Discussion
'Ello all.
To keep me sane during a house move, I'm planning on what project to put in my shiny new garage.
I fancy a cheap flat-tracker project. I'm looking at superdream 250s, Yam XS250 and similar.
The brief:
Will be used as a light, chuckabout bike I can just pull out the garage and pop to the shops/see a mate/go to the seaside with. Anything over 50 miles or so and I'll use my sensible commuter NC700X. Just something to put-put-put around the countryside on enjoying the view.
Needs to be pretty cheap (sub £500 on ebay) so I'm not scared of trying out/having a go at new things. Also I'll be broke.
Parallel twin ideally, but I'll consider a single.
I want an upright position, but the seat needs to be pretty low because I've got a 28in inside leg. Watching me on the NC is either hilarious if you're a mate or terrifying if you're my girlfriend
Able to hit 80mph on a good day/Cruise at 65-70.
Simple to work on.
250cc isn't a limit, if there's a 350/400 that will do the job, let me know (I know there's a 400 superdream). Oddly though, I don't want anything particularly powerful. I'm after squeezing every ounce out of a little lightweight.
Oh, and kickstart option preferred!
Thoughts so far are that the superdream is more plentiful but I don't like the look of the frame that much. Prefer the yam frame but hear the engine's not too great. Looking at the z250 but Kawasaki have unkindly produced a modern z250 and the googling is harder!
Some inspiration:
To keep me sane during a house move, I'm planning on what project to put in my shiny new garage.
I fancy a cheap flat-tracker project. I'm looking at superdream 250s, Yam XS250 and similar.
The brief:
Will be used as a light, chuckabout bike I can just pull out the garage and pop to the shops/see a mate/go to the seaside with. Anything over 50 miles or so and I'll use my sensible commuter NC700X. Just something to put-put-put around the countryside on enjoying the view.
Needs to be pretty cheap (sub £500 on ebay) so I'm not scared of trying out/having a go at new things. Also I'll be broke.
Parallel twin ideally, but I'll consider a single.
I want an upright position, but the seat needs to be pretty low because I've got a 28in inside leg. Watching me on the NC is either hilarious if you're a mate or terrifying if you're my girlfriend
Able to hit 80mph on a good day/Cruise at 65-70.
Simple to work on.
250cc isn't a limit, if there's a 350/400 that will do the job, let me know (I know there's a 400 superdream). Oddly though, I don't want anything particularly powerful. I'm after squeezing every ounce out of a little lightweight.
Oh, and kickstart option preferred!
Thoughts so far are that the superdream is more plentiful but I don't like the look of the frame that much. Prefer the yam frame but hear the engine's not too great. Looking at the z250 but Kawasaki have unkindly produced a modern z250 and the googling is harder!
Some inspiration:
Edited by crofty1984 on Tuesday 29th July 21:30
Edited by crofty1984 on Tuesday 29th July 21:34
VFR 400s and GPZ400s would be fun and cheap, though personally I'd try and hunt down a ratty X7 and use it as a basic project whilst enjoying some fab 80's type fun. Cheaper still, a gloriously unreliable KH 400 should be attainable if a little ratty.
XTs & KLRs plus other trails bikes will be cheaper than road versions, and can be surprisingly road friendly with new tyres.
Of course I haven't dared mention Yam's wonderful RDs, though at under a grand I guess I can't?!
SuperDream it is eh?! FTLoG get a 400 or you'll be walking quicker than that old 250 twin?!
Have fun. I totally get the appeal.
XTs & KLRs plus other trails bikes will be cheaper than road versions, and can be surprisingly road friendly with new tyres.
Of course I haven't dared mention Yam's wonderful RDs, though at under a grand I guess I can't?!
SuperDream it is eh?! FTLoG get a 400 or you'll be walking quicker than that old 250 twin?!
Have fun. I totally get the appeal.
A 30+ year old 250 wet dream or XS250 will struggle to reach 60 let alone cruise there, as for being chuckable they were just dull & felt like dead weight.
Far better starting point would be a GS500 - 17" wheels too.
Like above, trail bike would be more fun but height would be an issue, a retro style XL250S would not be so high but good ones going for decent money - there's still competition events for them.
Any old 2 stroke 250 will go for over budget for a half decent one.
Further option possibly a ER-5 but a lot more modern look.
Far better starting point would be a GS500 - 17" wheels too.
Like above, trail bike would be more fun but height would be an issue, a retro style XL250S would not be so high but good ones going for decent money - there's still competition events for them.
Any old 2 stroke 250 will go for over budget for a half decent one.
Further option possibly a ER-5 but a lot more modern look.
RumpleFugly said:
You'll get an SR250 for £600-700 which is a common base for a small tracker.
A friend owns this and it's an absolute blast down little country lanes.
Yeah, that's the kind of thing I'll be building. Maybe a single would be better. Though I was looking forward to twin high level pipes! A friend owns this and it's an absolute blast down little country lanes.
Compromise with a CB250RS
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB250-RS-1980-W-Pl...
Single cylinder, twin exhausts :-)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CB250-RS-1980-W-Pl...
Single cylinder, twin exhausts :-)
As I understand it, the only thing that would require the bike to go through the MSVA test is a permanent modification to the main frame.
There seems to be no difficulty in insuring radical customs, so a mildly-modified bike like that Yamaha would be no problem.
This is an extract from the Britchopper forum's guide to Building Custom Motorcycles and Trikes in the UK (thanks to Sooze, the forum MSVA expert).
However, for our purposes as custom builders it’s generally the frame/chassis that carries the main question mark, so what can you do to a standard frame before you get into radically altered territory?
The standard frame/chassis’s identity belongs to the main cradle, the seat rail height can be altered and the swinging arm can be altered or replaced but the main cradle must remain completely standard. If its structure or the steering geometry is modified it will be deemed as radically altered, and because of our system, where the "majority" of the vehicle's registered identity belongs to the un-modified frame/chassis, the vehicle's previously registered identity is lost.
Can you weld on a hard tail to a standard main cradle without affecting its identity? No, welding on the hardtail is viewed as changing the main cradle's structure, in effect by welding the frame cradle and hardtail together they have now become one component and the standard main cradle no longer exists.
Can you rake the headstock? No, this is radically altering the bike's steering geometry from its original specification and, in turn, it’s viewed as modifying the frames main cradle.
Single top tube conversion? No, even if the original geometry is kept it is still viewed as modifying the frame's main cradle.
Can you bolt on a hard tail? Yes, there are no regulations that state that you must have rear suspension on a motorcycle, and as long as the bolt on hard tail remains a reversible conversion the registered identity will be kept and the bike does not require an inspection.
Can you bolt on a trike conversion to a standard main cradle? Yes, this conversion must still remain reversible and the trike will need to be inspected by the DVLA or their appointed representative (Not VOSA) prior to its re-classification as a motorcycle derived tricycle, but the registered identity will be kept. Only its
vehicle classification is changed.
Now, in both of the bolt-on scenarios there will obviously, at least in most cases, be the necessity for the addition of bolt on points to the main frame and probably with a trike conversion some additional bracing around those bolt on points as well. It sounds like a contradiction to say that this is not viewed as a structural modification to the original frame, but that is deemed as an acceptable part of the "bolt on" process for the DVLA inspection. The most important thing to remember with either of the conversions is that the swinging arm must still be able to be re-fitted, and with the trike conversion it’s always handy to have a bolt on solo sub-frame that can be fitted if required. Would you be required to demonstrate that for the DVLA? It's extremely unlikely, in fact I personally haven’t heard of that ever happening in practice, but if you ever get tired of 3 wheels, or the bad back which we all seem to end up with riding hard tails, it's there if you need it
There seems to be no difficulty in insuring radical customs, so a mildly-modified bike like that Yamaha would be no problem.
This is an extract from the Britchopper forum's guide to Building Custom Motorcycles and Trikes in the UK (thanks to Sooze, the forum MSVA expert).
However, for our purposes as custom builders it’s generally the frame/chassis that carries the main question mark, so what can you do to a standard frame before you get into radically altered territory?
The standard frame/chassis’s identity belongs to the main cradle, the seat rail height can be altered and the swinging arm can be altered or replaced but the main cradle must remain completely standard. If its structure or the steering geometry is modified it will be deemed as radically altered, and because of our system, where the "majority" of the vehicle's registered identity belongs to the un-modified frame/chassis, the vehicle's previously registered identity is lost.
Can you weld on a hard tail to a standard main cradle without affecting its identity? No, welding on the hardtail is viewed as changing the main cradle's structure, in effect by welding the frame cradle and hardtail together they have now become one component and the standard main cradle no longer exists.
Can you rake the headstock? No, this is radically altering the bike's steering geometry from its original specification and, in turn, it’s viewed as modifying the frames main cradle.
Single top tube conversion? No, even if the original geometry is kept it is still viewed as modifying the frame's main cradle.
Can you bolt on a hard tail? Yes, there are no regulations that state that you must have rear suspension on a motorcycle, and as long as the bolt on hard tail remains a reversible conversion the registered identity will be kept and the bike does not require an inspection.
Can you bolt on a trike conversion to a standard main cradle? Yes, this conversion must still remain reversible and the trike will need to be inspected by the DVLA or their appointed representative (Not VOSA) prior to its re-classification as a motorcycle derived tricycle, but the registered identity will be kept. Only its
vehicle classification is changed.
Now, in both of the bolt-on scenarios there will obviously, at least in most cases, be the necessity for the addition of bolt on points to the main frame and probably with a trike conversion some additional bracing around those bolt on points as well. It sounds like a contradiction to say that this is not viewed as a structural modification to the original frame, but that is deemed as an acceptable part of the "bolt on" process for the DVLA inspection. The most important thing to remember with either of the conversions is that the swinging arm must still be able to be re-fitted, and with the trike conversion it’s always handy to have a bolt on solo sub-frame that can be fitted if required. Would you be required to demonstrate that for the DVLA? It's extremely unlikely, in fact I personally haven’t heard of that ever happening in practice, but if you ever get tired of 3 wheels, or the bad back which we all seem to end up with riding hard tails, it's there if you need it
Edited by gareth_r on Wednesday 30th July 16:01
CB250N/CB400N conversion kit is available, anyone tried CRK? I quite fancy doing a 400 up like this
http://www.caferacerkits.co.uk/the-cafe-racer-kit/...
http://www.caferacerkits.co.uk/the-cafe-racer-kit/...
graham22 said:
A 30+ year old 250 wet dream or XS250 will struggle to reach 60 let alone cruise there, as for being chuckable they were just dull & felt like dead weight.
My (rather tired) 250 Superdream would just about touch 90 downhill with a following wind, but it would happily cruise at 75 all day. In fact I only had the choice of cruising at either 65 or 75 as there was a huge flat spot at 70 caused by the aftermarket 2 into 1 exhaust.Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff