RAF Private Jets??
Discussion
Whilst on holiday in Dorset i saw on several occasions what looked like RAF Learjets.
They were very dark in colour (possibly black) & looked like Learjet type private jets with 2 engines either side of the rear tailplane. They also looked as though they were carrying armament under both wings. Saw 3 flying in a loose formation a couple of times & then individual planes several times.
These were flying at fairly low levels across Poole/Swanage/Studland. Any idea what they could be?
They were very dark in colour (possibly black) & looked like Learjet type private jets with 2 engines either side of the rear tailplane. They also looked as though they were carrying armament under both wings. Saw 3 flying in a loose formation a couple of times & then individual planes several times.
These were flying at fairly low levels across Poole/Swanage/Studland. Any idea what they could be?
A bit like this?
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/bae125.cfm
Im sure there is a version painted black & used for intel or something but cant find it on the RAF site(probably top secret!)
ETA:Dominies,based on the 125, seem to have been painted black but they are retired,so more likely the Falcons mentioned below
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/bae125.cfm
Im sure there is a version painted black & used for intel or something but cant find it on the RAF site(probably top secret!)
ETA:Dominies,based on the 125, seem to have been painted black but they are retired,so more likely the Falcons mentioned below
Edited by kowalski655 on Tuesday 12th August 14:50
There are 2 sets of Falcons operated by Cobham (ex FRA)
Those at Bournmouth act as target facilities aircraft for the Navy. That is to say they will run in at low level simulating a sea skimming missile (what used to be done by the FRADU Hunters and Canberras) during what is colloquially known as the 'Thursday War' which is a series of excercises held in the Danger Areas in the Channel. Additionally the Falcons have an ECM capability (Electronic Counter Measures - hence the 'pod' under the wing) where they can simulate enemy radar jamming.
The other group of Falcons is based at Teesside airport and generally operate against the RAF in the ECM training role (what used to be done by the 360 Sqn Canberra T17s).
No they don't get shot at for real!
(Having said that, 100 Sqn Hawks based at Leeming have the capability for target towing for air to air gunnery training).
Those at Bournmouth act as target facilities aircraft for the Navy. That is to say they will run in at low level simulating a sea skimming missile (what used to be done by the FRADU Hunters and Canberras) during what is colloquially known as the 'Thursday War' which is a series of excercises held in the Danger Areas in the Channel. Additionally the Falcons have an ECM capability (Electronic Counter Measures - hence the 'pod' under the wing) where they can simulate enemy radar jamming.
The other group of Falcons is based at Teesside airport and generally operate against the RAF in the ECM training role (what used to be done by the 360 Sqn Canberra T17s).
No they don't get shot at for real!
(Having said that, 100 Sqn Hawks based at Leeming have the capability for target towing for air to air gunnery training).
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
There are 2 sets of Falcons operated by Cobham (ex FRA)
Those at Bournmouth act as target facilities aircraft for the Navy. That is to say they will run in at low level simulating a sea skimming missile (what used to be done by the FRADU Hunters and Canberras) during what is colloquially known as the 'Thursday War' which is a series of excercises held in the Danger Areas in the Channel. Additionally the Falcons have an ECM capability (Electronic Counter Measures - hence the 'pod' under the wing) where they can simulate enemy radar jamming.
The other group of Falcons is based at Teesside airport and generally operate against the RAF in the ECM training role (what used to be done by the 360 Sqn Canberra T17s).
No they don't get shot at for real!
(Having said that, 100 Sqn Hawks based at Leeming have the capability for target towing for air to air gunnery training).
I was under the impression that the Cobham/FRA Falcons acted as the 'launch' aircraft for the simulated missiles and emitted all the relevant signals in terms of target acquisition for the ships to interoperate. FRADU Hawks (operated by Serco with civilian crews) from RNAS Cauldrose accompany the Falcons and then peel away to low level to fly the missile's profile. At least, that's how it worked when I took on of my cadets (I'm an ex-space cadet (Eric - ATC (Air Training Corps (Air Cadet))) instructor) to Cauldrose to ride in the back seat of one of the Hawks.Those at Bournmouth act as target facilities aircraft for the Navy. That is to say they will run in at low level simulating a sea skimming missile (what used to be done by the FRADU Hunters and Canberras) during what is colloquially known as the 'Thursday War' which is a series of excercises held in the Danger Areas in the Channel. Additionally the Falcons have an ECM capability (Electronic Counter Measures - hence the 'pod' under the wing) where they can simulate enemy radar jamming.
The other group of Falcons is based at Teesside airport and generally operate against the RAF in the ECM training role (what used to be done by the 360 Sqn Canberra T17s).
No they don't get shot at for real!
(Having said that, 100 Sqn Hawks based at Leeming have the capability for target towing for air to air gunnery training).
Or have I got that all wrong?
The Falcons do tend to perform the odd impromptu display along Bournemouth beach before heading home.
there's a number of 'private jet' type aircraft operate by or for HM forces
there's the previously discussed FRADU Falcons
there are also the Global Express based Sentinels used as part of the ASTOR system
32 Sqn still operares BAe125s as well as the VVIP CC2 variant and 'mini tactical airlift'roled C3 variant of the BAe 146s ( although the 146 has 4 wing mounted engine s so not the aricraft discussed in the OP)
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/
there's the previously discussed FRADU Falcons
there are also the Global Express based Sentinels used as part of the ASTOR system
32 Sqn still operares BAe125s as well as the VVIP CC2 variant and 'mini tactical airlift'roled C3 variant of the BAe 146s ( although the 146 has 4 wing mounted engine s so not the aricraft discussed in the OP)
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/
acd80 said:
Sounds like Falcon 20s. They're used by FR Aviation to provide threat simulation and ew training to RN ships during 'Thursday wars'.
Was it an aircraft like this?
That looks like them. Sorry i said in my post 2 engines either side of the tailplane, i meant 2 engines at the rear, 1 either side of the tailplaneWas it an aircraft like this?
So are they owned by the RAF? I saw 3 flying together & then the next couple of times i saw them they were flying alone. Didn't see any other aircraft or ships in the vicinity but that's not to say their were none.
What are they carrying under the wings?
W8PMC said:
That looks like them. Sorry i said in my post 2 engines either side of the tailplane, i meant 2 engines at the rear, 1 either side of the tailplane
So are they owned by the RAF? I saw 3 flying together & then the next couple of times i saw them they were flying alone. Didn't see any other aircraft or ships in the vicinity but that's not to say their were none.
What are they carrying under the wings?
see Ginetta G15 Girl's post above - the Falcons are o nthe civil register and operated by cobham for the MoD - the under wing pods are equipment carriers used to simulate various of the transmissions and emissions of wfighting war places So are they owned by the RAF? I saw 3 flying together & then the next couple of times i saw them they were flying alone. Didn't see any other aircraft or ships in the vicinity but that's not to say their were none.
What are they carrying under the wings?
as GG15G explained the onces operated for Naval purposes are part of the whole whole Sea training / Thursday War thing ...
Since the 1950s aircraft have been used to train naval gunners and shipborne missile defence systems. Up until the 1980s, this service was provided "in house" by the various navy units, most recently the Fleet Requirements and Development Unit (FRADU). They operated a mixture of former front line aircraft such as the Hawker Seahawk, the English Electric Canberra, the Hawker Hunter and, in later years, the BAe Hawk.
In the 80s, the service was moved to civilian private contractors and the aircraft chosen to replace the mixture of old warplanes previously used was the French Dassault Falcon 20 biz jet - suitably modified. The names of the contractors operating the Falcons have changed a number of times over the decades but the aircraft have remained essentially the same although I am sure the internal equipment has been upgraded a number of times since 1983..
In the 80s, the service was moved to civilian private contractors and the aircraft chosen to replace the mixture of old warplanes previously used was the French Dassault Falcon 20 biz jet - suitably modified. The names of the contractors operating the Falcons have changed a number of times over the decades but the aircraft have remained essentially the same although I am sure the internal equipment has been upgraded a number of times since 1983..
Boatbuoy said:
I was under the impression that the Cobham/FRA Falcons acted as the 'launch' aircraft for the simulated missiles and emitted all the relevant signals in terms of target acquisition for the ships to interoperate. FRADU Hawks (operated by Serco with civilian crews) from RNAS Cauldrose accompany the Falcons and then peel away to low level to fly the missile's profile.
Both. Dependant upon having serviceable Hawks. Many years ago I was lucky to get a ride in a FRADU Hunter pretending to be an Exocet. The close formation with the Canberra (under the wing) was 'interesting' to say the least!
mph1977 said:
32 Sqn still operares BAe125s
With the demise of the Dominies in Jan 2011 and the reduction in the VIP fleet, the only 125s left now are the six CC3s (equivalent to the Series 700B) operated by 32(TR)Sqn at Northolt.mph1977 said:
see Ginetta G15 Girl's post above - the Falcons are o nthe civil register and operated by cobham for the MoD - the under wing pods are equipment carriers used to simulate various of the transmissions and emissions of wfighting war places
as GG15G explained the onces operated for Naval purposes are part of the whole whole Sea training / Thursday War thing ...
Thanksas GG15G explained the onces operated for Naval purposes are part of the whole whole Sea training / Thursday War thing ...
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff