Why are folk so snobby about "kit cars"?
Discussion
Abit off topic slightly here, but I came across a few old copies of Total Kitcar mag (from say between 2004-2007), and I was amazed at how chock full the available kits there were for classics. In the classifieds section it was teeming with replicas of Austin Healey 100 and 3000s (Sebring, Haldane and HMC models), Aristocat X120 and a few Nostalgia replicas, lots and lots of Cobra kits for sale, Caterham's, Westfields, Tiger Cats and so on. You look through the magazine now, and there's practically nothing in it, except for the mostly track day/racing boring stuff and Cobra's and Lotus 7 wannabe owners we've heard of before. Why so much of a decline? I doubt the reason is solely to do with the internet sales. Probably shows there's no demand or interest for the likes of classic replicas like Austin Healey's.
Jukebag said:
Abit off topic slightly here, but I came across a few old copies of Total Kitcar mag (from say between 2004-2007), and I was amazed at how chock full the available kits there were for classics. In the classifieds section it was teeming with replicas of Austin Healey 100 and 3000s (Sebring, Haldane and HMC models), Aristocat X120 and a few Nostalgia replicas, lots and lots of Cobra kits for sale, Caterham's, Westfields, Tiger Cats and so on. You look through the magazine now, and there's practically nothing in it, except for the mostly track day/racing boring stuff and Cobra's and Lotus 7 wannabe owners we've heard of before. Why so much of a decline? I doubt the reason is solely to do with the internet sales. Probably shows there's no demand or interest for the likes of classic replicas like Austin Healey's.
Could it be that it's much more difficult to get through the red tape and also it's very difficult to export cars or kits to the EU ?mph said:
Could it be that it's much more difficult to get through the red tape and also it's very difficult to export cars or kits to the EU ?
I don't know, possibly, and possibly due to the stringent SVA tests kit cars need to go through, which no doubt will put people off the idea of building/selling a kit car. But most of the cars mentioned would've already been through the test. 
When kit cars were legion the IVA rules didn't exist, seat belts were optional, and so on. 299 pages of minutiae which confound any person who is trying to build anything motorised that isn't a eurobox. The new Proteus C-type has fuel injection for emission controls, modified dashboard to avoid injury, and a catalyst just to give an example. It also has RX8 rear suspension too. The days of the true replica or kit car are gone.
Jukebag said:
mph said:
Could it be that it's much more difficult to get through the red tape and also it's very difficult to export cars or kits to the EU ?
I don't know, possibly, and possibly due to the stringent SVA tests kit cars need to go through, which no doubt will put people off the idea of building/selling a kit car. But most of the cars mentioned would've already been through the test. lowdrag said:
The new Proteus C-type ... has RX8 rear suspension too.
Not true. The updated front AND rear suspension is to Proteus' own design. It is only the diff which is RX-8.The Crack Fox said:
Every time I think I ought to give kit cars another look I find so many are shonkily build deathtraps lashed together on a shoe-string by under skilled and over enthusiastic blokes in their garage. Some of the factory built kits aren't much better. I'm quite sure there are some lovely replicas and well-engineered kit cars out there but they (and the kit car image as a whole) are overshadowed by the very many bodge-jobs. Just my 2p.
I think this is probably what you meant, OP?I'm what you'd call a 'car enthusiast', so I differentiate myself from those who use their car as some sort of status symbol and tool of one-upmanship.
I've owned classics (1275GT mini, Triumph Stag) and I've owned a kit car (Dax Rush).
I currently run a TVR Chimaera, which some would say has a foot in either camp.
I'll say a few things:
1) Snobbery around 'kit cars' is ridiculous - it's very rare to see shonky old wrecks of kit cars these days - and I mean Kit Cars as defined as not particularly trying to replicate anything. As has been said before, SVA and IVA has mostly snuffed that out. It's also snuffed out some of the whole industry too, both good and bad.
2) Kit cars in themselves have a kind of tiering, from things like MK Indy to Ultima and the GD offerings [http://www.gdcars.com/]. Are people snobby about Ultimas? Sure they are, but i don't know why. I guess in the case of the latter, it's maybe a way of getting back at the fact that an Ultima, in most cases, will out-perform the car of the person levelling the snobbery?
3) Replicas (or as some dealers would have it 'Recreations' or 'Evocations') do come in many flavours (BTW, I've never seen a cortina based D type replica). Sure a Pilgrim Sumo with a 2 litre Pinto in it is grim, but these will also be the recipient of the 'nice kit-car' jibe : http://www.twrreplicas.com/ and http://crendonreplicas.com/index.html. I don't get it at all. These things are for the most part, essentially hand built cars, I suppose a bit like a Morgan, but most classic car buffs get wood over those (pun intended).
4) Sure, I don't get MR2's dressed up in drag, but that's not a reason to be snobby about kit cars as a whole
5) "It's built by a bloke in a shed" - so what? That's how lots of people started (lots of very fast people in British Hillclimbs especially), and it doesn't mean a damn thing as to the quality that can be achieved.
Yep, you pretty much got it in one... twas only a casual observation whilst killing time so I don't take opinions like those of the Crack Fox at all seriously.
I've owned bikes, trucks, hot rods, classics and old bangers and rate them all on the fun I have owning them, not on the badge, whether it be Bristol, Porsche, Panther, Cortina V6, Herald pick up truck, Vincent Hurricane, 2CV... and I very nearly bought an N.G. this week...
I've owned bikes, trucks, hot rods, classics and old bangers and rate them all on the fun I have owning them, not on the badge, whether it be Bristol, Porsche, Panther, Cortina V6, Herald pick up truck, Vincent Hurricane, 2CV... and I very nearly bought an N.G. this week...
Heightswitch hit the nail on the head - all the the practical engineering types have mostly retired. nobody trains these 'hands on' types anymore. Todays kids are from the playstation generation, where fantasy rather than reality lives in their diminutive brains.
I feel there will always be room for the 'one offs' well built by a 'man in a shed'. but sadly manufacturing KC's as we knew it died as a business several years ago, there's no manufacturer of 'Dutton' or heaven forbid 'Tricky dickys' Robin hood scale at the Mo.
The downward spiral of the KC shows reflect this
The folks who are snobby towards KC's are the penpushers whoove never got their hands dirty working on a car of any type - in someways I'm surprised they bother surfing this and similar forums, and commenting therein. but then I suppose Tin Top forums are boring places to surf
I feel there will always be room for the 'one offs' well built by a 'man in a shed'. but sadly manufacturing KC's as we knew it died as a business several years ago, there's no manufacturer of 'Dutton' or heaven forbid 'Tricky dickys' Robin hood scale at the Mo.
The downward spiral of the KC shows reflect this
The folks who are snobby towards KC's are the penpushers whoove never got their hands dirty working on a car of any type - in someways I'm surprised they bother surfing this and similar forums, and commenting therein. but then I suppose Tin Top forums are boring places to surf
S47 said:
Heightswitch hit the nail on the head - all the the practical engineering types have mostly retired. nobody trains these 'hands on' types anymore. Todays kids are from the playstation generation, where fantasy rather than reality lives in their diminutive brains.
I feel there will always be room for the 'one offs' well built by a 'man in a shed'. but sadly manufacturing KC's as we knew it died as a business several years ago, there's no manufacturer of 'Dutton' or heaven forbid 'Tricky dickys' Robin hood scale at the Mo.
The downward spiral of the KC shows reflect this
The folks who are snobby towards KC's are the penpushers whoove never got their hands dirty working on a car of any type - in someways I'm surprised they bother surfing this and similar forums, and commenting therein. but then I suppose Tin Top forums are boring places to surf
I've just sold my Caterham to buy a Sunbeam Lotus a more than adequate "Tin Top"I feel there will always be room for the 'one offs' well built by a 'man in a shed'. but sadly manufacturing KC's as we knew it died as a business several years ago, there's no manufacturer of 'Dutton' or heaven forbid 'Tricky dickys' Robin hood scale at the Mo.
The downward spiral of the KC shows reflect this
The folks who are snobby towards KC's are the penpushers whoove never got their hands dirty working on a car of any type - in someways I'm surprised they bother surfing this and similar forums, and commenting therein. but then I suppose Tin Top forums are boring places to surf
[quote=spoodlerand I very nearly bought an N.G. this week...
[/quote]
TA I hope? I'd have one of them they look fun. Having driven a TF a few times I know what it needs is a LOT more power to be properly silly & entertaining. Having said that, even with a 1.8 B series they'll drift well on those narrow tyres.
[/quote]
TA I hope? I'd have one of them they look fun. Having driven a TF a few times I know what it needs is a LOT more power to be properly silly & entertaining. Having said that, even with a 1.8 B series they'll drift well on those narrow tyres.
Snobs are just sad people, it matters not what they think. Kit cars are now so far removed from what they were in the early days they cannot be compared.
My friend had a really nice Dutton, it had a 1600cc engine I built and it went like the wind. At the time it was built there was no IVA but it was well engineered and was able to embarrass expensive machines.
Now some 7 owners look down on Duttons and Robin Hoods, it is just the same reasons , the British like to have a system of hieracrchy it makes the insecure feel good if they have spent more.
I was reading a classic magazine and they were saying the same thing, people start with a cheap classic but must get to a E type or such otherwise they feel a failure. The magazine was saying it doesn't matter what others say or think if you are happy then that is all that counts.
Some can create their own brand of snobbery, so they will say a replica Jag, Healy, Cobra is fine but a fake Ferrari not. To me we need variety if the snobs dislike it is their loss.
My friend had a really nice Dutton, it had a 1600cc engine I built and it went like the wind. At the time it was built there was no IVA but it was well engineered and was able to embarrass expensive machines.
Now some 7 owners look down on Duttons and Robin Hoods, it is just the same reasons , the British like to have a system of hieracrchy it makes the insecure feel good if they have spent more.
I was reading a classic magazine and they were saying the same thing, people start with a cheap classic but must get to a E type or such otherwise they feel a failure. The magazine was saying it doesn't matter what others say or think if you are happy then that is all that counts.
Some can create their own brand of snobbery, so they will say a replica Jag, Healy, Cobra is fine but a fake Ferrari not. To me we need variety if the snobs dislike it is their loss.
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