Why such tall first gears?

[HertsBiker]

Some cars like my wife's MG3 (drives well and very comfy, good handling) have what feel like a really tall first gear. If you red line it, it's 35mph. Trouble is it feels like you need to do this as the initial bite of the clutch means you have to rev to get it moving. Same goes for the BINI. Both need many revs to launch, when a lower ratio would work a lot better. What's wrong with a 30mph top speed in 1st? Would give a lot more urgency to things. Then again I don't like diesel 1st gears either!! Hateful short rev range with stupid change up change up change up. Urgh. Maybe my auto is better after all...

[DonkeyApple]

I was going to say that if it was autos then part of it is the compromise to have a deep first gear for SUVs which make up a large number of sales for most of the common auto units. So you see the new ZF8 with a really deep 4:1 1st. In normal cars this obviously benefits marketing top trumps 0-60 but the car will only ever really use 2-8 gears.

In a manual there is still a bit of the same going on as manufacturers try to remove the expense of changing ratios for different products but I wonder if the shorter firsts in manuals are either driven by it helping emissions in some way or that manufacturers are bringing them in line with autos so that they can use the same engines without modding cams or phasing etc between the two types of box?

Whatever the reason it almost certainly going to be down to money. Whether to avoid emissions taxes or in build changes between manual or auto etc but it won't have been done for the altruism of driving pleasure I'm sure.

[BritishRacinGrin]

The ratios are probably fine-tuned to maximise fuel economy on the prescribed EU efficiency cycle test thing.

[kambites]

BritishRacinGrin said:

The ratios are probably fine-tuned to maximise fuel economy on the prescribed EU efficiency cycle test thing.

That and often to make sure the car can hit 60 (or maybe 62) in second to avoid the need for a second gear change.

[psymonr]

I always found this weird in the Ford Focus ST170, it could break 70mph actual in 2nd gear, I always felt that really blunted the car as I'm sure with a closer ratio box it would have felt much better.

[Dog Star]

My old R1 would do something mental like 108mph in first.

[dazwalsh]

Its not so bad in my focus but my Kuga has the shortest 1st gear I've ever known, 2nd isn't much better but 3/4/5/6 are nice and long. It makes stop start driving very annoying.

[IanCress]

psymonr said:

I always found this weird in the Ford Focus ST170, it could break 70mph actual in 2nd gear, I always felt that really blunted the car as I'm sure with a closer ratio box it would have felt much better.

Same here. 45mph in first! It's actually the same box as used in the R53 MINI Cooper S, the ratios only feel long in the ST170 as it doesn't really come alive until 5000rpm and revs all the way to 7400rpm.

[BritishRacinGrin]

Kuga- maybe more likely to be heavily loaded or used for towing, ergo short 1st?

[ZesPak]

BritishRacinGrin said:

Kuga- maybe more likely to be heavily loaded or used for towing, ergo short 1st?

My Patrol had a very short first and second, to get it rolling easily with big loads. Same goes for most vans.

As mentioned above, for some cars it's just enough, some will do it for fuel economy and others will avoid having to go to third for the magic 0-100km/h number.
Big bikes have all the power to do a backflip until 100mph, so they don't need to go to 2nd earlier. Does wonders for the 0-100km/h and 0-100mph times.

[Slidingpillar]

Tall first gears are nothing new, my 1930 Morgan does 45 if redlined in first.

[chris watton]

You can do 60 in first and 90 in second with a TVR CR box!

[Ozzie Osmond]

In my opinion anyone who's red-lining their car in first gear doesn't know how to drive.

At the other end of the spectrum are those who complain "6th gear is too high", which just leaves you wondering what it was about 5th gear which they didn't like!

[kambites]

I almost always find that sixth gear is too low. I'm absolutely sure our Octavia would be more economical on the motorway if sixth was 20% higher.

[chris watton]

Ozzie Osmond said:

In my opinion anyone who's red-lining their car in first gear doesn't know how to drive.

At the other end of the spectrum are those who complain "6th gear is too high", which just leaves you wondering what it was about 5th gear which they didn't like!

Surely that depends on type of car and engine, doesn't it?

Silly blanket statement.

[Ozzie Osmond]

So let's hear who, in what car, and where, is taking their car to the red-line in first gear...

[chris watton]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So let's hear who, in what car, and where, is taking their car to the red-line in first gear...

Me - MGF Trophy 160, redlining to 7200 rpm in 1st, 2nd and 3rd (often) and TVR Tamora, redlining to over 7k rpm in first and occasionally second.

Cars are very well maintained to allow this without incident, and, as far as I know, it's what they're designed to do.

[TheLordJohn]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So let's hear who, in what car, and where, is taking their car to the red-line in first gear...

I bought a Clio 200 and that regularly saw redline in the first 4 gears.

[Dracoro]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So let's hear who, in what car, and where, is taking their car to the red-line in first gear...

When I had my S2000s, all the time

[Mr2Mike]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So let's hear who, in what car, and where, is taking their car to the red-line in first gear...

Me, in my car and on my bike. What possible reason do you have to think that red lining something in first is any different to red lining it in any other gear?