Council Planners :0(
Discussion
Triumph Man said:
They really are a bunch of f
kwits. If you think normal planners are bad, try conservation officers!!
Ha - so rightkwits. If you think normal planners are bad, try conservation officers!!I was made to use natural slate on a roof that you could only see from a helicopter!
Currently I have a tree officer who is also a Muppet. He is making us comply with every single line of BS5837 even where it is totally irrelevant, ie the access road being 100m from the nearest protected rootzone, but he still wants a detailed method statement and a "no dig" road construction
On the flip side my friend was fighting planners in Battersea who were determined to grant permission on demolishing a thriving pub to build 9 flats (if you've been to Battersea, you will know it is wall to wall high rise flats and hundreds more being built). Despite thousands (literally) of objections, the council seemed almost desperate to pass a hideous scheme in a conservation area replacing a small 2 storey pub (admitedly not that pretty) with large garden with a four storey monolith that fills the site. The developers have a pretend pub underneath as a concession which they have adverised the lease for at comically over market rates. Plan is clearly to make it fail and then apply for change of use to another Tesco Metro or similar.
The inconsistency is maddening! I remember a Homes Under the Hammer where the bloke wanted to replace all the windows in a very old cottage with new ones to the original style and design. He was a carpenter and was going to use the right materials etc. but the conservation officer insisted on restoring the later hideous design windows instead. Bonkers
The inconsistency is maddening! I remember a Homes Under the Hammer where the bloke wanted to replace all the windows in a very old cottage with new ones to the original style and design. He was a carpenter and was going to use the right materials etc. but the conservation officer insisted on restoring the later hideous design windows instead. Bonkers
dino ferrana said:
On the flip side my friend was fighting planners in Battersea who were determined to grant permission on demolishing a thriving pub to build 9 flats (if you've been to Battersea, you will know it is wall to wall high rise flats and hundreds more being built). Despite thousands (literally) of objections, the council seemed almost desperate to pass a hideous scheme in a conservation area replacing a small 2 storey pub (admitedly not that pretty) with large garden with a four storey monolith that fills the site. The developers have a pretend pub underneath as a concession which they have adverised the lease for at comically over market rates. Plan is clearly to make it fail and then apply for change of use to another Tesco Metro or similar.
Surely it's the owners of the pub/plot that wanted to do that, and the planners just refused to stop it?Thousands of objectors to some flats? If they loved the pub so much they should buy it.
The brewery mislead the developer into thinking it was a failing pub (never visited it themselves to check), they did the deal in days giving the tenants insufficient time to raise the asking price. Unfortunately it is worth far more as development land than as a pub!
Once all the London pubs are gone, someone might realise that we actually liked them and although there are probably too many and some deserve to fail, the dirty tricks employed by some to make this happen need to be curtailed!
Once all the London pubs are gone, someone might realise that we actually liked them and although there are probably too many and some deserve to fail, the dirty tricks employed by some to make this happen need to be curtailed!
dino ferrana said:
The brewery mislead the developer into thinking it was a failing pub (never visited it themselves to check), they did the deal in days giving the tenants insufficient time to raise the asking price. Unfortunately it is worth far more as development land than as a pub!
Once all the London pubs are gone, someone might realise that we actually liked them and although there are probably too many and some deserve to fail, the dirty tricks employed by some to make this happen need to be curtailed!
Yeah, very true about the dearth of good pubs, but who are we to tell a pub owner what to do with his personal property?Once all the London pubs are gone, someone might realise that we actually liked them and although there are probably too many and some deserve to fail, the dirty tricks employed by some to make this happen need to be curtailed!
If the market wants pubs, the market will provide/protect pubs.
I am in the process of buying a pub that was totally unviable to demolish it and build apartments.
The pub was losing over half a million per annum.
The 5 regulars have just managed to get it registered as a Community Asset, so I have a 6 month moratorium and will probably have to kiss goodbye to £100k spent to date.
That £100k lost means that I can't employ another land manager for a year, so thats one less job in the economy and circa £100k of corporation tax on the profit that won't be paid, a bunch of local building jobs (in a depressed area) that won't be created, all through a stupid policy that is a sop to the NIMBY's
The pub was losing over half a million per annum.
The 5 regulars have just managed to get it registered as a Community Asset, so I have a 6 month moratorium and will probably have to kiss goodbye to £100k spent to date.
That £100k lost means that I can't employ another land manager for a year, so thats one less job in the economy and circa £100k of corporation tax on the profit that won't be paid, a bunch of local building jobs (in a depressed area) that won't be created, all through a stupid policy that is a sop to the NIMBY's
The owner sold it to a developer without giving the tenants a chance to buy it. They lied to the developer about it failing (my friend knew the old landlords personally and had seen the books). Once the developer purchased the pub they hiked the rent hugely above market value to try to force out the tenants, but they kept it going despite the additional financial pressure. Then they just tried to terminate them until the council told them that would count against them in the planning process.
The group set up to save the pub actually proposed a different scheme for redevelopment which would have seen the garden retained, but the developer able to make a decent profit without opposition. Developer absolutely refused to discuss anything except their plan. Some how they got an ugly building, zero architectural merit block built in a conservation area... The council even tried to claim the pub was never "intended" to be in the conservation area, despite it clearly being within it on the map from when it as created.
The pubs with five old blokes drinking a couple of pints each a night are all over the place and not viable, but a thriving pub with good food and drink business, which was busy lunchtimes, week nights and weekends is not in that category. We certainly have excess pubs in some areas, but this was one with a big sunny garden, thriving trade and a good reputation. Now it will be a failing wine bar and then a Tesco Extra... I am no communist, but that is where the free market at all costs approach goes a bit far.
The group set up to save the pub actually proposed a different scheme for redevelopment which would have seen the garden retained, but the developer able to make a decent profit without opposition. Developer absolutely refused to discuss anything except their plan. Some how they got an ugly building, zero architectural merit block built in a conservation area... The council even tried to claim the pub was never "intended" to be in the conservation area, despite it clearly being within it on the map from when it as created.
The pubs with five old blokes drinking a couple of pints each a night are all over the place and not viable, but a thriving pub with good food and drink business, which was busy lunchtimes, week nights and weekends is not in that category. We certainly have excess pubs in some areas, but this was one with a big sunny garden, thriving trade and a good reputation. Now it will be a failing wine bar and then a Tesco Extra... I am no communist, but that is where the free market at all costs approach goes a bit far.
TBH, until the Community Asset nonsense a developer wouldn't care whether the pub made a profit, unless he was buying as a going concern to minimise tax and he had to hold it. This is a rare deal structure though.
The Landlords books almost certainly aren't a measure of profitability. Thje brewery is probably carrying costs the landlord won't see.
The Landlords books almost certainly aren't a measure of profitability. Thje brewery is probably carrying costs the landlord won't see.
Brewery also charging the tenants more than the going rate for beer by virtue of the wonderful tie system! COuld have been more profitable as an indy and they had done A LOT of work to it at their own cost.
Developers should think about if people like it or not though, the developer that bought that pub had to pay a fortune in redoing plans, delays etc. because they took someone's word for it that it was failing. They bought two others that were and didn't get any opposition. I don't think they will buy a pub without going inside it again first!
Developers should think about if people like it or not though, the developer that bought that pub had to pay a fortune in redoing plans, delays etc. because they took someone's word for it that it was failing. They bought two others that were and didn't get any opposition. I don't think they will buy a pub without going inside it again first!
foliedouce said:
Yep, local authorities are useless the country over.
I put in permitted development mid November, the target determination date was mid December, eventually got the approval in July. Yes 8 months later. And that's not even planning, just a tick box against the permitted development legislation so no subjectivity, they just had to go down the list to make sure my application conformed to what Central Gov has given them in black and white.
fking morons.
What a stupid comment. So you've personally had dealings with every planning authority in the country then? I put in permitted development mid November, the target determination date was mid December, eventually got the approval in July. Yes 8 months later. And that's not even planning, just a tick box against the permitted development legislation so no subjectivity, they just had to go down the list to make sure my application conformed to what Central Gov has given them in black and white.
f
king morons. Yes, your experience was p**s poor, and probably similar to some other councils, but there are others that provide a pretty good service despite budget cuts and reduced staffing levels.
I submit applications in circa 70 authorities each year. The bad out number the good by an enormous margin and sadly many are really bad.
I have been submitting applications for 30 years as a developer. There is no doubt that the whole process is much worse than it was when I started out.
I have been submitting applications for 30 years as a developer. There is no doubt that the whole process is much worse than it was when I started out.
Escort3500 said:
What a stupid comment.
Yes, your experience was p**s poor, and probably similar to some other councils, but there are others that provide a pretty good service despite budget cuts and reduced staffing levels.
Please name one.Yes, your experience was p**s poor, and probably similar to some other councils, but there are others that provide a pretty good service despite budget cuts and reduced staffing levels.
I'd happily abolish all councils.
If my workload dictates I work late - I work late.
If to hit a target date I have to work at weekends - so be it.
If it means I don't go on holiday - I don't go on holiday.
They have no concept of customer care / loyalty nor competition as they don't have either and my god it shows.
blueg33 said:
I submit applications in circa 70 authorities each year. The bad out number the good by an enormous margin and sadly many are really bad.
I have been submitting applications for 30 years as a developer. There is no doubt that the whole process is much worse than it was when I started out.
I wouldn't disagree on your last point and respect your balanced view of the good v bad based on actual experience, rather than the blanket "all councils are crap" post that I was responding to.I have been submitting applications for 30 years as a developer. There is no doubt that the whole process is much worse than it was when I started out.
I can imagine how vexatious and life-shortening many of these problems with planners must be?
And I was all set for a similar battle a few years ago....but to redress the balance, I was probably lucky enough to have had one of the most simple, stress-free applications?
I saw a commercial property in a North Norfolk town. It was a small manufacturing business, in a detached building, situated amongst some residential properties. The owner and businessman was retiring, and trying to see it as a going concern.
I think to myself 'forget the business, I reckon I could strip that down, build a 1st floor and turn it into a lovely detached cottage...'
I took a risk, bought it, and put in for planning with North Norfolk District Council to do exactly that, with some rudimentary plans drawn up by a local architect.
It just went straight through, no questions, no opposition, nothing, and took very little time. I have to say, I was amazed! I didn't expect that, especially after what some people post on here with their battles.
I guess that for every aggravating application, there are others which go through like greased weasels?
And I was all set for a similar battle a few years ago....but to redress the balance, I was probably lucky enough to have had one of the most simple, stress-free applications?
I saw a commercial property in a North Norfolk town. It was a small manufacturing business, in a detached building, situated amongst some residential properties. The owner and businessman was retiring, and trying to see it as a going concern.
I think to myself 'forget the business, I reckon I could strip that down, build a 1st floor and turn it into a lovely detached cottage...'
I took a risk, bought it, and put in for planning with North Norfolk District Council to do exactly that, with some rudimentary plans drawn up by a local architect.
It just went straight through, no questions, no opposition, nothing, and took very little time. I have to say, I was amazed! I didn't expect that, especially after what some people post on here with their battles.
I guess that for every aggravating application, there are others which go through like greased weasels?
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