1st Subaru purchase
Discussion
I have just bought a 2003 wrx and wondered where you guys would recommend I take it for an ecu remap and brake upgrade. I am totally new to these cars so a bit green to say the least.
The car has done 72k with full history and is in immaculate condition, a testament to its previous owners (2).
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The car has done 72k with full history and is in immaculate condition, a testament to its previous owners (2).
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the Impreza fold! I'm 18 months down the line with mine but as they're the same cars a lot should be relevant, although it does depend how far you're wanting to take it and what your budget is. Also, you don't say where in the country you are, or how handy you are with spanners, but both of those will likely have an impact on recommendations. Personally, I don't find the Impreza to be a nightmare to work on as everything is so methodical and simple; a 1/2" socket set, a breaker bar and a buzz gun will see you dealing with most stuff.
First things first; mapping.
You basically have two options with this and they are ECUTek and Open Source and it very much depends on what your planned path is as to which is better value for money. I used Andy Forrest up here in Scotland who is s
t hot and well worth the travel. However, plenty of others are decent such as Scoobyclinic near Chesterfield or Jolly Green Monster and Race Dynamix further south (there are others too). E/T maps are essentially a licensed product and will come with an element of support should your mapper turn out to be duff but given that the above are all reputable, I wouldn't consider that to be a major selling point. It can allow for additional things such as pops and bangs but at £600 it's pricey. However, £200-250 of that is the licence and it offers true live mapping so the time taken to do the map is less, and therefore if you're planning lots of mods which will subsequently need further tweaks, it's much cheaper for those. In contrast, O/S is about £350 but isn't live and requires the map to be uploaded/downloaded. It doesn't offer quite so many features but if you're planning to get it mapped and leave it then it's far more cost effective. The downside is that any clown has acces to it so you do need to be more wary as they will be less of a known quantity. Stick with someone reputable though and you'll be fine. Subsequent tweaks, owing to the fact they take longer than on E/T, will be more pricey.
However, before you do any of that you should consider what mods you want to make. Personally I'm running cat-less (2.5") with an uprated fuel pump, Prodrive backbox, STI silicone intercooler hoses/Y-piece and a K&N filter with NGK PFR7B plugs (standard are 6B's). This enables you to maximise your map by removing the restrictions and should leave you somewhere around 280-300bhp. That got me 287bhp/291lb.ft and 284bhp/297lb.ft and totally transformed the car by bringing peak torque a clear 1000rpm down the rev range. That was mapped for Shell Nitro/Tesco Momentum and leaves you with two obvious downsides; the difficulty in getting through an MOT without any cats, and the need for octane booster (Millers CVL Turbo) when unable to get 98 or 99 RON fuel. However, that's totally worth it IMO. Sports cats are an alternative but do push the budget up. I would definitely get rid of the cat in the up-pipe (there are another two in the down pipe and centre section) as this is known to break up with the higher temperatures in a mapped car, as is the EGT probe. It's a bks of a job but you only need to do it once. Don't go too big for the turbo here as it kills spool - get an OEM STi one if you can as they're perfectly sized and good for 350bhp+. They also have the advantage of looking standard should an MOT tester be poking about. Also, you'll need a resistor in the EGT plug to fool the ECU into thinking the probe's still there as you don't want to map the light manually out as it is a good safety check!
In terms of parts I shopped around on ebay and spent a few months amassing bits so got all the mechanical side for under £250 (all but the exhaust decat sections were new) which meant that in total I spent just shy of £600 on getting those power & torque increases. If you want to upgrade your turbo too then go for it but there are others who can go through the various pitfalls of doing that. If you do go down that route a TD04 Hybrid would be my choice to keep the low down torque and minimise lag.
First things first; mapping.
You basically have two options with this and they are ECUTek and Open Source and it very much depends on what your planned path is as to which is better value for money. I used Andy Forrest up here in Scotland who is s
t hot and well worth the travel. However, plenty of others are decent such as Scoobyclinic near Chesterfield or Jolly Green Monster and Race Dynamix further south (there are others too). E/T maps are essentially a licensed product and will come with an element of support should your mapper turn out to be duff but given that the above are all reputable, I wouldn't consider that to be a major selling point. It can allow for additional things such as pops and bangs but at £600 it's pricey. However, £200-250 of that is the licence and it offers true live mapping so the time taken to do the map is less, and therefore if you're planning lots of mods which will subsequently need further tweaks, it's much cheaper for those. In contrast, O/S is about £350 but isn't live and requires the map to be uploaded/downloaded. It doesn't offer quite so many features but if you're planning to get it mapped and leave it then it's far more cost effective. The downside is that any clown has acces to it so you do need to be more wary as they will be less of a known quantity. Stick with someone reputable though and you'll be fine. Subsequent tweaks, owing to the fact they take longer than on E/T, will be more pricey.However, before you do any of that you should consider what mods you want to make. Personally I'm running cat-less (2.5") with an uprated fuel pump, Prodrive backbox, STI silicone intercooler hoses/Y-piece and a K&N filter with NGK PFR7B plugs (standard are 6B's). This enables you to maximise your map by removing the restrictions and should leave you somewhere around 280-300bhp. That got me 287bhp/291lb.ft and 284bhp/297lb.ft and totally transformed the car by bringing peak torque a clear 1000rpm down the rev range. That was mapped for Shell Nitro/Tesco Momentum and leaves you with two obvious downsides; the difficulty in getting through an MOT without any cats, and the need for octane booster (Millers CVL Turbo) when unable to get 98 or 99 RON fuel. However, that's totally worth it IMO. Sports cats are an alternative but do push the budget up. I would definitely get rid of the cat in the up-pipe (there are another two in the down pipe and centre section) as this is known to break up with the higher temperatures in a mapped car, as is the EGT probe. It's a b
ks of a job but you only need to do it once. Don't go too big for the turbo here as it kills spool - get an OEM STi one if you can as they're perfectly sized and good for 350bhp+. They also have the advantage of looking standard should an MOT tester be poking about. Also, you'll need a resistor in the EGT plug to fool the ECU into thinking the probe's still there as you don't want to map the light manually out as it is a good safety check! In terms of parts I shopped around on ebay and spent a few months amassing bits so got all the mechanical side for under £250 (all but the exhaust decat sections were new) which meant that in total I spent just shy of £600 on getting those power & torque increases. If you want to upgrade your turbo too then go for it but there are others who can go through the various pitfalls of doing that. If you do go down that route a TD04 Hybrid would be my choice to keep the low down torque and minimise lag.
Brakes...yeah, they're not great are they?! Here you have two options; go simple, or go big. When I got mine I knew things needed doing so I ordered up Godspeed discs for the front (£100) and got a set of Bluestuff NDX pads (£80 from a Scoobynet member). It's such a simple job I wouldn't bother getting someone else to do it (if you're anywhere in Central Scotland I'm more than happy to lend a hand), but it does depend on your mechanical abilities. The other thing to be wary of is seized pistons which are common. At the moment Camskill have refurbed OEM calipers for £150 a pair (with exchange) and given you have at least £80 in pistons, £20 in seals and £10 in paint you really aren't worth refurbing them on your own. This will make a big difference in the braking performance. However, and here is the catch; the brakes are always going to be a compromise. Pads make a huge difference but unless you're using stage rally pads you will run out of brakes. And if you're using those pads, while hot performance will be mega, the cold performance will suck...really suck. So once again it comes down to what you do with the car. If it's single high speed stops on A roads then go for a milder pad like Mintex M1144 or M1155 (or Ferodo DS2500). Performance Friction and a few others are great too but you can easily spend £250 on pads here... IMO Ferodo are about the best compromise while EBC are a bit flaky and unless you go Blue or Orange, a complete waste of time, and even then... Whatever you do the brakes should be bled with decent DOT 5.1 fluid with a high boiling temp, especially if using something like M1166.
The alternative is to do as I did once the car was mapped and the calipers began to get a bit gunged up; I spent the money on an AP CP5200 kit which comes with 330mm 4 pot calipers vs the OEM 294mm. Braking surface is nearly double what the OEM brakes are, not to mention the additional leverage from the 36mm larger rotor. These will just fit behind the OEM wheels too. I did this as after fifteen minutes of hard driving the brakes were crying enough, and even before that the performance wasn't blistering. Pricey yes, but definitely a massive step up in performance. It really allows you to drive the car harder and with more confidence as there is just so much more power in reserve relative to the OEM brakes.
If you're looking for some decent bits then either Alyn at AS Performance in the North East or Ian Godney down near South Wales are both highly recommended from personal experience.
The alternative is to do as I did once the car was mapped and the calipers began to get a bit gunged up; I spent the money on an AP CP5200 kit which comes with 330mm 4 pot calipers vs the OEM 294mm. Braking surface is nearly double what the OEM brakes are, not to mention the additional leverage from the 36mm larger rotor. These will just fit behind the OEM wheels too. I did this as after fifteen minutes of hard driving the brakes were crying enough, and even before that the performance wasn't blistering. Pricey yes, but definitely a massive step up in performance. It really allows you to drive the car harder and with more confidence as there is just so much more power in reserve relative to the OEM brakes.
If you're looking for some decent bits then either Alyn at AS Performance in the North East or Ian Godney down near South Wales are both highly recommended from personal experience.
There's one further element which I think is lacking, and therefore worthy of attention, and that's the suspension. I wouldn't necessarily advocate replacing everything, and definitely not with cheap (ie sub £1k) coilovers, but the minimum of sorting the geometry is well worth it. I've got 04 narrow body STI dampers and springs on mine and if truth be told, they can be a little stiff on the roughest roads. I think the ideal sweet spot are KYB Ultra SR dampers (STi spec) and Prodrive WRX springs which keep comfort but massively increase composure. Springs are about £50-80 used on ebay while the dampers are about £400 for 4 from Camskill. My opinion on ARB's differs from most; I haven't touched them. Why? Well the reason the Impreza responds well to a larger ARB on the back is to counteract its tendency to push wide; you can throw it into a corner, get on the power, and then use that to drive the car out of the corner. But, on tighter turns the outer edge of the front tyres will still scrub because there isn't enough caster angle to keep dynamic camber where it should be. Maximising camber through the OEM bolts should net you somewhere between 1.5 & 2.0 degrees but the SAI and castor will still see this diminish as you turn in (potentially giving positive camber in extreme cases). Fitting an Anti Lift Kit will help in part as it pushes the wishbone down (reducing anti-lift geometry, not increasing it) and also forwards (marginally increasing castor), both of which help increase front end grip and control. I went one step further and fitted Whiteline COM-C top mounts which increase both caster and camber, which can be further augmented with spacers between the wishbones and the rear pin that joins into the ALK.Theoretically you should be about 3.5deg stock, I'm expecting somewhere around 5.0deg at the moment and then up to 6.0deg is achievable with the plates. You can also flip this pin to increase caster as it's offset (Google NASIOC Free Caster Mod). Over 6.0deg is achievable but the general consensus amongst those who have tried it is that the handling gets a bit funky when you hit these. I also fitted Whiteline camber bolts at the back and maxed them to around 2deg.
Camber bolts (rear only): £20
Subframe lock kit: £20
Com-C top mounts: £130 - Gp.N rubber rather than solid adjustable top mounts so no difference in NVH.
CDF Anti Lift Kit: £130 - comfort bush and £40 cheaper than whiteline.
The turn in is now razor sharp and far better weighted than it was as stock without that feeling of the front end pushing wide or the front giving the impression that it's trying to tuck under itself. The rear end also has marginal toe out to help rotation and, with 70-100kg of gear in the back, the handling is even better with zero left foot trail braking really required to keep it on an even line. ARB's are one way of counteracting the problem but to me they treat the symptom rather than the cause and do so at the expense of independant wheel travel which is one of the WRX's real aces on rough roads. Track driving is different but to me the basic geometry mods are still key to these as they increase front end grip rather than decreasing it at the rear. I certainly have no issues with any front end pushing and a near 900 mile week in the north of Scotland showed zero feathering on the front tyre edges (Eagle F1 Asym II's) in stark contrast to the last time I was up there pre-mods.
Camber bolts (rear only): £20
Subframe lock kit: £20
Com-C top mounts: £130 - Gp.N rubber rather than solid adjustable top mounts so no difference in NVH.
CDF Anti Lift Kit: £130 - comfort bush and £40 cheaper than whiteline.
The turn in is now razor sharp and far better weighted than it was as stock without that feeling of the front end pushing wide or the front giving the impression that it's trying to tuck under itself. The rear end also has marginal toe out to help rotation and, with 70-100kg of gear in the back, the handling is even better with zero left foot trail braking really required to keep it on an even line. ARB's are one way of counteracting the problem but to me they treat the symptom rather than the cause and do so at the expense of independant wheel travel which is one of the WRX's real aces on rough roads. Track driving is different but to me the basic geometry mods are still key to these as they increase front end grip rather than decreasing it at the rear. I certainly have no issues with any front end pushing and a near 900 mile week in the north of Scotland showed zero feathering on the front tyre edges (Eagle F1 Asym II's) in stark contrast to the last time I was up there pre-mods.
Upgrade the discs and pads and get some braided hoses. The existing 4pots are just fine for a mapped WRX up to around 280. For a remap you really want to get the breathing done too so I'd suggest a stage one package like this from Scoobyworld http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/product_info....
If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
Ved said:
Upgrade the discs and pads and get some braided hoses. The existing 4pots are just fine for a mapped WRX up to around 280. For a remap you really want to get the breathing done too so I'd suggest a stage one package like this from Scoobyworld http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/product_info....
If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
That's not a bad price for a fully inclusive package, although if you've still got the ridiculously convoluted and therefore restrictive backbox on there it makes it a bit pricier at £1200+! The fact it includes ECUTek is good but I notice it doesn't seem to include new plugs or an uprated fuel pump, both of which are definitely recommended at those power levels. A set of plugs will be £40ish while a pump is anywhere from £60 (SWRD) to £85 (Walbro).If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
The brakes are fine for day to day driving, or fast sweeping A roads but if you're really punishing them they wilt remarkably early on the newage cars. On the older classics the standard 4 pot Sumitomo calipers were awesome but then those cars were 200kg+ lighter! Even with standard power they can struggle on the right (or indeed wrong) road if you're being enthusiastic.
Ennoch said:
Ved said:
Upgrade the discs and pads and get some braided hoses. The existing 4pots are just fine for a mapped WRX up to around 280. For a remap you really want to get the breathing done too so I'd suggest a stage one package like this from Scoobyworld http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/product_info....
If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
That's not a bad price for a fully inclusive package, although if you've still got the ridiculously convoluted and therefore restrictive backbox on there it makes it a bit pricier at £1200+! The fact it includes ECUTek is good but I notice it doesn't seem to include new plugs or an uprated fuel pump, both of which are definitely recommended at those power levels. A set of plugs will be £40ish while a pump is anywhere from £60 (SWRD) to £85 (Walbro).If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
The brakes are fine for day to day driving, or fast sweeping A roads but if you're really punishing them they wilt remarkably early on the newage cars. On the older classics the standard 4 pot Sumitomo calipers were awesome but then those cars were 200kg+ lighter! Even with standard power they can struggle on the right (or indeed wrong) road if you're being enthusiastic.
So long as the map is safe it's fine but if you want more then the WRX is the wrong car to start with. As for brakes they're fine for non-track work so it's a bit overkill to change everything if that's not the plan and OP didn't mention it. Great if you can do it though.
The best thing you can do would be a better ARB on the rear. That'll make it much more pointy without destroying the comfort and is a good base to learn how the cars drive and since you're new to these it's a better place to start than just putting more power down. You'll get more value and fun from the car that way as well.
Enjoy and get the pics up
Edited by Ved on Thursday 7th August 22:09
Ennoch said:
Ved said:
Upgrade the discs and pads and get some braided hoses. The existing 4pots are just fine for a mapped WRX up to around 280. For a remap you really want to get the breathing done too so I'd suggest a stage one package like this from Scoobyworld http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog/product_info....
If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
That's not a bad price for a fully inclusive package, although if you've still got the ridiculously convoluted and therefore restrictive backbox on there it makes it a bit pricier at £1200+! The fact it includes ECUTek is good but I notice it doesn't seem to include new plugs or an uprated fuel pump, both of which are definitely recommended at those power levels. A set of plugs will be £40ish while a pump is anywhere from £60 (SWRD) to £85 (Walbro).If you want a bespoke map afterwards it'll be pretty cheap with a good mapper as you'll have the Ecutek licence.
Now get some photos up
The brakes are fine for day to day driving, or fast sweeping A roads but if you're really punishing them they wilt remarkably early on the newage cars. On the older classics the standard 4 pot Sumitomo calipers were awesome but then those cars were 200kg+ lighter! Even with standard power they can struggle on the right (or indeed wrong) road if you're being enthusiastic.
So long as the map is safe it's fine but if you want more then the WRX is the wrong car to start with. As for brakes they're fine for non-track work so it's a bit overkill to change everything if that's not the plan and OP didn't mention it. Great if you can do it though.
The best thing you can do would be a better ARB on the rear. That'll make it much more pointy without destroying the comfort and is a good base to learn how the cars drive and since you're new to these it's a better place to start than just putting more power down. You'll get more value and fun from the car that way as well.
Enjoy and get the pics up
Edited by Ved on Thursday 7th August 22:10
TonyF said:
Thanks for the info Ennoch, you are very well versed with these cars obviously.
That gives me a wealth of information to mull over.
Thankyou.
No worries at all buddy, there's a lot of stuff out there for sure and it's just about narrowing it down to what is most relevant to you. I'm less fussed about peak power and more about torque and driveability/reliability day to day as it is my transport for going climbing and such, as well as for trips to mainland Europe. A track day toy it is not. As an example of the roads I have mine on regularly (should you be as geeky as I and wish to google map them) are between Gairloch & Gruinard; Dalwhinnie & Fort William; Dalkeith (B7007) to B709 (Innerleithen); Moffat to Innerleithen (A708-B709). It's all about the ability to handle rough roads in all weathers at decent pace. For me the Impreza is not at its best on smooth flowing roads, but instead for blasting through the hills on the broken country lanes where wheel travel, traction and predictability come into it. That gives me a wealth of information to mull over.
Thankyou.
You'll probably find some bushes will need done at various times given the age and the driving the car will see but I wouldn't be blinded like some on the forums by Whiteline parts. They're good, but Superpro are great quality too, cheaper, and for the likes of Anti Lift Kits CDF are also decent. Like anything, you get fanboys who can't see past certain companies but do your research and you'll be fine. Whiteline's ideas are great but their implementation and finish isn't always perfect! Their top mounts are awesome though and massively worthwhile.
You probably already either heard or have this but its worth a mention, back when I had my WRX ( have Impreza hatch now ) some 7/8 years ago someone had replaced the front tyres with the cheapest they could find. Swapping these back the eagle F1's made a significant improvement in the car for me , especially in the wet!
Enjoy your motor.
Enjoy your motor.
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