Tower Of London Poppies

[johnfm]

So, is it definitely lit and viewable at night? Cannot get there during the day at all - but want to see it before they remove it all

[Derek Smith]

Colonial said:

ChemicalChaos said:

Typically, the Guardian despises this wonderful display

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813473/Wh...

It's funny isn't it.

The very point of people dieing in the war was to guarantee our freedom to have those opinions (well, it was more series of pointless political posturing, but let's go with the accepted message for the moment).

The Mail is subverting that message in a nasty display of false patriotism.

The points raised in the Guardian article have been repeated elsewhere. In essence they suggest that such memorials should not be pretty but should shock. The reference to barbed wire is rather obvious and many might feel inarguable.

I read the Guardian article and thought that it was double edged: it criticised it as an art installation [surely every DM reader must be confused by having to support an art installation, an anathema for the readership} and as an effective remembrance of those who died in wars.

None of the statues put up around the country post WWI depicted soldiers sheltering in holes in the mud, with injuries, dysentery, and no hope, and perhaps for understandable reasons.

My grandmother, who lost 5 sons and more sons-in-law to the two world wars, did not see Remembrance Day as the sanitised self-congratulatory day we see today.

Someone suggested that a tank should drive across the ceramic poppies to bring reality to the installation. I can't argue with that.

[Derek Smith]

Guam said:

Ah yes cause the maximum offence to the maximum number of people to make some petty point.

The guys in Anonymous would be proud to call you friend Derek, perhaps you should get a mask?

Perhaps you should sit through Remembrance Day with your aunts outnumbering uncles by 8 to one and then consider whether the fact that the poppies are supposed to represent dead soldiers is a 'petty point'.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Derek Smith said:

Perhaps you should sit through Remembrance Day with your aunts outnumbering uncles by 8 to one and then consider whether the fact that the poppies are supposed to represent dead soldiers is a 'petty point'.

My Grandfather had his 16th birthday at the Dardenelles. He was gassed and never really recovered. The death certificate states that he died from Pneumonia, but it was a direct result of the dammage to his lungs from the gassing. My great uncle died of his wounds in the field hospital at Wimereux.

I've also lost close family and I've lost good friends in the various conflicts over the last 30 odd years. What makes your family's losses any more special Derek?

Quite frankly your comment about tanks and poppies is offensive in the extreme.

Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Tuesday 11th November 10:42

[Mr_B]

Colonial said:

ChemicalChaos said:

Typically, the Guardian despises this wonderful display

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2813473/Wh...

It's funny isn't it.

The very point of people dieing in the war was to guarantee our freedom to have those opinions (well, it was more series of pointless political posturing, but let's go with the accepted message for the moment).

The Mail is subverting that message in a nasty display of false patriotism.

The article probably wouldn't have had much notice when an art critic suggested it should have been made of bones, or whatever it was he did suggest. I think him and then the Guardian jumping on the Ukip point is what the key thing and difference is. It looked utterly cheap to make a cheap anti Ukip remark on the back of a well intentioned memorial. If you dislike the Mail's subverting, the the Guardian doing much the same with a cheap anti Ukip jibe aint any better.

Edited by Mr_B on Tuesday 11th November 11:18

[Slaav]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Derek Smith said:

Perhaps you should sit through Remembrance Day with your aunts outnumbering uncles by 8 to one and then consider whether the fact that the poppies are supposed to represent dead soldiers is a 'petty point'.

My Grandfather had his 16th birthday at the Dardenelles. He was gassed and never really recovered. The death certificate states that he died from Pneumonia, but it was a direct result of the dammage to his lungs from the gassing. My great uncle died of his wounds in the field hospital at Wimereux.

I've also lost close family and I've lost good friends in the various conflicts over the last 30 odd years. What makes your family's losses any more special Derek?

Quite frankly your comment about tanks and poppies is offensive in the extreme.

Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Tuesday 11th November 10:42

I hate to disagree on this highly emotive point.

I am lucky enough to have 'experienced' the installation several times. Truly magnificent! Moving. Thought provoking and brilliant.

I HATE modern art but this proves me wrong.

Then somebody said something akin to Derek. It was explained in a symbolic I way. This amazing, thought provoking installation has truly made a difference. If (eg) a vintage tank did run them all over and, once again, the symbolism was clear, then it may make MORE of a difference? Not an insult?

The explanation I am aware of was incredibly thought provoking yto a degree I was surprised by.

Derek has nothing to be ashamed of here.


As many clumsy arguments have stated, an awful lot of people died to allow Derek to voice his view. Not to support it but to allow it!

Let's not forget some of this.......

Apologies to anyone that disagrees or may be offended by this post. That is very far from my intention but if it has happened again, I am truly sorry.

Edited by Slaav on Tuesday 11th November 23:46

[Joey Ramone]

Agreed. Derek's broader point was valid imo, although not with respect to the act of a tank running over poppies.

There also seems to be a trend towards only memorialising those in the military who have lost their lives to war. More French civilians were killed on D-Day than allied servicemen,for example, yet facts like these tend to be obscured. As for the veneration of a particular segment of society purely because they wear a uniform, well I simply can't agree with that. Some do deserve public recognition for their extraordinary selflessness, bravery and devotion to service, that's for certain. But there's a swathe that don't. And before anyone gets on their high horse, I'm a part of that particular system so I see things clearly with my own eyes.

Edited by Joey Ramone on Wednesday 12th November 08:55

[knight]

My poppy turned up today, quite nicely presented and still with dirt on it

[longshot]

knight said:

My poppy turned up today, quite nicely presented and still with dirt on it

That was quick. Do you get the stalk with it?

[steviegunn]

Mine arrived last week, the rusty stalk is under the poppy laid out diagonally.

[NicD]

A truly great memorial and fund raiser - not to a crazy war (WW1) , but to the poor sods who fought and died.

[knight]

longshot said:

That was quick. Do you get the stalk with it?

Yep, as said above, it is in the bottom of the box, my order was 15,609. The guy who delivered it said there were over 21,000 at the Gatwick depot awaiting delivery!

[Lost soul]

knight said:

My poppy turned up today, quite nicely presented and still with dirt on it

That's was quick , looking forward to get mine

[Oystercatcher]

Mine arrived today, still wet and dirty in its bubble wrap

[TokyoSexwhale]

The OH is heading down to London this weekend - is there still anything to see? She's been told there are still some remaining...

Ta

[eliot]

Evidently have been up to usual antics of throwing parcels rather than delivering them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed...

This driver didn't even bother to stop the van:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFE8AIx4vj8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2HoxUT8R2U

[Planet Claire]

My mum received hers today but I'm still waiting for the two of mine.

[Russ35]

Mine arrived last week. One of the two my brother ordered at the same time has arrived this week.

My brothers seems to be a bit brighter than mine, so presumably not been out side as long as mine was.

[Axionknight]

Some nasty folk out there....

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/feb/1...

[Murph7355]

I hope the people who did it are traced and punished.

Would be interesting to know who they are and what their motives were. Far too many cretins around these days.