What is this Defender suspension ....?

[MaverickV12]

Recently on holiday and saw this .....



and this .....



It looked wicked ....

Anyone tell me what it is ....?

Obviously got the word Fox written all over it, but don't know if that's their own stickers or some foreign make?

Thanks

[culminator]

Fox are the most prominent maker of mountain bike suspension units but never new they made units for the automotive sector.

[C Lee Farquar]

They're a poor man's Ohlins

They are a fairly common shock for people who race off road, they are American. A bit overkill for the road.

[Martin4x4]

The front is the Terrfirma twin damper system which replaces the standard single damper turret. The back is more difficult to tell given we can only see the dampers but terrfirma have a twin mounting system for the rear as well. The rear dampers have remote reservoirs (the parts with blue caps). The trailing arms look stardard, a mistake with any lift because they will drag the axle forward as it arches downwards. The yellow springs are probably Britpart.

http://www.terrafirma4x4.com

http://www.paddockspares.com/fox-shock-absorber-wi...

Edited by Martin4x4 on Friday 15th August 20:50

[mikeh501]

Fox do some large articulation and fast off road shocks.

I reckon the front is single bypass shock and poss hydraulic bump stop and the rear is definitely twin bypass shocks.

Obviously someone spent some money on it, but didn't put all the other suspension bits on it. Half a job.

[MaverickV12]

Thanks for that guys.

I want to stiffen my Defender up, if I can. Before you all fall off your mud pluggers in disgust ..... I use my Defender a lot, but it is for towing and snow, off road, I do use it, but articulation is never a problem, traction is always the issue. I use for it transporting kids all over the place as well.

So its road use and flat off road and traction on snow.

How could I make the suspension more road friendly?

[mikeh501]

most important thing would be springs (perhaps lowered), anti roll bars beefed up and a decent damper. Wouldnt have thought the damper would be the least important part.

Im sure people like alive tuning do specific kits if you want a proven solution.

Edited by mikeh501 on Tuesday 19th August 08:42

[Martin4x4]

MaverickV12 said:

Thanks for that guys.

I want to stiffen my Defender up, if I can. Before you all fall off your mud pluggers in disgust ..... I use my Defender a lot, but it is for towing and snow, off road, I do use it, but articulation is never a problem, traction is always the issue. I use for it transporting kids all over the place as well.

So its road use and flat off road and traction on snow.

How could I make the suspension more road friendly?

The twin shock setups like the TerraFirma are designed for high speed off road use like Comp-Safari where the dampers work hard and heat up fast.

Given your requirements, I agree slightly lower and stiffer springs and dampers. To goto place for fast road Defenders are http://www.jeengineering.co.uk well reguarded but pricy. BritPart are more reasonable priced http://www.britpart.com/parts/suspension-and-axle/... and buy through Paddocks http://www.paddockspares.com/

On traction you're going to be trading off; what is suitable for fast road is less suitable for off road and snow. I would recommend a second set of tyres probably fast road set and second set of AT or MT.

If you are very enthusiastic or have money to burn you could put try an LSD in the rear, e.g. Detroit Truetrac. Rear is easy swap even for a home mechanic unbolt prop shaft (4 bolts), pop out each half-shaft (5 bolts each). Drain the diff oil and unbolt diff, swap and rebuild. Under 2 hours. As a source I would personally recommend Crown Diffs but his web-site says he is not trading at the moment.

So you would probably need to go to Ashcroft, pricey but very well regarded but no personal experience.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/limited-sl...

Edited by Martin4x4 on Thursday 21st August 21:38

[The Wookie]

MaverickV12 said:

Thanks for that guys.

I want to stiffen my Defender up, if I can. Before you all fall off your mud pluggers in disgust ..... I use my Defender a lot, but it is for towing and snow, off road, I do use it, but articulation is never a problem, traction is always the issue. I use for it transporting kids all over the place as well.

So its road use and flat off road and traction on snow.

How could I make the suspension more road friendly?

Posted the same on another thread but I've just fitted a Twisted 1" drop spring and Bilstein damper kit to my 2.8i 90 and am impressed with the handling and ride. I had Koni's on it before with 26N/mm front and 39N/mm rears which had slightly better primary ride but were too weak in rebound, particularly when hot, for the road and didn't add a huge amount to the roll control from standard.

It was also a decent price, about £1k including the steering damper, which I haven't fitted yet.

[C Lee Farquar]

Stiffer suspension will give you less grip in the snow. I assume you have traction control if it's an XS, in which case fitting a LSD would be a waste of time.

I was amazed how much grip mine had on standard tyres in the snow, what specifically don't you like?

[MaverickV12]

I use these in the snow ...... they are brilliant and have chains but never used the chains



These Khumo's are my everyday tyre, love them to

If I am going to make my snow traction worse, then I'd rather do nothing. I'm looking for a Norway trip in jan/feb 2015 and snow traction will be vital then.

I also love the MT's as on the odd occasion I can be 750 miles from home and find myself down some stoney trail, the last thing I want is some road tyres with, "Puncture me", written all over it ....

off road is rare, snow and towing a must, but road use mostly (whilst full of kids)

Would Air-Suspension be a consideration, can I adjust them myself from within the car, low for motorway use, high for normal/off road and snow?

or is it cost in-effective

[mikeh501]

the problem with air suspension is that its counter to what youd actually want.

When the air bags are pumped up in pressure for better road handling it will increase ride height; and when you go off road the pressure needs to be dropped for better articulation which will in turn reduce ride height.

Also, as for LSD not working with TC; think again. It improves it considerably as the TC needs to do much less work. Will make the thing unstoppable in the snow. See this thread on defender2 http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic13545.html?hig...

[C Lee Farquar]

I raced with a Truetrac for years and I've had a 110 with traction control for years so I know exactly how they perform. It's my opinion it would be a waste of time fitting one but that's just my opinion. If I'd spent a few hundred quid fitting one (or two) I'd no doubt convince myself they were essential and maybe they would be

I'm still unsure what you want to improve OP, are you looking for less wallowing?

[MaverickV12]

C Lee Farquar said:

are you looking for less wallowing?

[C Lee Farquar]

Your wallow will be coming from the tyre walls and suspension.

Assuming you don't want lower profile tyres it may be worth playing with your pressures.

Some years ago I had the handling on a Discovery improved by Warwick Banks, This involved changing the anti roll bars, fitting custom Bilsteins and new springs. The biggest difference that made was with spirited driving on country roads, you could turn in to a bend at speed and it would behave, on the limit the back would slide. Previously on the same corners it would wallow, lose the plot and try and go straight on.

Warwick Banks are long gone but I believe Harvey Bailey did the kit if you fancy a Google.

My feeling is the anti roll bars made the most difference and if buying again I would want some from a firm that understood handling rather than the bling bolt on merchants.

[MaverickV12]

Thank you C Lee, I will give it some research.

The tyre pressures are really high in any event, compared to other cars they are atmospherical. Personally, I'm running something like 60 psi at the rear and 50 at the front. Most of the time the car is loaded, but I think that even 60 is low it should be 62 or 65, I forget.

My other cars are running 32/32psi, 32/36psi, so 50/60

Springs, shocks and anti-roll bar, ok..... what about the bushes ? Some people seem to make play that the bushes can be changed and the, "whole car handles differently".

Views on Bushes???

[MaverickV12]

http://defendersuk.co.uk/urban-defenders/suspensio...

[100SRV]

You can have firmer-feeling suspension without increasing spring rates, this is achieved by adjusting the damper valving and/or pisonts and is one of the benefits of using a rebuildable damper like Fox.

I run low rate springs on my truck (23N/mm front, 30N/mm rear) which makes it very compliant off-road, custom damper pistons and valve stacks control how the sprung mass reacts to different inputs and result in a car with sporty-handling on-road and compliant behaviour off it.

If you want to know more about how revalving some Fox dampers can change your vehicle's handling PM me...