Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

[Silent1]

Chim said:

Heres one for you Flemke, helping out in this and we have Maclaren coming along with the possibility of some new metal. Would be good to see you there throwing your P1 against its peers, or even the F1 for that matter.

Longest Runway in the UK and I am sure I can arrange a few extra runs

http://standrewshospicefundraising.com/race-the-ru...

[Chim]

Silent1 said:

Nice Pram, is it fast. Not sure about the alloys though, could do with being a bit bigger. Also gouges, gouges are bad

[Liquid Knight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSehmnDPFxs

[flemke]

Google [bot] said:

I'd be interested in your comments on this Flemke. Chris Harris is extolling the benefits of the P1's usability, but IIRC you had a different take on things?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9VQ3ROolkyU&feat...

I have a lot of time for Chris and always enjoy his work.

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

On the road, Chris went on the motorway and on some deserted roads in Wales.

On the motorway, yes, the car performs pretty well, but you can use barely a third of its power and, although it is comfortable for a supercar, it is not comfortable for a GT, big Merc, or that sort of thing. The suspension is amazing, but it absolutely, positively has a substantially harsher ride than a proper saloon car does.

There is so much road noise that trying to have a hands-free phone conversation is not really possible.

Some may disagree, but I find the interface with the instrumentation very awkward and distracting.

As Chris says, rear quarter vision is bad, which is a real issue on motorways.

Luggage capacity is typical for a super car, actually it's less than on a 458 or 650, so in fact it is at the crap end of luggage space, similar to a 4WD car such as a Lambo.

Then Chris says, "Its physically, actually, not too big." He is wrong about this. The car is 1946mm wide (exclusive of mirrors). That is not the absolute widest car on the road, but it is bloody wide. For example, the F1 is 1820mm wide.

The problem, as Chris's comment demonstrates, is that it does not feel wide. This is because the passenger compartment is snug and there is not a lot of distance between the two occupants. However, there is a lot of width between the driver's left shoulder and the actual outer surface of the side of the bodywork. A major reason for this is to accommodate the trick aerodynamics. Regardless of the reason, the result is that the car is actually taking up a lot more of the road space than it seems from the driver's seat. This is not a good thing. (Ironically, if the driver's seat were in the middle, the car's width illusion would be much less of an issue, because the driver would need only to centre himself within any space.)

The other road driving part of Chris's video is on the near-deserted country roads of Wales. Indeed there is enough space to get more driving enjoyment in that environment, but how many of us leave near to the roads of Wales? Not many, which is precisely why they are near-deserted.

The P1 is probably less impractical than the LaFerrari is, but benchmarks don't get much lower than that.

The P1 is in many ways a wonderful thing, but "usable" in the conventional sense it is not. A Caterham 7 is overall as usable as a P1.

[Liquid Knight]

flemke said:

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

There's a nail hit on the head. It's the car's ability on the track and not the driver. I'm not saying any lummox can get in a P1 or other modern super or hyper (hyped) car and set the world on fire but all the flappy paddling and computers telling the wheels what to do have spoiled the party. There aren't many super cars that are drivers cars any more.

It's not just the lack of a proper gearbox it's something else. There's a missing spark when you drive something fast and know that you are the one driving it. You simply do not get that feeling in modern stuff. I had a great time driving an old 355 but didn't like the 458 very much at all. The R34 Skyline can be a bit of a handful but I wouldn't wee on an R35 GTR if it were on fire. The 996 GT3 was great but the 991 was disappointing. I understand it's all health and safety and manufacturers don't want customers families to get injury shysters 4U on the case when a football player runs out of talent and hits a line of people waiting for a bus, but it's as if they are saying "here's the best we can do, but we don't don't trust you so here a computerised set of training wheels".






Sorry

[buckle88]

I'm sure I heard Chris saying he hit the limiter in the p1 at 206mph?

I thought all the quoted speeds had it down at 217, I don't understand why they've limited it at 11mph under that?

[Silent1]

Chim said:

Silent1 said:

Nice Pram, is it fast. Not sure about the alloys though, could do with being a bit bigger. Also gouges, gouges are bad

I'm confused why maclaren are coming?

[Storer]

flemke said:

Google [bot] said:

I'd be interested in your comments on this Flemke. Chris Harris is extolling the benefits of the P1's usability, but IIRC you had a different take on things?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9VQ3ROolkyU&feat...

I have a lot of time for Chris and always enjoy his work.

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

On the road, Chris went on the motorway and on some deserted roads in Wales.

On the motorway, yes, the car performs pretty well, but you can use barely a third of its power and, although it is comfortable for a supercar, it is not comfortable for a GT, big Merc, or that sort of thing. The suspension is amazing, but it absolutely, positively has a substantially harsher ride than a proper saloon car does.

There is so much road noise that trying to have a hands-free phone conversation is not really possible.

Some may disagree, but I find the interface with the instrumentation very awkward and distracting.

As Chris says, rear quarter vision is bad, which is a real issue on motorways.

Luggage capacity is typical for a super car, actually it's less than on a 458 or 650, so in fact it is at the crap end of luggage space, similar to a 4WD car such as a Lambo.

Then Chris says, "Its physically, actually, not too big." He is wrong about this. The car is 1946mm wide (exclusive of mirrors). That is not the absolute widest car on the road, but it is bloody wide. For example, the F1 is 1820mm wide.

The problem, as Chris's comment demonstrates, is that it does not feel wide. This is because the passenger compartment is snug and there is not a lot of distance between the two occupants. However, there is a lot of width between the driver's left shoulder and the actual outer surface of the side of the bodywork. A major reason for this is to accommodate the trick aerodynamics. Regardless of the reason, the result is that the car is actually taking up a lot more of the road space than it seems from the driver's seat. This is not a good thing. (Ironically, if the driver's seat were in the middle, the car's width illusion would be much less of an issue, because the driver would need only to centre himself within any space.)

The other road driving part of Chris's video is on the near-deserted country roads of Wales. Indeed there is enough space to get more driving enjoyment in that environment, but how many of us leave near to the roads of Wales? Not many, which is precisely why they are near-deserted.

The P1 is probably less impractical than the LaFerrari is, but benchmarks don't get much lower than that.

The P1 is in many ways a wonderful thing, but "usable" in the conventional sense it is not. A Caterham 7 is overall as usable as a P1.

With your comments above you could have been describing my Ultima GTR in terms of practicality! However, you don't buy a car like this for it's practicality. In my opinion you are buying the 'theatre' that they provide. Nobody needs a 200+mph 2 seat car for practicality.

You are fortunate enough to have what is probably the only contradiction to my above comment, in the F1. But they are now having to package far more into the P1 and it was designed to be more high tech supercar and less GT.

[flemke]

Storer said:

flemke said:

Google [bot] said:

I'd be interested in your comments on this Flemke. Chris Harris is extolling the benefits of the P1's usability, but IIRC you had a different take on things?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9VQ3ROolkyU&feat...

I have a lot of time for Chris and always enjoy his work.

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

On the road, Chris went on the motorway and on some deserted roads in Wales.

On the motorway, yes, the car performs pretty well, but you can use barely a third of its power and, although it is comfortable for a supercar, it is not comfortable for a GT, big Merc, or that sort of thing. The suspension is amazing, but it absolutely, positively has a substantially harsher ride than a proper saloon car does.

There is so much road noise that trying to have a hands-free phone conversation is not really possible.

Some may disagree, but I find the interface with the instrumentation very awkward and distracting.

As Chris says, rear quarter vision is bad, which is a real issue on motorways.

Luggage capacity is typical for a super car, actually it's less than on a 458 or 650, so in fact it is at the crap end of luggage space, similar to a 4WD car such as a Lambo.

Then Chris says, "Its physically, actually, not too big." He is wrong about this. The car is 1946mm wide (exclusive of mirrors). That is not the absolute widest car on the road, but it is bloody wide. For example, the F1 is 1820mm wide.

The problem, as Chris's comment demonstrates, is that it does not feel wide. This is because the passenger compartment is snug and there is not a lot of distance between the two occupants. However, there is a lot of width between the driver's left shoulder and the actual outer surface of the side of the bodywork. A major reason for this is to accommodate the trick aerodynamics. Regardless of the reason, the result is that the car is actually taking up a lot more of the road space than it seems from the driver's seat. This is not a good thing. (Ironically, if the driver's seat were in the middle, the car's width illusion would be much less of an issue, because the driver would need only to centre himself within any space.)

The other road driving part of Chris's video is on the near-deserted country roads of Wales. Indeed there is enough space to get more driving enjoyment in that environment, but how many of us leave near to the roads of Wales? Not many, which is precisely why they are near-deserted.

The P1 is probably less impractical than the LaFerrari is, but benchmarks don't get much lower than that.

The P1 is in many ways a wonderful thing, but "usable" in the conventional sense it is not. A Caterham 7 is overall as usable as a P1.

With your comments above you could have been describing my Ultima GTR in terms of practicality! However, you don't buy a car like this for it's practicality. In my opinion you are buying the 'theatre' that they provide. Nobody needs a 200+mph 2 seat car for practicality.

You are fortunate enough to have what is probably the only contradiction to my above comment, in the F1. But they are now having to package far more into the P1 and it was designed to be more high tech supercar and less GT.

Strictly in terms of luggage capacity, width, and ride comfort (in standard form), you could call the F1 practical. With that carbon clutch, the heavy low-speed steering, the car's handling character, and without ABS or TC, however, the car's overall practicality plummets.

[h0b0]

flemke said:

I have a lot of time for Chris and always enjoy his work.

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

On the road, Chris went on the motorway and on some deserted roads in Wales.

On the motorway, yes, the car performs pretty well, but you can use barely a third of its power and, although it is comfortable for a supercar, it is not comfortable for a GT, big Merc, or that sort of thing. The suspension is amazing, but it absolutely, positively has a substantially harsher ride than a proper saloon car does.

There is so much road noise that trying to have a hands-free phone conversation is not really possible.

Some may disagree, but I find the interface with the instrumentation very awkward and distracting.

As Chris says, rear quarter vision is bad, which is a real issue on motorways.

Luggage capacity is typical for a super car, actually it's less than on a 458 or 650, so in fact it is at the crap end of luggage space, similar to a 4WD car such as a Lambo.

Then Chris says, "Its physically, actually, not too big." He is wrong about this. The car is 1946mm wide (exclusive of mirrors). That is not the absolute widest car on the road, but it is bloody wide. For example, the F1 is 1820mm wide.

The problem, as Chris's comment demonstrates, is that it does not feel wide. This is because the passenger compartment is snug and there is not a lot of distance between the two occupants. However, there is a lot of width between the driver's left shoulder and the actual outer surface of the side of the bodywork. A major reason for this is to accommodate the trick aerodynamics. Regardless of the reason, the result is that the car is actually taking up a lot more of the road space than it seems from the driver's seat. This is not a good thing. (Ironically, if the driver's seat were in the middle, the car's width illusion would be much less of an issue, because the driver would need only to centre himself within any space.)

The other road driving part of Chris's video is on the near-deserted country roads of Wales. Indeed there is enough space to get more driving enjoyment in that environment, but how many of us leave near to the roads of Wales? Not many, which is precisely why they are near-deserted.

The P1 is probably less impractical than the LaFerrari is, but benchmarks don't get much lower than that.

The P1 is in many ways a wonderful thing, but "usable" in the conventional sense it is not. A Caterham 7 is overall as usable as a P1.

Here is the issue presented in photos

pinkstigsupercar said:

A Mclaren P1 my dad spotted last year

The car should fit in the space and not overhang like a Ford F150. I accept the P1 could be closer to the curb but still, the point stands

[Storer]

flemke said:

Storer said:

flemke said:

Google [bot] said:

I'd be interested in your comments on this Flemke. Chris Harris is extolling the benefits of the P1's usability, but IIRC you had a different take on things?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9VQ3ROolkyU&feat...

I have a lot of time for Chris and always enjoy his work.

Let's leave to one side the car's abilities on a circuit which, although deeply impressive, do not interest me.

On the road, Chris went on the motorway and on some deserted roads in Wales.

On the motorway, yes, the car performs pretty well, but you can use barely a third of its power and, although it is comfortable for a supercar, it is not comfortable for a GT, big Merc, or that sort of thing. The suspension is amazing, but it absolutely, positively has a substantially harsher ride than a proper saloon car does.

There is so much road noise that trying to have a hands-free phone conversation is not really possible.

Some may disagree, but I find the interface with the instrumentation very awkward and distracting.

As Chris says, rear quarter vision is bad, which is a real issue on motorways.

Luggage capacity is typical for a super car, actually it's less than on a 458 or 650, so in fact it is at the crap end of luggage space, similar to a 4WD car such as a Lambo.

Then Chris says, "Its physically, actually, not too big." He is wrong about this. The car is 1946mm wide (exclusive of mirrors). That is not the absolute widest car on the road, but it is bloody wide. For example, the F1 is 1820mm wide.

The problem, as Chris's comment demonstrates, is that it does not feel wide. This is because the passenger compartment is snug and there is not a lot of distance between the two occupants. However, there is a lot of width between the driver's left shoulder and the actual outer surface of the side of the bodywork. A major reason for this is to accommodate the trick aerodynamics. Regardless of the reason, the result is that the car is actually taking up a lot more of the road space than it seems from the driver's seat. This is not a good thing. (Ironically, if the driver's seat were in the middle, the car's width illusion would be much less of an issue, because the driver would need only to centre himself within any space.)

The other road driving part of Chris's video is on the near-deserted country roads of Wales. Indeed there is enough space to get more driving enjoyment in that environment, but how many of us leave near to the roads of Wales? Not many, which is precisely why they are near-deserted.

The P1 is probably less impractical than the LaFerrari is, but benchmarks don't get much lower than that.

The P1 is in many ways a wonderful thing, but "usable" in the conventional sense it is not. A Caterham 7 is overall as usable as a P1.

With your comments above you could have been describing my Ultima GTR in terms of practicality! However, you don't buy a car like this for it's practicality. In my opinion you are buying the 'theatre' that they provide. Nobody needs a 200+mph 2 seat car for practicality.

You are fortunate enough to have what is probably the only contradiction to my above comment, in the F1. But they are now having to package far more into the P1 and it was designed to be more high tech supercar and less GT.

Strictly in terms of luggage capacity, width, and ride comfort (in standard form), you could call the F1 practical. With that carbon clutch, the heavy low-speed steering, the car's handling character, and without ABS or TC, however, the car's overall practicality plummets.

But it is those factors that also provide a lot of the 'theatre' and 'raw pleasure' of the car and helps to make driving it a special occasion. Life is about those 'special occasions'.

Paul

[Monty Python]

Flemke, do you intend to keep the P1 or replace it with something more "usable"?

[Soov535]

Monty Python said:

Flemke, do you intend to keep the P1 or replace it with something more "usable"?

I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?

[Monty Python]

Soov535 said:

I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?

IMHO the 675LT is the pick of the range at the moment (in Onyx Black), although I think the cockpit could do with a bit more colour - everything seems to be black or carbon-fibre, although I'm sure if you ask they'll do something different (and charge you extra in the process).

Edited by Monty Python on Tuesday 31st March 10:31

[Soov535]

Monty Python said:

Soov535 said:

I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?

IMHO the 675LT is the pick of the range at the moment, although I think the cockpit could do with a bit more colour - everything seems to be black or carbon-fibre, although I'm sure if you ask they'll do something different (and charge you extra in the process).

1000%.

The 675LT has the looks and the exclusivity, and frnakly pretty ridiculous performance. Although my favourite so far is the 650LM with the roof scoop and the F1 style alloys. If I had the cash I'd be in like a robber's dog.

http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/650s-le-...




Oh to be troubled by such decisions!

Mr f - are you tempted by the 650LM over the 675LT and if not what made your decision. I think the 650LM is sublime.

Edited by Soov535 on Tuesday 31st March 10:05

[ManFromDelmonte]

Flemke,

Any initial thoughts on the 570S?

[isaldiri]

Soov535 said:

1000%.

The 675LT has the looks and the exclusivity, and frnakly pretty ridiculous performance. Although my favourite so far is the 650LM with the roof scoop and the F1 style alloys. If I had the cash I'd be in like a robber's dog.

http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/650s-le-...

Mr f - are you tempted by the 650LM over the 675LT and if not what made your decision. I think the 650LM is sublime.

The LM is just an MSO parts bin special though with a numbered edition plaque stuck on. The 675 represents a lot more engineering underlying the car.

[CK_N4S]

flemke said:

Wrt carbon wheels, I'm not sure who makes them now that the original company that made them (Dymag?) has gone out of business. The Dymags had a carbon rim and mag centre. The other day I did see what appeared to be full carbon wheels on a Koenigsegg, but I presume that they are specific to that carmaker.

Regardless, I would not use a carbon rim on a road car. Carbon fibre is a lovely material. However, when aluminium and magnesium reach their failure point they deform, whereas when carbon fibre reaches its failure point it shatters. Although that is probably acceptable on a racing car, to my mind it would not be acceptable on a road car when there may be innocent bystanders exposed to a wheel-less, out-of-control vehicle.

Hi Flemke

Just thought I would jump in with some personnel experience on the Dymag wheels.

I have had them on my Boxster for the last 7 year and they still perform brilliantly.

Mine have done more than 200 laps on the Nürburgring over that time, and other trackdays in Scandinavia.

I love the feel of the car in spring when they are returned to the car. The lower unsprung mass gives more urgency to the acceleration and better steering feel.

They have probably done about 35.000 km on my car now, so for your use and mileage on the F1 I would not worry to much about having the carbon rim.

Thank you for your time on this thread, it's very much appreciated.

CK

[flemke]

Storer said:

But it is those factors that also provide a lot of the 'theatre' and 'raw pleasure' of the car and helps to make driving it a special occasion. Life is about those 'special occasions'.

Paul

I agree - that is the point of having an Ultima or F1 or P1. However, someone raised the question of useability and, as you know, all 3 of the above are not very useable.

[flemke]

Soov535 said:

Monty Python said:

Flemke, do you intend to keep the P1 or replace it with something more "usable"?

I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?

The latter is correct, the former likely.