Why are folk so snobby about "kit cars"?
Discussion
Okay, forgetting for a moment the badly built Duttons and the like, why do so many on here insult even beautifully built and finely engineered kits?
Post a pic' of a shoddily built standard car (like so many post-war classics) and despite it having never been much cop it will often escape any real criticism, but a kit car generally draws casual insult despite its high quality build, excellent finish etc. and the justification would appear to be because it's a kit. So what? Is that a bad thing in itself?
Post a pic' of a shoddily built standard car (like so many post-war classics) and despite it having never been much cop it will often escape any real criticism, but a kit car generally draws casual insult despite its high quality build, excellent finish etc. and the justification would appear to be because it's a kit. So what? Is that a bad thing in itself?
Well this is PH's Classic Car sub-forum, so I can't imagine much love being shown to kit cars on here.
If PH has a Kit Car sub-forum, then I guess there will be fans on there to share their thoughts and opinions. Each to their own, but I'm not one of them.
Personally I much rather appreciate seeing time and resources being spent on keeping an old car on the road, than the creation of another new kit-car.
If PH has a Kit Car sub-forum, then I guess there will be fans on there to share their thoughts and opinions. Each to their own, but I'm not one of them.
Personally I much rather appreciate seeing time and resources being spent on keeping an old car on the road, than the creation of another new kit-car.
LotusOmega375D said:
Well this is PH's Classic Car sub-forum, so I can't imagine much love being shown to kit cars on here.
Presumably then, no love would be shown by "Classic" types toward buses, tractors or boats for example. I would have thought that a well built kit in a classic style would be appreciated on here rather than derided. As for "classic kit cars", I note the sub forum for these is rarely visited so they would appear to be an even more obscure taste... you'd think that would keep the cost of Rochdales and Unipowers down but such is not the case...
I'm in a local multi-marque car club as well as my one-make one, mainly for local events and the social side that a national club has more difficulty with. Over the last 4-5 years we've seen quite an increase in the numbers of new members with kits - mainly the Spartan but we've got another recent one with a Marlin. They're not really my kind of thing at all - I'd also rather see the work go into restoring a production vehicle - but the people who have them generally view them for what they are, and they do bring a lot of enthusiasm in, and generate interest from the general public.
I guess with some of the earlier kit cars, you have to start looking on them as classic kits - if you take a car that was originally built in the late seventies or early eighties, can we say that differs all that much from a production car from that era, in terms of whether it's classic or not?
But they all vary, as do their owners - we've got a local Italian replica club, some of the cars are quite convincing (to me as a general car enthusiast who isn't particularly knowledgeable about Ferraris) and some look terrible. I'm sure some of the owners might actually think it's worth trying to crack on that it's an actual Ferrari, probably most of them wouldn't think of doing.
And I don't think you can lump all classic owners into the same boat either - I've got quite a wide range of interests, went to a local traction engine rally the other day with only a small number of classic cars there, and it was pretty good. Some of our club members wouldn't go near it.
I guess with some of the earlier kit cars, you have to start looking on them as classic kits - if you take a car that was originally built in the late seventies or early eighties, can we say that differs all that much from a production car from that era, in terms of whether it's classic or not?
But they all vary, as do their owners - we've got a local Italian replica club, some of the cars are quite convincing (to me as a general car enthusiast who isn't particularly knowledgeable about Ferraris) and some look terrible. I'm sure some of the owners might actually think it's worth trying to crack on that it's an actual Ferrari, probably most of them wouldn't think of doing.
And I don't think you can lump all classic owners into the same boat either - I've got quite a wide range of interests, went to a local traction engine rally the other day with only a small number of classic cars there, and it was pretty good. Some of our club members wouldn't go near it.
sheer snobbery, it's as simple as that
yet drool bowls have to be put out for Cobra kits and the like such as something with a JAAAAAG badge on it - of course these kit cars are often called replicas
personally I don't mind kit cars at all but some are actually more badly built than the average British built classic so are pretty bad
yet drool bowls have to be put out for Cobra kits and the like such as something with a JAAAAAG badge on it - of course these kit cars are often called replicas
personally I don't mind kit cars at all but some are actually more badly built than the average British built classic so are pretty bad
Personally, I don't have an issue with kit cars as they're often beautifully built and presented. My beef comes when somebody takes a nicely presented DAX Cobra and sticks 'AC' badges on in, or Lancia badges on a Hawk Stratos. Trying to pass them of as being 'original'.
I've the same issue with people recovering a bent chassis plate off a wrecked rare race-car, building a tool-room replica and then trying to pass it off as being the real-deal.
Oh and OP, if you think people are being snobby on here about kit-cars, don't whatever you do, go on the watch forum and ask what's wrong with fake Rolex
Paul
I've the same issue with people recovering a bent chassis plate off a wrecked rare race-car, building a tool-room replica and then trying to pass it off as being the real-deal.
Oh and OP, if you think people are being snobby on here about kit-cars, don't whatever you do, go on the watch forum and ask what's wrong with fake Rolex
Paul
Kit cars have a long history in the UK. As a result of post-war shortages, many vehicles were rebuilt into homemade specials (Fords, Austin 7s, etc). The resulting kit car industry spawned quite a few car manufacturers: Lotus, Ginetta, TVR, Marcos, Gilbern. The interest in replica cars is relatively recent and there are some really well-engineered examples, but also some quite ugly pastiches. Some of the better C & D-Type replicas now change hands for serious money.
IMHO we're quite lucky to have all this variety, rather than just the dull Euroboxes or ridiculously expensive tasteless bling on the roads of most other countries.
IMHO we're quite lucky to have all this variety, rather than just the dull Euroboxes or ridiculously expensive tasteless bling on the roads of most other countries.
This is not a subject I want to get embroiled in, but can those who are passionate about it just remember that Lotus Elans and Lotus Sevens were often built as kits? So is a factory-built Elan a classic, but a kit-car Elan not? There are a few others too, I'm sure. And I see the thread is veering off into the domain of replicas etc. Good luck to those arguing for and against. I hope you come to some friendly agreement.
I've just double checked the name of this site . . it is 'PISTONHEADS' which I've always taken as a variation of 'PETROLHEADS'. If you are a true Petrolhead / Pistonhead you will enjoy and have an interest in anything with wheels and an engine. That doesn't mean you actually have to 'like' it . . . BUT a TRUE Petrolhead / Pistonhead will always have respect for the tastes of others.
Yes snobbery it is indeed to an extent. So many look down at people with kit cars/replica or even lookalikes for that matter as being owned by people who simply are too poor to afford a real one - which is true for the majority of people. However, I think most of it boils down to sheer enjoyment of building your own kit, spending many hours in a cold garage in the middle of winter grafting on a car which one day you want to see the end result of; simple fact that people don't want to get their hands dirty building one from scratch, they want the easy life and one ready made.
What about the Cobra, aren't they kits too? because how many can afford a real one?. Yes, I agree there are some poorly made examples out there that claim to resemble the original in every respect, but, like people say, they're usually built by amateurs who don't know what they're doing. There are replicas of classics built by reputable companies that should never have been made that way, one example are the Sebring and HMC Austin Healey replicas with those ridiculous flared wheel arches and the sporty side vents and unnecessary V8 engines in them and roll bars. Why do people insist on putting a high powered engine in something like a classic Healey?, they were made for the quiet country roads not for racing round a mountain side at 140mph. Since when did the Healey 100/3000 have flared wheel arches?:
And what about that Eagle Speedster with its 500k price tag?, how's that an original E-Type with the low screen and wider back? it is essentially a kit car as well.
What about the Cobra, aren't they kits too? because how many can afford a real one?. Yes, I agree there are some poorly made examples out there that claim to resemble the original in every respect, but, like people say, they're usually built by amateurs who don't know what they're doing. There are replicas of classics built by reputable companies that should never have been made that way, one example are the Sebring and HMC Austin Healey replicas with those ridiculous flared wheel arches and the sporty side vents and unnecessary V8 engines in them and roll bars. Why do people insist on putting a high powered engine in something like a classic Healey?, they were made for the quiet country roads not for racing round a mountain side at 140mph. Since when did the Healey 100/3000 have flared wheel arches?:
And what about that Eagle Speedster with its 500k price tag?, how's that an original E-Type with the low screen and wider back? it is essentially a kit car as well.
Edited by Jukebag on Monday 11th August 19:32
One of my cars is a Dutton Phaeton. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it, as every time I drive it , it puts a huge grin on my face. Drives like a go-kart. Massive fun for pocket money costs. What's not to like about that? I even like it's "Q" plate. It gives no clue about the cars age. It spent 10 years off the road, and I have spent the last 12 months totally rebuilding it and putting it back on the road, so have had the "build" experience and now have the driving fun. Cost of the rebuild was very little - only needing suspension bushes, brakes, fuel pump ( electric ) some wiring and a repaint and re-trim- all done by myself for a few hundred pounds.
I don't have a problem with them.
I think the problem is that for every good one there are legions of horrible ones.
I also have a big problem with kit car fakes. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 is just wrong. It does not matter how much effort went into the car - the owner should have the dignity to call it what it is. Or name it after his dog or something. Just don't pretend it's a Ferrari.
I think the problem is that for every good one there are legions of horrible ones.
I also have a big problem with kit car fakes. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 is just wrong. It does not matter how much effort went into the car - the owner should have the dignity to call it what it is. Or name it after his dog or something. Just don't pretend it's a Ferrari.
toppstuff said:
I don't have a problem with them.
I think the problem is that for every good one there are legions of horrible ones.
I also have a big problem with kit car fakes. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 is just wrong. It does not matter how much effort went into the car - the owner should have the dignity to call it what it is. Or name it after his dog or something. Just don't pretend it's a Ferrari.
Couldn't agree more. Build it and run it for what is is, not pretend it is something else. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 ( or Cobra badges on a Sumo!) is just a sad admission that you really want the real thing but have not been successful enough to afford one.I think the problem is that for every good one there are legions of horrible ones.
I also have a big problem with kit car fakes. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 is just wrong. It does not matter how much effort went into the car - the owner should have the dignity to call it what it is. Or name it after his dog or something. Just don't pretend it's a Ferrari.
toppstuff said:
I also have a big problem with kit car fakes. Sticking Ferrari badges on an MR2 is just wrong. It does not matter how much effort went into the car - the owner should have the dignity to call it what it is. Or name it after his dog or something. Just don't pretend it's a Ferrari.
I don't really understand that. Surely if you want a car that looks like Ferrari you'll want it to be as authentic as possible? We've got a friend with a fake Ferrari and it has Ferrari badges, but if anybody asks him about it he says it's based on a Lexus, so it's not like he's trying to pass it off as something it isn't.I think the attitude that people who drive replicas are trying to impress other people is a sad one, obviously in most cases it's just a case of the owner not being able to afford their dream car so they get the next best thing.
In cases where the car isn't a replica but just tries to emulate a particular design (e.g. Marlins and Spartans bearing faint resemblances to pre-war) the snobbery is just a result of people thinking that because their not genuine, they're just pathetic attempts to copy the genuine article. Nonsense. They're just fun cars that are designed to look (to the untrained eye) like they came from a great era for car design.
ClassicMotorNut said:
We've got a friend with a fake Ferrari and it has Ferrari badges, but if anybody asks him about it he says it's based on a Lexus, so it's not like he's trying to pass it off as something it isn't.
What?????If he's put Ferrari badges on it then he's trying to pass it off as Ferrari!!!
If he wasn't then he'd put Lexus badges on it and be up front with everyone (not just those who ask).
Just as bad as a Sumo with AC Cobra badges on it IMHO.
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