Seats and steering..
Discussion
Bit back I drove a tuscan at racing green. Seriously considering going for one - can't come up with anything else that has the sense of occasion for similar money.
Few things I noticed that I wasn't too keen on:
Steering - odd feel, almost over-centre. Seemed to initially lighten either side of centre before loading up, and not want to go in a straight line. Normal?
Seats - I'm not 'powerfully built', and seemed to rattle from one side to the other on every corner. Other than spoiling it by putting a bucket in, any suggestions - presumably all the seats are the same?
Few things I noticed that I wasn't too keen on:
Steering - odd feel, almost over-centre. Seemed to initially lighten either side of centre before loading up, and not want to go in a straight line. Normal?
Seats - I'm not 'powerfully built', and seemed to rattle from one side to the other on every corner. Other than spoiling it by putting a bucket in, any suggestions - presumably all the seats are the same?
Seats shouldn't rattle, they've been silent on both my Tuscans,
The roof may well squeak and rattle a bit, rear screen too.
Both fixable with a variety of quick simple DIY remedies, (Velcro strips, silicone grease, runner renovator etc.)
Steering, mk1 or mk2/3? Mk1 is a very short rack and prone to lots of tramlining and bump steer, plenty can be done to help but I've yet to drive a mk1 which wasn't a bit lively at speed, especially on bumpy or undulating roads.
Both mine have been pretty much bump steer free following fitment of decent coil overs and a GOOD geo setup. (Not your local 4 wheel alignment place, somewhere specialised)
Tramlining still there on the current one, new rubber next weekend should help.
Some aero fixes (front splitter) can help with light steering feel at speed.
The roof may well squeak and rattle a bit, rear screen too.
Both fixable with a variety of quick simple DIY remedies, (Velcro strips, silicone grease, runner renovator etc.)
Steering, mk1 or mk2/3? Mk1 is a very short rack and prone to lots of tramlining and bump steer, plenty can be done to help but I've yet to drive a mk1 which wasn't a bit lively at speed, especially on bumpy or undulating roads.
Both mine have been pretty much bump steer free following fitment of decent coil overs and a GOOD geo setup. (Not your local 4 wheel alignment place, somewhere specialised)
Tramlining still there on the current one, new rubber next weekend should help.
Some aero fixes (front splitter) can help with light steering feel at speed.
ILoveMondeo I think you might find the OP meant that he rattled round in the Tuscans seat not that the seat itself rattled.
OP if the above is the case then lower section of the seat squab is removable to allow you to sit a bit lower down in the seat which some find helps.
Some, me for one, find the seats which were used in the T350,s/Tamoras better. All the seats were apparently based on the same sub frames so if you find them better a good trimmer should be able to alter the Tuscans ones to make them work better.
Have read that taking the back off the seat and removing a 25mm slice of the foam works but don't know anyone who has actually done so.
Best thing I found was a set of the Sparco seats that were going to be fitted to the next generation Sags, quite rare but personally worth searching out.
OP if the above is the case then lower section of the seat squab is removable to allow you to sit a bit lower down in the seat which some find helps.
Some, me for one, find the seats which were used in the T350,s/Tamoras better. All the seats were apparently based on the same sub frames so if you find them better a good trimmer should be able to alter the Tuscans ones to make them work better.
Have read that taking the back off the seat and removing a 25mm slice of the foam works but don't know anyone who has actually done so.
Best thing I found was a set of the Sparco seats that were going to be fitted to the next generation Sags, quite rare but personally worth searching out.
Thanks - yes, the car was quiet (sorry, rattle free - not sure I could describe a tuscan as quiet!), but my backside is too small for the seat; surprised me 'cos I've never been accused of being skinny before 
Was indeed a mk1 - tbh, although I hear the 2's are a lot better, 1) they're a heap more money, 2) I don't think they look as good from the back, or the inside the newer dash I saw in the sag and some of the later tuscans (I think) just seems a bit dull.
Familiar with the 4 wheel alignment drill, that's fine. Don't really want to be going down the line of substantially modifying it tho, much more inclined to keep cars stock.
Was indeed a mk1 - tbh, although I hear the 2's are a lot better, 1) they're a heap more money, 2) I don't think they look as good from the back, or the inside the newer dash I saw in the sag and some of the later tuscans (I think) just seems a bit dull.
Familiar with the 4 wheel alignment drill, that's fine. Don't really want to be going down the line of substantially modifying it tho, much more inclined to keep cars stock.
Mmm...in all seriousness, perhaps you should avoid the Tuscan then as they left the factory in poor states. I've upgraded the shocks, bushes and spacers as well as splitter and spoiler, only now is the car starting to be a serious piece of kit.
I don't think I've actually come across anyone that has a 100% standard Tuscan as it came from the factory. (Prepares to be corrected)
I don't think I've actually come across anyone that has a 100% standard Tuscan as it came from the factory. (Prepares to be corrected)
haha, yes, YOU rattling in the seats! Must read OP more carefully! Sorry!
As B3NNL says, not many who want to drive their Tuscan enthusiastically can live with the standard setup, it's pretty poor.
Coilovers are on many of the cars out there now, Nitrons and Gaz Gold are popular choices, both very good. A decent setup of these will probably result in a car that sits a bit better on its wheels with a decent ride height, you wont get the best handling by slamming it to the floor, it'll still look standard!
Front splitters are very subtle and aren't too obtrusive to the original looks. Depends how fast you want to drive it and keep the front end down! There's a cherry red one in the classifieds which has one fitted if you're after pics...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Had one on my last Tuscan but not the current one, my need for max' speed where they help has reduced, triple figures are a thing of the past for me. You can still tell the difference at normal motorway speeds though.
As B3NNL says, not many who want to drive their Tuscan enthusiastically can live with the standard setup, it's pretty poor.
Coilovers are on many of the cars out there now, Nitrons and Gaz Gold are popular choices, both very good. A decent setup of these will probably result in a car that sits a bit better on its wheels with a decent ride height, you wont get the best handling by slamming it to the floor, it'll still look standard!
Front splitters are very subtle and aren't too obtrusive to the original looks. Depends how fast you want to drive it and keep the front end down! There's a cherry red one in the classifieds which has one fitted if you're after pics...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Had one on my last Tuscan but not the current one, my need for max' speed where they help has reduced, triple figures are a thing of the past for me. You can still tell the difference at normal motorway speeds though.
ILoveMondeo said:
haha, yes, YOU rattling in the seats! Must read OP more carefully! Sorry!
As B3NNL says, not many who want to drive their Tuscan enthusiastically can live with the standard setup, it's pretty poor.
Coilovers are on many of the cars out there now, Nitrons and Gaz Gold are popular choices, both very good. A decent setup of these will probably result in a car that sits a bit better on its wheels with a decent ride height, you wont get the best handling by slamming it to the floor, it'll still look standard!
Front splitters are very subtle and aren't too obtrusive to the original looks. Depends how fast you want to drive it and keep the front end down! There's a cherry red one in the classifieds which has one fitted if you're after pics...
Hey don't apologise for offering advice, I only went for the type of rattling that the OP was talking about as it was how I found the Tuscan seats to be.As B3NNL says, not many who want to drive their Tuscan enthusiastically can live with the standard setup, it's pretty poor.
Coilovers are on many of the cars out there now, Nitrons and Gaz Gold are popular choices, both very good. A decent setup of these will probably result in a car that sits a bit better on its wheels with a decent ride height, you wont get the best handling by slamming it to the floor, it'll still look standard!
Front splitters are very subtle and aren't too obtrusive to the original looks. Depends how fast you want to drive it and keep the front end down! There's a cherry red one in the classifieds which has one fitted if you're after pics...
On the suspension front I would have to say that I found the Nitrons to be a bit harsh for my taste but that type of thing is very subjective. They were very good for road holding but I just didn't find them very comfortable, I am sure those in the know would be able to suggest different spring or valve rates to sort that out though.
Yup, all advice appreciated
OK, taking a step back..
Liked the tuscan when I first saw it. Still think it looks the nuts. Sag maybe more modern, but there's something about the Tuscan, and none of the others come close. Love the (mk1?) interior. Brass, ally, crazy console. Bit 'steampunk', and really different. Just sitting in it makes me smile. Don't like the spoiler they put on some, or the 'modern' flush rear lights. For me it looses cohesiveness. Never even considered owning one until a couple of months ago one of the 100k garage articles made me fall off my chair and go 'how much?' Damn... since then the idea's kinda taken hold!
As to modifying cars, I tend to be of the opinion that the guys who screwed it together know more than most of us, and what 'feels' fast isn't necessarily so. Some folks have a compulsive need to 'improve' cars - that's their business, but 'improve' is very very subjective - hence my concern/skepticism wrt modification. In terms of significant car history, Impreza, Boxster, and (oddly) a cheap as mx5. All been totally stock, and been able to lap all of them faster than most modified examples; boy have I seen some nasty things done to the first and last of those.. (oh, and I've *never* ridden in a car where I thought polybushes improved it
)
Realistically I'd not want to spend much more than 20k, ideally a bit under, but negotiable - that's what I have sitting in the bank and I'm not inclined to use finance.
Now, I appreciate they're not exactly japanese reliable, but I'm fairly handy with spanners, and not too intimidated. Ideally looking for something with some kind of rebuild in it's past, recent clutch, and plenty of history. Not bothered about age, but interior colours may be a show stopper (seriously, who specified some of these combos!?)
Spec wise, I guess with any car it's 'on condition' at this kind of age, but I would kinda like a 4.0 vs the 3.6 - I had also assumed that anything with that sort of power and drivetrain layout would have an LSD, though something I saw (here?) recently is causing me to question that. Anyone clarify?
Other thing I'm wondering is what values are doing? Had heard a rumour they're on the up (very skeptical, never had a car that's not depreciated), aside of running costs am I likely to loose a ton in depreciation, or just a steady decline?
All thoughts welcome - anything I'm missing, ought to consider, etc.
Cheers.
Mark.
OK, taking a step back..
Liked the tuscan when I first saw it. Still think it looks the nuts. Sag maybe more modern, but there's something about the Tuscan, and none of the others come close. Love the (mk1?) interior. Brass, ally, crazy console. Bit 'steampunk', and really different. Just sitting in it makes me smile. Don't like the spoiler they put on some, or the 'modern' flush rear lights. For me it looses cohesiveness. Never even considered owning one until a couple of months ago one of the 100k garage articles made me fall off my chair and go 'how much?' Damn... since then the idea's kinda taken hold!
As to modifying cars, I tend to be of the opinion that the guys who screwed it together know more than most of us, and what 'feels' fast isn't necessarily so. Some folks have a compulsive need to 'improve' cars - that's their business, but 'improve' is very very subjective - hence my concern/skepticism wrt modification. In terms of significant car history, Impreza, Boxster, and (oddly) a cheap as mx5. All been totally stock, and been able to lap all of them faster than most modified examples; boy have I seen some nasty things done to the first and last of those.. (oh, and I've *never* ridden in a car where I thought polybushes improved it
)Realistically I'd not want to spend much more than 20k, ideally a bit under, but negotiable - that's what I have sitting in the bank and I'm not inclined to use finance.
Now, I appreciate they're not exactly japanese reliable, but I'm fairly handy with spanners, and not too intimidated. Ideally looking for something with some kind of rebuild in it's past, recent clutch, and plenty of history. Not bothered about age, but interior colours may be a show stopper (seriously, who specified some of these combos!?)
Spec wise, I guess with any car it's 'on condition' at this kind of age, but I would kinda like a 4.0 vs the 3.6 - I had also assumed that anything with that sort of power and drivetrain layout would have an LSD, though something I saw (here?) recently is causing me to question that. Anyone clarify?
Other thing I'm wondering is what values are doing? Had heard a rumour they're on the up (very skeptical, never had a car that's not depreciated), aside of running costs am I likely to loose a ton in depreciation, or just a steady decline?
All thoughts welcome - anything I'm missing, ought to consider, etc.
Cheers.
Mark.
upsidedownmark said:
Yup, all advice appreciated
OK, taking a step back..
Liked the tuscan when I first saw it. Still think it looks the nuts. Sag maybe more modern, but there's something about the Tuscan, and none of the others come close. Love the (mk1?) interior. Brass, ally, crazy console. Bit 'steampunk', and really different. Just sitting in it makes me smile. Don't like the spoiler they put on some, or the 'modern' flush rear lights. For me it looses cohesiveness. Never even considered owning one until a couple of months ago one of the 100k garage articles made me fall off my chair and go 'how much?' Damn... since then the idea's kinda taken hold!
As to modifying cars, I tend to be of the opinion that the guys who screwed it together know more than most of us, and what 'feels' fast isn't necessarily so. Some folks have a compulsive need to 'improve' cars - that's their business, but 'improve' is very very subjective - hence my concern/skepticism wrt modification. In terms of significant car history, Impreza, Boxster, and (oddly) a cheap as mx5. All been totally stock, and been able to lap all of them faster than most modified examples; boy have I seen some nasty things done to the first and last of those.. (oh, and I've *never* ridden in a car where I thought polybushes improved it )
Realistically I'd not want to spend much more than 20k, ideally a bit under, but negotiable - that's what I have sitting in the bank and I'm not inclined to use finance.
Now, I appreciate they're not exactly japanese reliable, but I'm fairly handy with spanners, and not too intimidated. Ideally looking for something with some kind of rebuild in it's past, recent clutch, and plenty of history. Not bothered about age, but interior colours may be a show stopper (seriously, who specified some of these combos!?)
Spec wise, I guess with any car it's 'on condition' at this kind of age, but I would kinda like a 4.0 vs the 3.6 - I had also assumed that anything with that sort of power and drivetrain layout would have an LSD, though something I saw (here?) recently is causing me to question that. Anyone clarify?
Other thing I'm wondering is what values are doing? Had heard a rumour they're on the up (very skeptical, never had a car that's not depreciated), aside of running costs am I likely to loose a ton in depreciation, or just a steady decline?
All thoughts welcome - anything I'm missing, ought to consider, etc.
Cheers.
Mark.
Values of Tuscans have gone up marginally over the last 3 years (I think I read some report of them increasing around 11%). You used to be able to get something in the early teens which was Cat clear but now prices tend to start around 15k.OK, taking a step back..
Liked the tuscan when I first saw it. Still think it looks the nuts. Sag maybe more modern, but there's something about the Tuscan, and none of the others come close. Love the (mk1?) interior. Brass, ally, crazy console. Bit 'steampunk', and really different. Just sitting in it makes me smile. Don't like the spoiler they put on some, or the 'modern' flush rear lights. For me it looses cohesiveness. Never even considered owning one until a couple of months ago one of the 100k garage articles made me fall off my chair and go 'how much?' Damn... since then the idea's kinda taken hold!
As to modifying cars, I tend to be of the opinion that the guys who screwed it together know more than most of us, and what 'feels' fast isn't necessarily so. Some folks have a compulsive need to 'improve' cars - that's their business, but 'improve' is very very subjective - hence my concern/skepticism wrt modification. In terms of significant car history, Impreza, Boxster, and (oddly) a cheap as mx5. All been totally stock, and been able to lap all of them faster than most modified examples; boy have I seen some nasty things done to the first and last of those.. (oh, and I've *never* ridden in a car where I thought polybushes improved it
)Realistically I'd not want to spend much more than 20k, ideally a bit under, but negotiable - that's what I have sitting in the bank and I'm not inclined to use finance.
Now, I appreciate they're not exactly japanese reliable, but I'm fairly handy with spanners, and not too intimidated. Ideally looking for something with some kind of rebuild in it's past, recent clutch, and plenty of history. Not bothered about age, but interior colours may be a show stopper (seriously, who specified some of these combos!?)
Spec wise, I guess with any car it's 'on condition' at this kind of age, but I would kinda like a 4.0 vs the 3.6 - I had also assumed that anything with that sort of power and drivetrain layout would have an LSD, though something I saw (here?) recently is causing me to question that. Anyone clarify?
Other thing I'm wondering is what values are doing? Had heard a rumour they're on the up (very skeptical, never had a car that's not depreciated), aside of running costs am I likely to loose a ton in depreciation, or just a steady decline?
All thoughts welcome - anything I'm missing, ought to consider, etc.
Cheers.
Mark.
You need to put the modding thing as you understand it out of your head. These are essentially boutique cars delivering top level (for there era) performance on a budget. The only mods that are typically done are to improve mechanical reliability and driving stability. The later of which will reduce near death experiences.
m4tti said:
You need to put the modding thing as you understand it out of your head. These are essentially boutique cars delivering top level (for there era) performance on a budget. The only mods that are typically done are to improve mechanical reliability and driving stability. The later of which will reduce near death experiences.
Think Eagle E-type or Singer Porsche rather than putting coilover, big brakes and a huge intercooler/turbo on an Impreza to double its bhp. Typically the last 5-10 per cent of development on a TVR will be left to the owner - which is somehow fair enough IMO as they got supercar performance and drama for 'normal' prices...
900T-R said:
Think Eagle E-type or Singer Porsche rather than putting coilover, big brakes and a huge intercooler/turbo on an Impreza to double its bhp. Typically the last 5-10 per cent of development on a TVR will be left to the owner - which is somehow fair enough IMO as they got supercar performance and drama for 'normal' prices...
Marto said:
+1 from me too. I have made small upgrades to the car. I enjoy the odd track day, so I have beefed up the suspension and brakes + popped a set of ROTA alloys on. All very minor, but it's a material enchancment to the enjoyment of the car.
Slightly off topic, but could you put a picture up of the Rota wheels please Marto. Thats one of the things that bugs me about the cars is the Alloy of Iron they have used for the wheels. Are they noticeably lighter than the standard spiders. Ok, so what kinda stuff are we looking at? I've no problem with the lip spoiler (wouldn't have realised that wasn't standard), can see they could've used an off the shelf rack that lead to funny geometry changes.. Presumably short of major surgery you're stuck with existing suspension pickups, wishbones etc., so it's down to what you can do with the adjustment, and fitting different spring/damper units doesn't change much?
Or to put it another way, what are the desireables that mark out a 'sorted' tuscan vs one that is not?
Or to put it another way, what are the desireables that mark out a 'sorted' tuscan vs one that is not?
I'm currently preparing for a ground-up Tuscan rebuild (car still needs to come from across the Channel but the way I understand it the generla lack of composure is a result of a combination of things, compounded by the feel of very quick and light steering -
- front wheel geometry (several upper wishbone iterations having passed during the early years)
- steering rack length & height (also different OE iterations about)
- wheel & tyre specification:
All on top of the fact that it's pretty much the hardest thing to set up a lightweight car on a smallish footprint (especially wheelbase) with a massive amount of power going to the rear wheels from a front mounted engine. You want it soft to get the traction and friendliness at the limit/on bumpy roads, but then again you need the body control at the very high speeds the car is likely to reach on smooth open roads...
- front wheel geometry (several upper wishbone iterations having passed during the early years)
- steering rack length & height (also different OE iterations about)
- wheel & tyre specification:
- the 18-inch Spiders having a wrong offset for the front ever since the specification for the 'big' Red Rose/Tuscan S discs went from a two piece to a single piece disc with different bell thicknesses at the hub), this can be counteracted with a 5 mm spacer on each side
- The Spiders, again, being a compromise as in the same width and offsets being used for front and rear wheels
- And they're also very heavy
- Then, to compound the issue, 35 section front tyres are not an ideal choice for a front end that's already on the hyperactive side of 'alert' - the cars are reported to be much more managable on the std 16" wheel/tyre combo (that nobody ordered)
- Spring and damper set up all wrong, probably because it was set up to be quite soft and progressive, then they found at a very late stage of development that the rear tyres were rubbing the arches so they had to stiffen things up in a hurry, then to add insult to injury everybody went for the 18" option for which the car wasn't developed in the first place (they were part of the 'Red Rose' package that sought to provide a more agressive set up for trackday/ hardcore road warriors, but at that point the basic set up had gone quite wrong so this was not going to improve things either ).
All on top of the fact that it's pretty much the hardest thing to set up a lightweight car on a smallish footprint (especially wheelbase) with a massive amount of power going to the rear wheels from a front mounted engine. You want it soft to get the traction and friendliness at the limit/on bumpy roads, but then again you need the body control at the very high speeds the car is likely to reach on smooth open roads...
upsidedownmark said:
Ok, so what kinda stuff are we looking at? I've no problem with the lip spoiler (wouldn't have realised that wasn't standard), can see they could've used an off the shelf rack that lead to funny geometry changes.. Presumably short of major surgery you're stuck with existing suspension pickups, wishbones etc., so it's down to what you can do with the adjustment, and fitting different spring/damper units doesn't change much?
Or to put it another way, what are the desireables that mark out a 'sorted' tuscan vs one that is not?
Ideally you want the later front wishbone and hub set up along with the spacers under the steering rack. The front upper arms were modified from late 2001. Marry that to fresh dampers all round with geometry and corner weighting performed. All of this will have a major affect on the way the car handles.Or to put it another way, what are the desireables that mark out a 'sorted' tuscan vs one that is not?
The rest of the mechanicals with regard to the engine side are down to personal preference.. either buy a car with a rebuilt engine or put about 7k - 8k away for a standard rebuild.
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