Facing a Disciplinary hearing. Help please
Discussion
Good evening all,
I have posted under a different name because I know some colleagues know my main account on here, and do not know what’s going on so would like to keep it that way, hence the new login. I have run into a bit of trouble with work recently, and I am currently facing a allegation of gross misconduct at a disciplinary hearing next week.
In short, I don’t really mind because I have recently accepted a new job which my employers have found out about. This act of gross misconduct happened last year, and is purely being used against me so I am dismissed and thus can’t use my company car as this is my managers way of getting back at me (I will come onto this later).
But in detail so you can understand my problem (sorry, it is a bit long winded, war and peace stuff).
It is alleged that in October 2013, I authorised a payment through the company higher than sign off limit. For arguments sake, this is true. It was a rebate to a customer which my manager had forgotten to pay, and was on annual leave when I made this transaction. As a company, we faced a situation of either pay this rebate of £6,000, or loose an account worth over half a million pounds worth of revenue a year. Easy decision to make being a company man. Technically however, my sign off limit is only £5,000 so strictly speaking aren’t allowed to authorise. It is worth point out here that upon my manager return, he was grateful that I sorted this so we didn’t loose a big client. That was the end of that, or so I thought.
I have recently been looking for a new job as I just don’t like some parts of the company any more. I have been offered a job with a competitor which I have accepted. This was only last week. When I accepted the role, it was over dinner with my new employees. However, a colleague saw me having dinner with them and must of known what this meant.
The next day I was emailed requesting a meeting with my manager. I go into this meeting, and to keep it short, either told to stay in my current job with them, or face the consequences. At this point I have still not handed in my notice, nor told them I have accepted another offer, they have just assumed. I chose the latter after basically walking straight out of that office.
Today, I was called into our boardroom to find 2 HR reps and my line manager. “It has come to light I autorised a transaction in October 2013 above my sign off limit and I am facing an allegation of gross misconduct conduct”. I have a hearing on Tuesday. I was given a pack with a letter and lots of witness statements, evidence etc., and as previously stated, technically I can be dismissed from this as it was a breach of policy despite being congratulated for doing so, and in the companies best interest.
Now any other time of the year, I would just walk now and be done with it, however, I am going on holiday on Wednesday, and am taking my company car to Spain. If I am dismissed on Tuesday, this would wreck my holiday as I would have no car.
Under my rights, I can postpone a hearing for up to 5 working days later if I cannot find a trade rep in that time. This is what I think is the best corse of action to at least get me past Wednesday, and I will already be in Spain. Now my question is, would this work, or can I not postpone full well knowing I can’t attend the rearranged date.
In all honesty, I think in the eyes of the court at a tribunal, I am being pretty harshly done by. However I don’t want to go down that route as I just want to get gone of my old company and wipe my hands of them.
As an alternative, if I were to hand in my notice on Monday, could I still be dismissed, or just take my months notice period and keep my job perks?
And as yet another alternative, and I hate to suggest this as I’m not one to pull sickies or anything; but I played football after work today and have sprained my ankle. I’m pretty sure I could get signed off for a few days, thus missing the hearing due to illness. Would this be an option?
As I said, sorry about the war and peace; just super stress about this as I have a very busy holiday planned,
I have posted under a different name because I know some colleagues know my main account on here, and do not know what’s going on so would like to keep it that way, hence the new login. I have run into a bit of trouble with work recently, and I am currently facing a allegation of gross misconduct at a disciplinary hearing next week.
In short, I don’t really mind because I have recently accepted a new job which my employers have found out about. This act of gross misconduct happened last year, and is purely being used against me so I am dismissed and thus can’t use my company car as this is my managers way of getting back at me (I will come onto this later).
But in detail so you can understand my problem (sorry, it is a bit long winded, war and peace stuff).
It is alleged that in October 2013, I authorised a payment through the company higher than sign off limit. For arguments sake, this is true. It was a rebate to a customer which my manager had forgotten to pay, and was on annual leave when I made this transaction. As a company, we faced a situation of either pay this rebate of £6,000, or loose an account worth over half a million pounds worth of revenue a year. Easy decision to make being a company man. Technically however, my sign off limit is only £5,000 so strictly speaking aren’t allowed to authorise. It is worth point out here that upon my manager return, he was grateful that I sorted this so we didn’t loose a big client. That was the end of that, or so I thought.
I have recently been looking for a new job as I just don’t like some parts of the company any more. I have been offered a job with a competitor which I have accepted. This was only last week. When I accepted the role, it was over dinner with my new employees. However, a colleague saw me having dinner with them and must of known what this meant.
The next day I was emailed requesting a meeting with my manager. I go into this meeting, and to keep it short, either told to stay in my current job with them, or face the consequences. At this point I have still not handed in my notice, nor told them I have accepted another offer, they have just assumed. I chose the latter after basically walking straight out of that office.
Today, I was called into our boardroom to find 2 HR reps and my line manager. “It has come to light I autorised a transaction in October 2013 above my sign off limit and I am facing an allegation of gross misconduct conduct”. I have a hearing on Tuesday. I was given a pack with a letter and lots of witness statements, evidence etc., and as previously stated, technically I can be dismissed from this as it was a breach of policy despite being congratulated for doing so, and in the companies best interest.
Now any other time of the year, I would just walk now and be done with it, however, I am going on holiday on Wednesday, and am taking my company car to Spain. If I am dismissed on Tuesday, this would wreck my holiday as I would have no car.
Under my rights, I can postpone a hearing for up to 5 working days later if I cannot find a trade rep in that time. This is what I think is the best corse of action to at least get me past Wednesday, and I will already be in Spain. Now my question is, would this work, or can I not postpone full well knowing I can’t attend the rearranged date.
In all honesty, I think in the eyes of the court at a tribunal, I am being pretty harshly done by. However I don’t want to go down that route as I just want to get gone of my old company and wipe my hands of them.
As an alternative, if I were to hand in my notice on Monday, could I still be dismissed, or just take my months notice period and keep my job perks?
And as yet another alternative, and I hate to suggest this as I’m not one to pull sickies or anything; but I played football after work today and have sprained my ankle. I’m pretty sure I could get signed off for a few days, thus missing the hearing due to illness. Would this be an option?
As I said, sorry about the war and peace; just super stress about this as I have a very busy holiday planned,
Edited by StrippyShirts on Friday 8th August 22:07
Mojooo said:
Go sick or as you say use the TU route.
Just hope they dont report the car as stolen while you are gone - which they wont if they are a big car.
This has crossed my mind, but again, in a court of law they will struggle for to hold up.Just hope they dont report the car as stolen while you are gone - which they wont if they are a big car.
The verb steal is defined at "to take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it."
I have a signed letter from two company directors stating that I can take the vehicle abroad and said dates so have the permission. In terms of not intending to return, at time of departing for holiday, I just thought it was still my company car and thought nothing else of it.
I would be inclined to look for any emails in your sent items or inbox confirming that the rebate was a good move, and would want to print those off and present them to the disciplinary hearing. Is it impossible to hire a car for the trip? Some google results suggest uk firms exist that allow it.
Essentially you have nothing to lose....so go for it.
1. Go on the sick first thing Monday am. Remain uncontactable (this is important so that they cannot tell you, you can't have the car for your holiday). Say you won't be around to respond to any emails/phonecalls as you are having treatment on your ankle.
2. Late on Monday email them and tell them you acknowledge the meeting but that you will not be able to attend at this time for 2 reasons - a) you are having treatment on the ankle so you will be at hospital or clinic and b) getting a (union) representative to accompany you which you are entitled to (do they even know whether you are in a union or not??) at such short notice is impossible. Also resign in the same email.
3. I'd be tempted to add that they know full well the circumstances of you exceeding your authority, that it was praised at the time and saved a £1/2M account and that coming back to it 10 months after the event proves their actions are clearly vindictive. If they wish to proceed and commit slander in front of your union representative they'd better be ready to lie in front of a judge in court as you have (even if you haven't) Legal Expenses cover on your household policy and will be happy to utilise it.
4. I reckon a very quick compromise may be reached - don't be bullied by them. Oh and make sure your new employers know what they are up to before they try to sour things for you.
1. Go on the sick first thing Monday am. Remain uncontactable (this is important so that they cannot tell you, you can't have the car for your holiday). Say you won't be around to respond to any emails/phonecalls as you are having treatment on your ankle.
2. Late on Monday email them and tell them you acknowledge the meeting but that you will not be able to attend at this time for 2 reasons - a) you are having treatment on the ankle so you will be at hospital or clinic and b) getting a (union) representative to accompany you which you are entitled to (do they even know whether you are in a union or not??) at such short notice is impossible. Also resign in the same email.
3. I'd be tempted to add that they know full well the circumstances of you exceeding your authority, that it was praised at the time and saved a £1/2M account and that coming back to it 10 months after the event proves their actions are clearly vindictive. If they wish to proceed and commit slander in front of your union representative they'd better be ready to lie in front of a judge in court as you have (even if you haven't) Legal Expenses cover on your household policy and will be happy to utilise it.
4. I reckon a very quick compromise may be reached - don't be bullied by them. Oh and make sure your new employers know what they are up to before they try to sour things for you.
Edited by elanfan on Saturday 9th August 21:06
Whose job is it to enforce sign off limits in your firm ? Do you sign the actually cheque or apply the discount ?
In theory I can sign off ANYTHING I want but when it gets to the team that make the payment it is their job, or the system's, to ensure the relevant sign off criteria are met.
Alternatively just claim it was an error ?
In theory I can sign off ANYTHING I want but when it gets to the team that make the payment it is their job, or the system's, to ensure the relevant sign off criteria are met.
Alternatively just claim it was an error ?
I wonder if the customer who received the £6k rebate knows you are being threatened with disciplinary action for authorising it?
It's clearly a trumped up charge and anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that you were acting in the best interests of the company.
I assume your offer from the new company is in writing and doesn't depend on a reference from the current firm?
It's clearly a trumped up charge and anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that you were acting in the best interests of the company.
I assume your offer from the new company is in writing and doesn't depend on a reference from the current firm?
If you're leaving the company then I would consider going off sick with work related stress saying the possibility of losing your job has got too much for you. When they ask you to attend a hearing I would say that you do not feel able to come into work at this time. Depending on the size of the company you work for they will probably refer you to their occupational health who will assess you to see if you can come into work for the interview. As long as you tell the company you're going on holiday and what dates there will be nothing they can do.
The fact they are hitting you with a folder full of case paperwork suggests that your manager has been plotting this for some time. He hasn't even sat you down or spoken to you before taking the case to the formal stage. Sacking you is a done deal so just stall it all until you're in a position to resign. You will also be able to claim back your leave for the holiday as you will be on sick leave.
Good luck and just be mindful that doing this doesn't affect your next role.
The fact they are hitting you with a folder full of case paperwork suggests that your manager has been plotting this for some time. He hasn't even sat you down or spoken to you before taking the case to the formal stage. Sacking you is a done deal so just stall it all until you're in a position to resign. You will also be able to claim back your leave for the holiday as you will be on sick leave.
Good luck and just be mindful that doing this doesn't affect your next role.
parabolica said:
How long have you been employed by your current company OP?
I've been there 5 years. It's a proper kick in the teeth. I've played Golf with the bloke numerous times; who takes something this personal?I plan to be straight on the phone on Monday morning to my new manager and let him know what's going on. Ideally they might say I can start straight away and have a spare car on fleet.
If one were to take sick leave, what the usual process, can't remember the last time I was off ill! Do you need a doctors note if you're off more than a day or something.
HenryJM said:
My advice is to get some real advice. First thing on Monday you need to be consulting a solicitor.
The issue isn't just the car, if you are sacked for gross misconduct that is what your new employer would hear and there is a good chance that any job offer will be withdrawn.
This. Your new manager may be happy to employ you with a Gross Misconduct charge over your head - his boss/HR department may not be so accommodating.The issue isn't just the car, if you are sacked for gross misconduct that is what your new employer would hear and there is a good chance that any job offer will be withdrawn.
This should really be in the Pistonheaders and their First World Problems
thread. The OP is worried that he will be deprived of the use of his company car for his foreign holiday when the reality is that he'll most likely have no job to come back to and a very black mark on his record.
The gaff of having dinner with his "new employer" and being caught out will be one he remembers for a long time. I'm surprised he hasn't been seen off the premises of his current job already.
thread. The OP is worried that he will be deprived of the use of his company car for his foreign holiday when the reality is that he'll most likely have no job to come back to and a very black mark on his record.
The gaff of having dinner with his "new employer" and being caught out will be one he remembers for a long time. I'm surprised he hasn't been seen off the premises of his current job already.
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