Ashamed to admit that i'm stuck and in need of help
Discussion
Essentially i'm in something of a Catch 22 position
I have been trying to find a new job for the last year with no luck. I reside in Aberdeen, so there are plenty of opportunities and i have even been to numerous interviews, but with no success.
I went straight into a banking position (big mistake) from Uni and have been unable to move up within the bank. This is due to the fact that i am not a salesperson and am unwilling to force products onto people that they do not need.
The problem is that my 4 years of experience counts for nothing outwith the bank. Finance companies don't count banking experience as finance related (i know why, it's silly but there's nothing i can do about it).
Oil and Gas don't count it as office experience.
I particularly want to move into admin as it is the area i excel in, but prospective employers do not see banking as an admin role. Despite explaining to them that nine tenths of my banking experience has been admin related.
Hence my reason for being stuck. I'm not sure where to go or what to do.
Any advice or information would be massively welcome
I have been trying to find a new job for the last year with no luck. I reside in Aberdeen, so there are plenty of opportunities and i have even been to numerous interviews, but with no success.
I went straight into a banking position (big mistake) from Uni and have been unable to move up within the bank. This is due to the fact that i am not a salesperson and am unwilling to force products onto people that they do not need.
The problem is that my 4 years of experience counts for nothing outwith the bank. Finance companies don't count banking experience as finance related (i know why, it's silly but there's nothing i can do about it).
Oil and Gas don't count it as office experience.
I particularly want to move into admin as it is the area i excel in, but prospective employers do not see banking as an admin role. Despite explaining to them that nine tenths of my banking experience has been admin related.
Hence my reason for being stuck. I'm not sure where to go or what to do.
Any advice or information would be massively welcome
phoenixz said:
I went straight into a banking position (big mistake) from Uni and have been unable to move up within the bank.
What area of banking? Business or retail? Branch or telephony?phoenixz said:
This is due to the fact that i am not a salesperson and am unwilling to force products onto people that they do not need.
You're a frontline employee, it's part of your job to promote (not force) the products & services of the company you work for. I'm sure you were aware of this when you started.phoenixz said:
I have been trying to find a new job for the last year with no luck. I reside in Aberdeen, so there are plenty of opportunities and i have even been to numerous interviews, but with no success.
phoenixz said:
The problem is that my 4 years of experience counts for nothing outwith the bank. Finance companies don't count banking experience as finance related (i know why, it's silly but there's nothing i can do about it).
Oil and Gas don't count it as office experience.
I particularly want to move into admin as it is the area i excel in, but prospective employers do not see banking as an admin role. Despite explaining to them that nine tenths of my banking experience has been admin related.
You're getting interviews though, so what sort of jobs were those for? They obviously thought your experience was relevant.Oil and Gas don't count it as office experience.
I particularly want to move into admin as it is the area i excel in, but prospective employers do not see banking as an admin role. Despite explaining to them that nine tenths of my banking experience has been admin related.
At the moment I can't get give any better advice then to keep trying and try not to get disheartened.
You could also try moving to a similar position at another bank. I know you're not necessarily enjoying your current role but you should be able to negotiate a better salary and you might find the culture to be a better fit for you.
Have you considered an Apprenticeship in Admin?
I'm currently finishing off my Level 3 (Level 4 being the highest) Apprenticeship in Business and Administration and I've enjoyed process enough that I'm starting another, similar one after this ends
Only thing is that since you've been to uni you won't be eligible for funding, so you'd have to persuade the potential employer to pay your training costs. But at the end of the day you would have a qualification in the area you want
I'm currently finishing off my Level 3 (Level 4 being the highest) Apprenticeship in Business and Administration and I've enjoyed process enough that I'm starting another, similar one after this ends
Only thing is that since you've been to uni you won't be eligible for funding, so you'd have to persuade the potential employer to pay your training costs. But at the end of the day you would have a qualification in the area you want
If you can't/won't sell the banks products, what hope have you got of selling yourself in an interview?
Assuming you either sit at the cashiers desk, or on the phone equivalent, that is basically customer service/admin (not really finance as you say), surely if you're getting interviews they know what it is, and if you sell the skills you've got and what you do each day it shouldn't be too hard to get into an admin role?
Assuming you either sit at the cashiers desk, or on the phone equivalent, that is basically customer service/admin (not really finance as you say), surely if you're getting interviews they know what it is, and if you sell the skills you've got and what you do each day it shouldn't be too hard to get into an admin role?
bugmenot said:
What area of banking? Business or retail? Branch or telephony?
Retail, Branchbugmenot said:
You're a frontline employee, it's part of your job to promote (not force) the products & services of the company you work for. I'm sure you were aware of this when you started.
Sadly i was not aware of this when i started. I (like the person above) believed that the banks had changed after 2009. When interviewing i was informed throughout that this was a customer service position and that the sales was a very small part of the role. Whilst that is mostly correct they failed to mention that you would be assessed only on that very small part regardless of your performance in other areas.Upon starting i discovered that since 2009 the targets had increased and more pressure had been put on staff to perform. Even after starting i was informed that if i didn't enjoy sales i could go down the management route. But, through the course of applying for a management position, i found out that the managers are hired purely on their sales performance
bugmenot said:
You're getting interviews though, so what sort of jobs were those for? They obviously thought your experience was relevant.
At the moment I can't get give any better advice then to keep trying and try not to get disheartened.
You could also try moving to a similar position at another bank. I know you're not necessarily enjoying your current role but you should be able to negotiate a better salary and you might find the culture to be a better fit for you.
Unfortunately i have learned (through other colleagues and friends) that the culture is the same in all high street banks. And salary is fairly non-negotiable.At the moment I can't get give any better advice then to keep trying and try not to get disheartened.
You could also try moving to a similar position at another bank. I know you're not necessarily enjoying your current role but you should be able to negotiate a better salary and you might find the culture to be a better fit for you.
Interesting that you mention "relevant" experience as the reason that most places give (when i ask for feedback) for not being hired is usually: "we chose a candidate with more relevant experience"
okgo said:
If you can't/won't sell the banks products, what hope have you got of selling yourself in an interview?
Hardly the same thing. I am willing to sell myself as i am a product that i believe in and feel strongly about.The problem in alot of the interviews i have had, is that the person interviewing is not the same person that filtered through the CVs.
One interviewer i went to had a stack of CVs on her desk and it took her a few minutes to find my one, then a few minutes to read through it.
But genuinely, thank you for your advice
To go down the management route you need to have sales, you want the management to get out of the current position yet don't want to sell.
How bad do you want management as I see an issue with your refusal to do it on the basis that you don't want to and want to bypass it... do the sales and then see if you can get onto the management track asap. Its a necessary evil you might have to do just to get out of the current situation.
Unfortunately to say if you are retail in branch, I can see why they don't count it as finance unless a PFA. What do you do in the branch? Personal advisor, etc?
How bad do you want management as I see an issue with your refusal to do it on the basis that you don't want to and want to bypass it... do the sales and then see if you can get onto the management track asap. Its a necessary evil you might have to do just to get out of the current situation.
Unfortunately to say if you are retail in branch, I can see why they don't count it as finance unless a PFA. What do you do in the branch? Personal advisor, etc?
phoenixz said:
Hardly the same thing. I am willing to sell myself as i am a product that i believe in and feel strongly about.
The problem in alot of the interviews i have had, is that the person interviewing is not the same person that filtered through the CVs.
One interviewer i went to had a stack of CVs on her desk and it took her a few minutes to find my one, then a few minutes to read through it.
But genuinely, thank you for your advice
Get a grip chap. Do you think everyone in a sales job really believes in their product? The problem in alot of the interviews i have had, is that the person interviewing is not the same person that filtered through the CVs.
One interviewer i went to had a stack of CVs on her desk and it took her a few minutes to find my one, then a few minutes to read through it.
But genuinely, thank you for your advice
Eric Mc said:
phoenixz said:
This is due to the fact that i am not a salesperson and am unwilling to force products onto people that they do not need.
Surely this still isn't going on?
Back in the day my ex used to work for a large financial service company in Aberdeen, as a receptionist. Everyday, the sales bods would arrive at work , log on, check what had the highest commission that day, and then try to sell as much of it possible regardless of any other considerations.
Sales people are sales people.
Leopards don't change their spots.
Despite having had their fingers burnt on a few 'products' over the years , the banks have managed to create hundreds of product and variations on a product, each designed for one aim... to make the bank money. The bank is only interested in selling these products.
Reality is that very few jobs don't involve some selling. Even in management/admin jobs far removed the "front line" selling is involved even if it's only your ideas and suggestions on how to improve. If you want to progress you will have to tackle this aversion. The choices are to either work in an area that you love so much that selling is intuitive, based on your natural enthusiasm, or learn how to do it through training and coaching. For most people it's not that difficult once you park your fears and prejudices. If you are lucky enough to be involved in something that you really believe in then it's not much to worry about though there is always scope for improvement.
Having contacts who work in retail banking I am sympathetic as the banks are pretty clueless and believe by piling on pressure on the front-line staff things will change. Giving people bigger targets rarely works unless they have the means to achieve them.
Having contacts who work in retail banking I am sympathetic as the banks are pretty clueless and believe by piling on pressure on the front-line staff things will change. Giving people bigger targets rarely works unless they have the means to achieve them.
There is "selling" and there is "hard selling".
If someone has a product or service which
a) the seller genuinely "believes in"
b) is genuinely of benefit to the customer
c) is genuinely APPROPRIATE for the customer
Then there is nothing wrong with making the customer aware of their options.
The line is drawn when staff are more or less forced to sell products or services that they may not truly understand (or are interested in understanding) and are not for the benefit of the customer but only for the benefit of the employer (and indirectly) for the employee.
I think that is the distinction between ethical business and "shark" business. In ethical business the customer comes first. In a "shark" business, the customer is a patsy to be sucked dry.
If someone has a product or service which
a) the seller genuinely "believes in"
b) is genuinely of benefit to the customer
c) is genuinely APPROPRIATE for the customer
Then there is nothing wrong with making the customer aware of their options.
The line is drawn when staff are more or less forced to sell products or services that they may not truly understand (or are interested in understanding) and are not for the benefit of the customer but only for the benefit of the employer (and indirectly) for the employee.
I think that is the distinction between ethical business and "shark" business. In ethical business the customer comes first. In a "shark" business, the customer is a patsy to be sucked dry.
Whilst i appreciate the responses I think that this thread has gone off on a complete tangent.
I was not asking for advice on selling, i have heard all of this already (including the unconstructive comments from OKGO)
I have no problem selling or implementing improvements in the work place or within the job. I have made many over the years that have greatly improved the working environment or made things vastly more efficient. As i said, I excel at administration, but am simply not cut out for the "hard sell".
What i am looking for is advice on how to get into a company where these improvements are taken into account and valued in terms of advancement. That is clearly not the banks.
I was not asking for advice on selling, i have heard all of this already (including the unconstructive comments from OKGO)
I have no problem selling or implementing improvements in the work place or within the job. I have made many over the years that have greatly improved the working environment or made things vastly more efficient. As i said, I excel at administration, but am simply not cut out for the "hard sell".
What i am looking for is advice on how to get into a company where these improvements are taken into account and valued in terms of advancement. That is clearly not the banks.
phoenixz said:
Whilst i appreciate the responses I think that this thread has gone off on a complete tangent.
I was not asking for advice on selling, i have heard all of this already (including the unconstructive comments from OKGO)
I have no problem selling or implementing improvements in the work place or within the job. I have made many over the years that have greatly improved the working environment or made things vastly more efficient. As i said, I excel at administration, but am simply not cut out for the "hard sell".
What i am looking for is advice on how to get into a company where these improvements are taken into account and valued in terms of advancement. That is clearly not the banks.
You are going to have to spell it out for us.I was not asking for advice on selling, i have heard all of this already (including the unconstructive comments from OKGO)
I have no problem selling or implementing improvements in the work place or within the job. I have made many over the years that have greatly improved the working environment or made things vastly more efficient. As i said, I excel at administration, but am simply not cut out for the "hard sell".
What i am looking for is advice on how to get into a company where these improvements are taken into account and valued in terms of advancement. That is clearly not the banks.
What are the examples of this:
'implementing improvements in the work place or within the job. I have made many over the years that have greatly improved the working environment or made things vastly more efficient.'
I implement improvements in the workplace that make things vastly more efficient... Yet... my improvements are optimisation of procedures to code/practices in code, which results in tasks taking seconds instead of minutes...
Same wording as you, but completely different meanings.
What did you improve on and what did you make more efficient.
Without more details its very very difficult for anyone to offer advice... at the moment you are talking like this:
There is a problem with you car and you are asking for help, so people are trying to advise and the only info you state is that its red and has 4 wheels... so can anyone help? you have given no detail at all, then you say that some of the help is not helpful at all, then tell us it has windows and an exhaust...
More info please as I have an idea for you but Im not going into it unless you say more details.
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