Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Author
Discussion

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Friday 27th November 2015
quotequote all
lauda said:
Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that I thought your F1 required any restoration. More that the format of the article (discussion with the owner on acquiring the car and what work he'd subsequently had done to it, followed by a track test) would work well in the context of your car and the modifications you've made to it.

And, no, I'm not sure the latest edition of evo is in the shops yet. My subs copy only arrived this morning. It's worth picking up a copy though as I found both the F40 article and the new NSX review interesting. Harris described the NSX as a junior 918. Are you tempted by a new one considering your views on the original?
Ah, okay. wink

I have been asked by some mags including evo about such an article.
This project has now taken more than 12 years and still is not quite finished (carbon/carbon discs). In addition to the time and effort required, the money required has not been insignificant, as you will appreciate. A lot of that time, effort and money was necessary to figure out what to do, whilst probably only a third of it was put into the actual acquisition or fabrication of parts once we knew (or believed) what we needed do. Plus there have been quite a few dead-ends, things we could know would not work only by trying them, along the way.
TBH, I am not keen to give away all that information to other F1 owners, most of whom have a lot more money than I do anyhow. If they want to sort out their own cars, let them do it themselves. There is nothing stopping them.
When I embarked on the project, I did not expect that it would be anywhere near as difficult as it has proved to be, but I have stuck with it both because of my passion for the car and because I am a stubborn cuss.

New NSX: the reviews were a bit disappointing (IIRC, in particular the steering was a let-down, whereas in the original NSX the steering is really good in all aspects), the car is quite heavy (heavier than 918 which has 60% more power), and I cannot abide the design of the front - doesn't work on a Civic, so why should it work on an NSX?
Not saying that I won't go for one although I would definitely need to drive it first and judge for myself. The beauty of the original NSX is that all its systems work in harmony and complement each other, and that is something that can only be experienced directly.
You think I could do a deal with Honda - I'll buy say 10 of the new NSXs if in return they sack that little prick Marc Marquez?



Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Friday 27th November 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
Ah, okay. wink

I have been asked by some mags including evo about such an article.
This project has now taken more than 12 years and still is not quite finished (carbon/carbon discs). In addition to the time and effort required, the money required has not been insignificant, as you will appreciate. A lot of that time, effort and money was necessary to figure out what to do, whilst probably only a third of it was put into the actual acquisition or fabrication of parts once we knew (or believed) what we needed do. Plus there have been quite a few dead-ends, things we could know would not work only by trying them, along the way.
TBH, I am not keen to give away all that information to other F1 owners, most of whom have a lot more money than I do anyhow. If they want to sort out their own cars, let them do it themselves.

You think I could do a deal with Honda - I'll buy say 10 of the new NSXs if in return they sack that little prick Marc Marquez?
That's a shame. I always hoped if I won the lottery and bought a F1 I could ask for some advice!

As for MM, it would be bloody superb if you drove into your local Honda dealer in the F1 and made that offer.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Friday 27th November 2015
quotequote all
Sway said:
flemke said:
Ah, okay. wink

I have been asked by some mags including evo about such an article.
This project has now taken more than 12 years and still is not quite finished (carbon/carbon discs). In addition to the time and effort required, the money required has not been insignificant, as you will appreciate. A lot of that time, effort and money was necessary to figure out what to do, whilst probably only a third of it was put into the actual acquisition or fabrication of parts once we knew (or believed) what we needed do. Plus there have been quite a few dead-ends, things we could know would not work only by trying them, along the way.
TBH, I am not keen to give away all that information to other F1 owners, most of whom have a lot more money than I do anyhow. If they want to sort out their own cars, let them do it themselves.

You think I could do a deal with Honda - I'll buy say 10 of the new NSXs if in return they sack that little prick Marc Marquez?
That's a shame. I always hoped if I won the lottery and bought a F1 I could ask for some advice!

As for MM, it would be bloody superb if you drove into your local Honda dealer in the F1 and made that offer.
- I would always make an exception for PH friends. smile

- You know, I might just do that next week....

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
lauda said:
Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my original post. I didn't mean to imply that I thought your F1 required any restoration. More that the format of the article (discussion with the owner on acquiring the car and what work he'd subsequently had done to it, followed by a track test) would work well in the context of your car and the modifications you've made to it.

And, no, I'm not sure the latest edition of evo is in the shops yet. My subs copy only arrived this morning. It's worth picking up a copy though as I found both the F40 article and the new NSX review interesting. Harris described the NSX as a junior 918. Are you tempted by a new one considering your views on the original?
Ah, okay. wink

I have been asked by some mags including evo about such an article.
This project has now taken more than 12 years and still is not quite finished (carbon/carbon discs). In addition to the time and effort required, the money required has not been insignificant, as you will appreciate. A lot of that time, effort and money was necessary to figure out what to do, whilst probably only a third of it was put into the actual acquisition or fabrication of parts once we knew (or believed) what we needed do. Plus there have been quite a few dead-ends, things we could know would not work only by trying them, along the way.
TBH, I am not keen to give away all that information to other F1 owners, most of whom have a lot more money than I do anyhow. If they want to sort out their own cars, let them do it themselves. There is nothing stopping them.
When I embarked on the project, I did not expect that it would be anywhere near as difficult as it has proved to be, but I have stuck with it both because of my passion for the car and because I am a stubborn cuss.

New NSX: the reviews were a bit disappointing (IIRC, in particular the steering was a let-down, whereas in the original NSX the steering is really good in all aspects), the car is quite heavy (heavier than 918 which has 60% more power), and I cannot abide the design of the front - doesn't work on a Civic, so why should it work on an NSX?
Not saying that I won't go for one although I would definitely need to drive it first and judge for myself. The beauty of the original NSX is that all its systems work in harmony and complement each other, and that is something that can only be experienced directly.
You think I could do a deal with Honda - I'll buy say 10 of the new NSXs if in return they sack that little prick Marc Marquez?
I seem to recall Flemke saying that if you wanted some details on his mods for your own F1. I substantial donation to a charity would help. Seems fair to me smile

As for Marquez. Please don't tell me you are one of those that felt he cost VR the title. And that it's some kind of great loss for the championship. I may not be a huge fan of JL. But he definitely deserved that title. More wins, more poles, more fastest laps.

chriskay

13 posts

151 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
Flemke; I wonder if you'd answer a question? I've no doubt it's been raised before but is now hidden many pages, or indeed volumes, ago. I know you've commented that you think the P1 is too wide: is the 675LT any narrower? Also, when discussing widths, is it measured including the mirrors?

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Saturday 28th November 2015
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
I seem to recall Flemke saying that if you wanted some details on his mods for your own F1. I substantial donation to a charity would help. Seems fair to me smile
I'd go for that, as long as the charitable donation was of sufficient size.

Rich_W said:
As for Marquez. Please don't tell me you are one of those that felt he cost VR the title. And that it's some kind of great loss for the championship. I may not be a huge fan of JL. But he definitely deserved that title. More wins, more poles, more fastest laps.
Well, he did cost Rossi the title. Whether Lorenzo or Rossi deserved the title more would be a different question, no?

I actually think that Lorenzo and Rossi were both deserving. Fastest laps are meaningless. Of course wins are meaningful, but so are unforced errors, and Lorenzo made a few.

Because Lorenzo was equally deserving, I would not call it a loss for the championship. It is however problematical that Marquez was allowed to get away with what he did for, at a minimum, the last two races if not the last three. That sort of behaviour has no place in sport.

If Lorenzo and Marquez had been on the same team, then one might defend Marquez on the basis that he would have been acting positively for the benefit of the team. Because they are on rival teams, however, the only explanation for his actions was that he was riding negatively in order to interfere with a competitor whose career records he hopes ultimately to eclipse. His behaviour was totally unacceptable.

As I say, I agree that Lorenzo was deserving, although his attempt to insert himself in Rossi's appeal hearing was pretty low, and was another manifestation - if we needed one - of how great athletes are sometimes also total assholes. Rather like his Spanish amigo.



flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
chriskay said:
Flemke; I wonder if you'd answer a question? I've no doubt it's been raised before but is now hidden many pages, or indeed volumes, ago. I know you've commented that you think the P1 is too wide: is the 675LT any narrower? Also, when discussing widths, is it measured including the mirrors?
This entire generation of mid-engine "supercars" (excluding Aventador, which is the stuff of comedy) has a width without mirrors of less than 2 metres and a width with mirrors of more than 2 metres. Usually when quoted the P1's width is less than 2m and the 675's is greater than 2m, but that is only because for whatever reason McLaren gave out measurements of different things.

The measurement that matters to me is without mirrors, as usually the issue is not whether a mirror is going to clash but rather whether the bodywork is going to clash.

For the driver, the P1 feels normal width or even on the narrow side, but this is an illusion caused by the fact that there is not a lot of space between driver and passenger or between each person's outer shoulder and the inside of the door. The doors, on the other hand, are exceptionally thick, in order to accommodate the complex aerodynamics that they are designed to create.

As you will imagine, this illusion can be a problem, as you are taking up more road space than you might imagine. I find that by checking the offside door mirror I can see where the car actually is in relation to the white centre line, and that is often closer than I had thought.

The 675 is also too wide (although I think it is slightly narrower than P1), but at least one is usually aware of that fact.



mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Sunday 29th November 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
For the driver, the P1 feels normal width or even on the narrow side, but this is an illusion caused by the fact that there is not a lot of space between driver and passenger or between each person's outer shoulder and the inside of the door. The doors, on the other hand, are exceptionally thick, in order to accommodate the complex aerodynamics that they are designed to create.

As you will imagine, this illusion can be a problem, as you are taking up more road space than you might imagine. I find that by checking the offside door mirror I can see where the car actually is in relation to the white centre line, and that is often closer than I had thought.

The 675 is also too wide (although I think it is slightly narrower than P1), but at least one is usually aware of that fact.

I'd not thought of that
Explains why the 650 feels small inside

ManFromDelmonte

2,742 posts

179 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
What's the latest with the new brakes for the F1? Is it lack of your time holding things up or something else?

lauda

3,445 posts

206 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
Ah, okay. wink

I have been asked by some mags including evo about such an article.
This project has now taken more than 12 years and still is not quite finished (carbon/carbon discs). In addition to the time and effort required, the money required has not been insignificant, as you will appreciate. A lot of that time, effort and money was necessary to figure out what to do, whilst probably only a third of it was put into the actual acquisition or fabrication of parts once we knew (or believed) what we needed do. Plus there have been quite a few dead-ends, things we could know would not work only by trying them, along the way.
TBH, I am not keen to give away all that information to other F1 owners, most of whom have a lot more money than I do anyhow. If they want to sort out their own cars, let them do it themselves. There is nothing stopping them.
When I embarked on the project, I did not expect that it would be anywhere near as difficult as it has proved to be, but I have stuck with it both because of my passion for the car and because I am a stubborn cuss.

New NSX: the reviews were a bit disappointing (IIRC, in particular the steering was a let-down, whereas in the original NSX the steering is really good in all aspects), the car is quite heavy (heavier than 918 which has 60% more power), and I cannot abide the design of the front - doesn't work on a Civic, so why should it work on an NSX?
Not saying that I won't go for one although I would definitely need to drive it first and judge for myself. The beauty of the original NSX is that all its systems work in harmony and complement each other, and that is something that can only be experienced directly.
You think I could do a deal with Honda - I'll buy say 10 of the new NSXs if in return they sack that little prick Marc Marquez?
That's a fair enough point with respect to the time, effort and money that you've put in to the modifications that you've made. Perhaps the article could give a flavour of the changes without giving away too much intellectual property?

It raises another question in my mind about how many owners would actually seek to 'improve' their F1s in the way that you have. I'm guessing that relatively few are used to the same extent and I wonder how many owners would place a higher premium on originality than performance? I know that you've said before that the changes you've made to your car are all reversible and that it could be returned to original spec but my hunch is that most owners would be too worried about impacting value to change too much about the car or would never use it in a manner that would enable them to appreciate the changes anyway.

Have any other owners contacted you in the past to try to piggyback off the work that you've had done? Or are you aware of any who have made similar updgrades to their cars independently?


Dr JonboyG

2,561 posts

238 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
mikey k said:

I'd not thought of that
Explains why the 650 feels small inside
The better forward visibility makes up for it IMO.

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Monday 30th November 2015
quotequote all
Dr JonboyG said:
mikey k said:

I'd not thought of that
Explains why the 650 feels small inside
The better forward visibility makes up for it IMO.
yes I love the way you can see the top of the wheel position and everything almost to your feet!

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
ManFromDelmonte said:
What's the latest with the new brakes for the F1? Is it lack of your time holding things up or something else?
Partly my time limitations and partly things not related to me.
In the meantime, we have worked on the brake balance for the car with iron rotors, including changing master cylinder sizes, and that has helped. Brake balance with the carbon/carbon rotors (which in extreme conditions would change during the braking process) was the problem with them, and the hope is that the improvements that we have made with iron will carry over to the carbon/carbon.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
lauda said:
That's a fair enough point with respect to the time, effort and money that you've put in to the modifications that you've made. Perhaps the article could give a flavour of the changes without giving away too much intellectual property?

It raises another question in my mind about how many owners would actually seek to 'improve' their F1s in the way that you have. I'm guessing that relatively few are used to the same extent and I wonder how many owners would place a higher premium on originality than performance? I know that you've said before that the changes you've made to your car are all reversible and that it could be returned to original spec but my hunch is that most owners would be too worried about impacting value to change too much about the car or would never use it in a manner that would enable them to appreciate the changes anyway.

Have any other owners contacted you in the past to try to piggyback off the work that you've had done? Or are you aware of any who have made similar updgrades to their cars independently?
There was an F1 in Japan to which specialist aftermarket dampers were fitted, IIRC. I am not aware of other cars that have been modified.

Yes, there have been a few queries from other owners. One Japanese owner asked McLaren if I would talk with him about what I had done to my car. I said that I would do so, but then I heard nothing further.
About a year ago, before they were shipped to me, my new wheels were displayed on another F1 at a US race weekend or something. I was told by the guy who made them and who was looking after them that weekend that two US owners separately asked him how they could get the same for their own cars. They were told that the wheels are proprietary, which ended those conversations.

The entries on this (multi-part) thread cover pretty much everything that I am happy to disclose about the changes that have been made to my car. The basic story has been:
- two issues: brakes and handling imbalance
- to fix handling imbalance, we needed to change tyres, which meant having new wheels made up, also new fully adjustable wishbones, custom dampers and many iterations of springs.
- As long as we were in the neighbourhood, it made sense to design new uprights, which would allow modern brakes (with greater distance between caliper fixing points than on the originals). Some modern racing calipers will accommodate both iron and carbon/carbon rotors, so I got those calipers.
The above required a lot of testing and development.

There have been several other little things that I have done to take out unwanted compliance, and many subtle cosmetic changes or additions, but the above are the essentials.



Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
If you wish to jump the waiting list you could have this

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C686830

I have no idea how the price compares but it seems a tad dear.



Paul


castex

4,935 posts

272 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
lauda said:
That's a fair enough point with respect to the time, effort and money that you've put in to the modifications that you've made. Perhaps the article could give a flavour of the changes without giving away too much intellectual property?

It raises another question in my mind about how many owners would actually seek to 'improve' their F1s in the way that you have. I'm guessing that relatively few are used to the same extent and I wonder how many owners would place a higher premium on originality than performance? I know that you've said before that the changes you've made to your car are all reversible and that it could be returned to original spec but my hunch is that most owners would be too worried about impacting value to change too much about the car or would never use it in a manner that would enable them to appreciate the changes anyway.

Have any other owners contacted you in the past to try to piggyback off the work that you've had done? Or are you aware of any who have made similar updgrades to their cars independently?
There was an F1 in Japan to which specialist aftermarket dampers were fitted, IIRC. I am not aware of other cars that have been modified.

Yes, there have been a few queries from other owners. One Japanese owner asked McLaren if I would talk with him about what I had done to my car. I said that I would do so, but then I heard nothing further.
About a year ago, before they were shipped to me, my new wheels were displayed on another F1 at a US race weekend or something. I was told by the guy who made them and who was looking after them that weekend that two US owners separately asked him how they could get the same for their own cars. They were told that the wheels are proprietary, which ended those conversations.

The entries on this (multi-part) thread cover pretty much everything that I am happy to disclose about the changes that have been made to my car. The basic story has been:
- two issues: brakes and handling imbalance
- to fix handling imbalance, we needed to change tyres, which meant having new wheels made up, also new fully adjustable wishbones, custom dampers and many iterations of springs.
- As long as we were in the neighbourhood, it made sense to design new uprights, which would allow modern brakes (with greater distance between caliper fixing points than on the originals). Some modern racing calipers will accommodate both iron and carbon/carbon rotors, so I got those calipers.
The above required a lot of testing and development.

There have been several other little things that I have done to take out unwanted compliance, and many subtle cosmetic changes or additions, but the above are the essentials.
I'd rather have an original and drive around it, but that's just me.
I totally understand why you would take this car as your basis for gunning for perfection.

But it's not a McLaren anymore is it? It's a McFlemke.

Your position on Ferrari has become comical - in particular of late certain comments about F40 build quality - but I love this thread and always look forward to your expressions from a unique perspective.

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Storer said:
If you wish to jump the waiting list you could have this

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C686830

I have no idea how the price compares but it seems a tad dear.



Paul
Sorry, Paul - what are you suggesting?

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
castex said:
I'd rather have an original and drive around it, but that's just me.
Have you driven one in order to judge? wink If not, you might be surprised. Impressive - very - but not the full deck, which is why it is so frustrating in its standard form. Actually the GTR is much more of a piece, but as a road car it has a couple of fatal flaws.

castex said:
I totally understand why you would take this car as your basis for gunning for perfection.

But it's not a McLaren anymore is it? It's a McFlemke.

Your position on Ferrari has become comical - in particular of late certain comments about F40 build quality - but I love this thread and always look forward to your expressions from a unique perspective.
Actually, the rubbish build quality of the F40 (and at least a few other of the most coveted Ferrari models) was first brought to my attention by one of the UK's most respected and experienced independent Ferrari service and restoration shops, and they would know!

michael243

4,079 posts

174 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
Have you ever had an major issues regarding your F1? Curious to see how the F1 measures up to what I've been told first hand by an P1 owner about his P1 and how bad it is for reliability scratchchin

flemke

22,863 posts

236 months

Wednesday 2nd December 2015
quotequote all
michael243 said:
Have you ever had an major issues regarding your F1? Curious to see how the F1 measures up to what I've been told first hand by an P1 owner about his P1 and how bad it is for reliability scratchchin
No real issues for me. The F1 is fairly simple and robust.

Likewise, I have had no real issues with my P1, after 13 months and 2,400 miles. Only thing that has failed was the rubber part of the windscreen wiper blade. Although I prefer the 918 to the P1, it has not escaped my attention that, although as I say I have had no problems with my P1, so far AIUI there have been three major recalls for the 918. scratchchin