Red Rose

Author
Discussion

Tuscanny

Original Poster:

215 posts

126 months

Friday 1st August 2014
quotequote all
Hi I have a Red Rose Tuscan and I have just driven a friends S .
Are there more Red Roses than S on the road are the Red Roses becoming harder to find .
There is nothing in performance between the two.
The Red Rose has had a engine rebuild and feels more torque than the S which is on the original engine.

Tuscanuwe

323 posts

195 months

Friday 1st August 2014
quotequote all
I you have a 4.3, no need for a red rose!
Red rose is a cheap Tuscan S.
And also red rose engines get blown, because of Indian parts inside

Uwe

wongthecorrupter

2,414 posts

171 months

Friday 1st August 2014
quotequote all
Tuscanuwe said:
I you have a 4.3, no need for a red rose!
Red rose is a cheap Tuscan S.
And also red rose engines get blown, because of Indian parts inside

Uwe
not sure that is the answer to the question

Tuscanny

Original Poster:

215 posts

126 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Never driven a 4.3 so can't comment on that .Not sure if I would want one.
The Red Rose has been rebuilt so no Indian parts I hope
But that's not what I was asking

wongthecorrupter

2,414 posts

171 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
pointless reply

Tuscanuwe

323 posts

195 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Sorry for misunderstanding,
The 4.3 has a forged crankshaft, all others not!!!!! This is the important Point!!
Performance should be nearly same for a Red Rose and Tuscan S engine!
The way to get more power should be nearly same for a Red Rose and S engine, but none of them has a forged crank.
But you even can find a normal engine which is as strong as a Red Rose
Red rose was named before Tvr found the Tuscan S.
So when Tuscan S (including several other upgrades not engine related) was released you did not get a Red Rose engine anymore.
I think Red Rose engines are more seldom than Tuscan s, due to lower numbers built.
If you feel that Red Rose is better performing, it can be result of rebuilt or
different cam timing of the Red Rose engine.
It is a fact that Tvr engines have a lot more spread in power and/or torque (and building tolerances)than other engines, due to hand built.
But for Buyers it should be most important to get a Tuscan with a proper rebuilt.
I know what i am saying, my 4.0 only run 2 years before needing rebuilt, my 4.0s MK2, got blown
after 600mls of my ownership.(but i still had my rebuilt engine in my hands, so it was only engine swap
to get my MK2 back on the road)

Uwe


wongthecorrupter

2,414 posts

171 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Tuscanuwe said:
Sorry for misunderstanding,
The 4.3 has a forged crankshaft, all others not!!!!! This is the important Point!!
Performance should be nearly same for a Red Rose and Tuscan S engine!
The way to get more power should be nearly same for a Red Rose and S engine, but none of them has a forged crank.
But you even can find a normal engine which is as strong as a Red Rose
Red rose was named before Tvr found the Tuscan S.
So when Tuscan S (including several other upgrades not engine related) was released you did not get a Red Rose engine anymore.
I think Red Rose engines are more seldom than Tuscan s, due to lower numbers built.
If you feel that Red Rose is better performing, it can be result of rebuilt or
different cam timing of the Red Rose engine.
It is a fact that Tvr engines have a lot more spread in power and/or torque (and building tolerances)than other engines, due to hand built.
But for Buyers it should be most important to get a Tuscan with a proper rebuilt.
I know what i am saying, my 4.0 only run 2 years before needing rebuilt, my 4.0s MK2, got blown
after 600mls of my ownership.(but i still had my rebuilt engine in my hands, so it was only engine swap
to get my MK2 back on the road)

Uwe
Good info, my red rose was rebuilt at power in 2008 and is going strong. I have never had to top up the oil as it hasn't used any. I think in the real world there isn't much to pick between all the tuscans apart from the modded cars, 4.3 - 4.5 etc

Tuscanny

Original Poster:

215 posts

126 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Well what can I say my tuscan had a rebuild to in 2008 and going strong .All I am asking is do you think there is less Red Roses than tuscan s on the road .

m4tti

5,427 posts

155 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Tuscanuwe said:
Sorry for misunderstanding,
The 4.3 has a forged crankshaft, all others not!!!!! This is the important Point!!
Performance should be nearly same for a Red Rose and Tuscan S engine!
The way to get more power should be nearly same for a Red Rose and S engine, but none of them has a forged crank.
But you even can find a normal engine which is as strong as a Red Rose
Red rose was named before Tvr found the Tuscan S.
So when Tuscan S (including several other upgrades not engine related) was released you did not get a Red Rose engine anymore.
I think Red Rose engines are more seldom than Tuscan s, due to lower numbers built.
If you feel that Red Rose is better performing, it can be result of rebuilt or
different cam timing of the Red Rose engine.
It is a fact that Tvr engines have a lot more spread in power and/or torque (and building tolerances)than other engines, due to hand built.
But for Buyers it should be most important to get a Tuscan with a proper rebuilt.
I know what i am saying, my 4.0 only run 2 years before needing rebuilt, my 4.0s MK2, got blown
after 600mls of my ownership.(but i still had my rebuilt engine in my hands, so it was only engine swap
to get my MK2 back on the road)

Uwe
Kind of misleading reply... Infact wrong.

Some of the early speed sixes had a plain cast crank as well as billet cranks in some of the red rose cars . Obviously the plain cast iron cranks had issues.

As the design progressed tvr moved to a ADI cranks. ADI stands for austempered ductile iron. I won't explain the process you can read about it here and how it was utilised in tvr crank design http://www.appliedprocess.com/Custom/Document/GetF...
The link compares it to billet cranks.


Chevy have used ADI cranks in LS engines these have all been good for over 500 hp. So an ADI crank in a speed six should really not be an issue. The primary issue is the rods. In a lot of the standard rebuilds the rods are reused.

Edited by m4tti on Sunday 3rd August 11:40

boardinscotland

1,219 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Tuscanny said:
Never driven a 4.3 so can't comment on that .Not sure if I would want one.
The Red Rose has been rebuilt so no Indian parts I hope
But that's not what I was asking
Will need to give you a shot of mine ;-) Did you have a shot of Richards?

G

Tuscanny

Original Poster:

215 posts

126 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
I did mate not much between them .I think with mines having the nitrons made a big difference in the handling.
I will take you up on that offer and see what this engine is all about.

boardinscotland

1,219 posts

196 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
Tuscanny said:
I did mate not much between them .I think with mines having the nitrons made a big difference in the handling.
I will take you up on that offer and see what this engine is all about.
Get back on the 15th (barring fog) and on Monday the 18th have a day at Knockhill so as long as its not raining I can really see what it can do. I really like the nitrons although mine is set up firm. Think my diff is getting worn though been looking at quaife ones.nuts

Catch you when I get back and see if we can go for a wee drive.

G

Edited by boardinscotland on Saturday 2nd August 22:25

wongthecorrupter

2,414 posts

171 months

Saturday 2nd August 2014
quotequote all
i reckon the the red rose is less common and in some ways more special as the Tuscan s is is no pretty car

stevieeg

269 posts

130 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
wongthecorrupter said:
i reckon the the red rose is less common and in some ways more special as the Tuscan s is is no pretty car
The S is still a Tuscan, so I'd definitely hesitate to say it wasn't pretty! But the spoiler is exactly that... Spoils the beautiful lines of the boot.

Curiously my car says Tuscan S in the V5 and on all the badging, but has the original rear end lights and bodywork. It has the RR tune engine and the uprated brakes of the S too but not the CR gearbox. I suspect there are probably quite a few cars with an "in between" spec.

wongthecorrupter

2,414 posts

171 months

Sunday 3rd August 2014
quotequote all
yes sorry, the spoiler kills the lines