I couldn't get an answer from the MCOL website was what happens to the car. I sent a letter saying they had 5 days to pay and remove car or I would apply for the warrant and dispose of the car. That was 10 days ago, so if I scrap the car does the garage have a claim to the car if they eventually pay the judgement?

i.e., If I scrap the car now can it come back and bite me on the bum (not the car, the decision to scrap it)?
Right, well I can tell you that you've done the wrong thing here! What you've done is appointed County Court Baliffs, guys who get paid wether or not the Defendant pays or not. You need to transfer the judgement up to the high court, and involve High Court Certificated Baliffs, who get paid when you do. There's somewhat of an incentive there...
Google The Sheriff's Office for example.

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Monday 18th August 2014
quotequote all
Its the only option on the MCOL web site. Presumably if the warrant isn't paid this time and I still believe the company can pay, I can apply for another warrant at the high court.

I want the car gone, its in the way and I need my NCB for another car. The reply I got from MCOL was what I do with the car is up to me, they are only dealing with the money. Which wasn't helpful.

Red Devil

13,048 posts

207 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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The fee for a High Court writ is peanuts - £60. Once that is issued the HCEO can enforce. Full stop.
The debtor can't wriggle out unless an application to set aside has already been granted by a judge.
(i.e. before the writ was issued).

Quite a lot of HCEO work involves dodgy motor dealers/traders.
OP: watch this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dwknj/the-...
(You'll need to do so within the next 2 days before it is no longer available to view).

POORCARDEALER

8,519 posts

240 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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Schoolboy error:

You have done the hard bit, getting the judgement, but you MUST move your judgement up to the High Court Bailiffs, that gives you the highest possible chance of getting paid. County Court bailiffs very unaffective.

hedgefinder

3,418 posts

169 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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the defendant can still appeal the decision as far as I am aware provided they can give a reasonable answer to the question of why they didnt respond.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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hedgefinder said:
the defendant can still appeal the decision as far as I am aware provided they can give a reasonable answer to the question of why they didnt respond.
They can't appeal as such but they can apply to have the judgment set aside (as if it had never happened in the first place). There are hurdles to overcome, particularly in having to do so quickly once they become aware of the judgment, having good reason for not responding beforehand and/or having an arguable defence.

Edited by tenpenceshort on Tuesday 19th August 08:48

Red Devil

13,048 posts

207 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
A mere application to set aside will not stop the enforcement of a Writ of Control if the debtor doesn't pay. The set aside must be granted first. Of course there is nothing to stop a debtor trying to obtain it after the HCEO's visit. Very often the dodgy types b***s that up too. In many cases even if they do appear the judge (who isn't normally clueless) just laughs* at them and the writ stands.

 * metaphorically of course - a judge is supposed to have gravitas. wink

Personally I would always use a HCEO rather than the County Court variety, especially with a slippery motor dealer/trader, because the former have teeth.
http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/high-court-e...

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
If a judgement via MCOL is a CCJ, which I believe it is, then a Sheriff cannot be used to seize goods under a CCJ. So I Googled how to transfer the judgement to the high court and found this useful page http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/high-court-e.... So, I know for next time. For now I'll leave it in the hands of the county court bailiffs and hope I get a jobs-worth.

My main question still has not been answered. Can I scrap the car today? If the car dealer pays up in full, do they have any rights to the car? 12 days ago I sent a letter by recorded delivery stating if they didn't pay and remove the car within 5 days I'd dispose of it and request a warrant. They received that letter 11 days ago.

drew.h

Original Poster:

526 posts

188 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
Quite a lot of HCEO work involves dodgy motor dealers/traders.
OP: watch this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04dwknj/the-...
(You'll need to do so within the next 2 days before it is no longer available to view).
I'd seen that episode the other night. The security guard at the university was amusing and the mechanics not helping the boss at the engine centre.

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
Red Devil said:
A mere application to set aside will not stop the enforcement of a Writ of Control if the debtor doesn't pay. The set aside must be granted first. Of course there is nothing to stop a debtor trying to obtain it after the HCEO's visit. Very often the dodgy types b***s that up too. In many cases even if they do appear the judge (who isn't normally clueless) just laughs* at them and the writ stands.

 * metaphorically of course - a judge is supposed to have gravitas. wink

Personally I would always use a HCEO rather than the County Court variety, especially with a slippery motor dealer/trader, because the former have teeth.
http://thesheriffsoffice.com/articles/high-court-e...
This recently happened to me.

To clarify, they will not enforce a writ if the Defendant has a hearing date for their application to set Judgment aside.

If the Defendant shows them evidence of that from the Court, they will not enforce.

JustinP1

13,330 posts

229 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
drew.h said:
For now I'll leave it in the hands of the county court bailiffs and hope I get a jobs-worth.
If you get a jobs worth they will know that all they can do is knock on the door and ask nicely. They report back to the court and your enforcement fee disappears.

They are toothless unless the debtor just so happens to be scared or embarrassed enough to do something.

For comparison, the High Court bailiffs go to the debtors house, put their car on a low loader at 6am then knock on the door and ask them how much cash they have to stop their car being taken away.

Or, with a foot in the door once, they are able to make a list of items in the debtors home, and tell the debtor that they effectively belong to the court, and they'll go to jail if they remove them. After the first entry to the house, they can then break in in order to remove items.


Who do you want getting your money? smile

photosnob

1,339 posts

117 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
JustinP1 said:
If you get a jobs worth they will know that all they can do is knock on the door and ask nicely. They report back to the court and your enforcement fee disappears.

They are toothless unless the debtor just so happens to be scared or embarrassed enough to do something.

For comparison, the High Court bailiffs go to the debtors house, put their car on a low loader at 6am then knock on the door and ask them how much cash they have to stop their car being taken away.

Or, with a foot in the door once, they are able to make a list of items in the debtors home, and tell the debtor that they effectively belong to the court, and they'll go to jail if they remove them. After the first entry to the house, they can then break in in order to remove items.


Who do you want getting your money? smile
Just because the BBC show that doesn't mean it always happens in action. If someone wants to get out of paying money they will be able. "Sorry Sir that isn't my car - here is the receipt showing that it belongs to the girlfriend", or "I've applied to the court to have this set aside - here is my letter with a hearing date, now get off my property".

The idea that a HCEO is able to get all money back is daft. They might be better than a county court bailiff, but they are still pretty weak to someone who knows how to the play the system.

Companies are even easier. "Sell" the stock wind the company up and create a new Ltd Company. Decent assets will be in someone else's/another companies name, so they won't be able to take those anyway. The system really is easy to fool.

Tyre Tread

10,525 posts

215 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
IME - and I use the Small Claims Courts to enforce contracts as part of my job - the County Court Bailiff is worse than useless.

The HCEO's only get paid when you do so its worth transferring up to the high Court BUT, as always, before starting a claim, one should check who the claim should be brought against and whether that party has assets.

In your position OP I would transfer up and use High Court Enforcement Officers.

As for the car, it belongs to the garage as you have rejected it. It could be sold to pay some of your debt so why not tell the county court bailiff that its there and let them take it to sell?

The balance you can pursue as normal.



Edited by Tyre Tread on Tuesday 19th August 21:39