Council Planners :0(

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Renovation

Original Poster:

1,763 posts

120 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Is it just me ?

I want a simple second storey extension - only two small rooms built on top of the existing single storey extension but I'm in the greenbelt.

I talk to the planner and she agreed in principal to it but said ought to use the householder pre planning advice.

I did this - they are supposed to take 3 weeks to reply.

Despite calling and emailing after dragging her feet for 5+ weeks she admitted she's too busy and is only working on Planning Applications - yet it was her who insisted I started the process !

So I submitted an application online.

Why does it take the Planning Portal 3 days to pass an Email to the council ?

Still it's now submitted - only it isn't...

I call and after a week I'm told it's fine and in the system and has an Application number.

I keep checking but it's not coming up online so I contact the Planner - after two weeks she says she hasn't seen it and there's a backlog - how is this my problem - they have 8 weeks ?

Almost 3 weeks later she's finally told me it ISN'T registered as she wants more info - specifically drawings of the one elevation that isn't affected by the extension - ie will not change, nor can the extension be seen from that side.

Surely this can't be right ?

I've spoken to my architect and he says to play along as they hold all the cards but this woman has cost me in excess of 8 weeks already.


Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
You are not alone.

Last year, a new commercial tenant of mine applied for a simple change of use on a property. This typically takes 8 weeks. But, due to the unique way Tower Hamlets council's planning department is run, the process instead took twenty one weeks.

They then happily charged me the business rates for the period that the property was empty due to their negligence.

Useless, useless, useless.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
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They are a law unto themselves.

My only advice is to try and keep the relationship friendly, no matter how frustrated you may feel.

blueg33

35,580 posts

223 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Welcome to the world of planning

Try doing 50 plus applications a year - its why I look a loty older than I am.

They system is crap, the Councils/planning departments take the piss, the cost to the economy of the delays is huge.

I have just had to pay £1800 for a pre application meeting on 16 apartments, they can't give me a date for 5 weeks. Another authority took a month to validate an application and still wanted the full 13 weeks to determine, they failed to determine in that time and want me to withdraw the application and re-submit so they can start the 13 weeks again - that one is being appealed

covmutley

3,012 posts

189 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
I deal with this day in, day out. Worst part of my job.

I can understand there may be resourcing issues, but what really annoys me is that they don't see any problem with it. I called one council last week about an application in progress and their new policy is that officers will not take phone calls! Public servants, and where an application fee of over £15k had been paid! Unbelievable!

Keep hounding the validation team, but try not to get of on the wrong foot with the case officer.

Renovation

Original Poster:

1,763 posts

120 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
It makes me feel a little better that I'm not alone.

I'm smiling at her through gritted teeth.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
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covmutley said:
I can understand there may be resourcing issues
Are resourcing issues now why there are various permitted developments (sorry, I have no idea how long they've been around) and currently what is permitted is more (until 2016)?

blueg33

35,580 posts

223 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Renovation said:
It makes me feel a little better that I'm not alone.

I'm smiling at her through gritted teeth.
I don't attend planning meetings anymore. I have to send others. I nearly hit a planner a couple of years ago. He made me change the scheme 3 times costing me £50k then admitted he hadn't even seen the site and didn't believe that there were trees on the adjoining land.

z4emsee

121 posts

143 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
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Friend of mine wants to build a garage. It needs planning permission. I do him some drawings and he takes them in for a bit of pre submission 'advice'. He's told point blank that permission would not be granted due to the proximity of a nearby listed building on an adjacent property. We decided to test this and put the application in anyway. Guess what... 8 weeks later and without any contact from the planners the application was approved with no mention of the listed building. The planners report which went on the website also doesn't mention the listed building once. They really don't do themselves any favours...

arfur sleep

1,166 posts

218 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
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Friends applied to extend their house in similar manner to the other properties on their side of their street.

1st application refused - extended building was going to be too close to the adjoining property (less than a metre) even though they were extending over the original garage and maintaining the building line. Moved new 2nd storey wall back half a metre to give the step as specified by planning, creating huge amount more work for architect, potential problems for builder and associated costs.

2nd application refused as now the extension not in keeping with rest of street - its a row of 5 houses which have all been extended / altered individually to a large degree from original bar my friends one.

Appealed decision. Appeal refused for same reasons.

3rd application made with extension focussed on rear of property not on front/side. No visible alteration to front of house and proposed rear would not be beyond building line established by neighbours houses either side which had rear extensions. New extension would not overlook or be overlooked by anyone from rear due to existing fence / trees.

Application refused for various reasons including building line, restricting light to neighbours, overlooking etc.

Appealed decision. Appeal refused for same reasons.

Friends gave up.

This whole process took 18 months mainly due to the planning department taking over a month to answer any query or arrange meetings.

During that period, a developer bought two old houses at the top of the street and was allowed to knock them down and squeezed 4 "McExecutive" homes on the land. The gaps between all the houses being less than a metre. The biggest one was subsequently extended on side right up to the edge of the boundary which took it less than a metre of an pre-existing house. All the properties overlooked other pre-existing properties. Parking on street is a problem now as new houses only have 1 car drives but all have min 2 cars...

My friends had engaged a consultant to help with the appeals - ex planning officer for the council - and he couldn't explain why all of their proposals were refused given the previous extensions to other properties (some of which were very recent) and the permission given to the developer. I believe he even refunded some of his fee given the unexplainable lack of success.

deanogtv

743 posts

219 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
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Further to my recent post, I've been trying to get a answer out of our council for weeks. Found a plot, in green belt, all I need is a heads up if my plans aren't stupid. Back in the day you'd call the Duty Planning Officer, pop in with a drawing and have a chat. Not now, have to apply on online, £300 fee, 10 days wait for appointment which turns out to be 25 days and only then it wasn't that helpful.
The system is shocking.

foliedouce

3,067 posts

230 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
Yep, local authorities are useless the country over.

I put in permitted development mid November, the target determination date was mid December, eventually got the approval in July. Yes 8 months later. And that's not even planning, just a tick box against the permitted development legislation so no subjectivity, they just had to go down the list to make sure my application conformed to what Central Gov has given them in black and white.

fking morons.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
deanogtv said:
Further to my recent post, I've been trying to get a answer out of our council for weeks. Found a plot, in green belt, all I need is a heads up if my plans aren't stupid. Back in the day you'd call the Duty Planning Officer, pop in with a drawing and have a chat. Not now, have to apply on online, £300 fee, 10 days wait for appointment which turns out to be 25 days and only then it wasn't that helpful.
The system is shocking.
Do you expect to get approval for a house in a green belt?

blueg33

35,580 posts

223 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
herewego said:
deanogtv said:
Further to my recent post, I've been trying to get a answer out of our council for weeks. Found a plot, in green belt, all I need is a heads up if my plans aren't stupid. Back in the day you'd call the Duty Planning Officer, pop in with a drawing and have a chat. Not now, have to apply on online, £300 fee, 10 days wait for appointment which turns out to be 25 days and only then it wasn't that helpful.
The system is shocking.
Do you expect to get approval for a house in a green belt?
Depends whats on it. Footprint replacement is usually allowed

foliedouce

3,067 posts

230 months

Thursday 14th August 2014
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
Depends whats on it. Footprint replacement is usually allowed
And in fact normally the footprint of the original house (defined by what was there in 1948 or first house built after that) plus 50%

There are a few loop holes to that as well to get bigger

Renovation

Original Poster:

1,763 posts

120 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Now she's taking the pi$$ - I submitted what she requested.

I followed that up with a call - voicemail

I followed that up with an Email - no reply

I've now found she's gone on holiday today and still hasn't validated my application, nor told me why.

So I've gone over her head - possibly not the best idea but FFS !!!!!

I've spoken to her manager and Emailed him everything - hopefully at least I'll get an answer.

Aeroresh

1,429 posts

231 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Best cause of action is to apply pressure on your local ward member(s).

Get them on side and things usually go a lot smoother as they'll badger the line manager for you. This goes for anything council related really as they're mostly a bunch of lazy half wits (imo!)

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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In my experience it's less hassle to move house than it is to try to deal with these cretins. When I lived with my ex we had a crumbling old asbestos garage which we wanted to remove and replace with a new garage of exactly the same size and in exactly the same place. But, because of the position of the garage relative to the house, we weren't simply allowed to get rid of the old one and replace it with a new one. They were so obstructive that in the end we gave up. I've long since moved on but as far as I'm aware the old garage is still there - seems the planners would rather have a dilapidated eyesore than cooperate so you can get a tidy, hazard-free new building installed quickly.

blueg33

35,580 posts

223 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Renovation said:
Now she's taking the pi$$ - I submitted what she requested.

I followed that up with a call - voicemail

I followed that up with an Email - no reply

I've now found she's gone on holiday today and still hasn't validated my application, nor told me why.

So I've gone over her head - possibly not the best idea but FFS !!!!!

I've spoken to her manager and Emailed him everything - hopefully at least I'll get an answer.
This is normal service! No you have an idea why developers are always pressurising government to sort the planning system. When millions of pounds and a raft of jobs rely on timely decision its make a difference.

On the plus side, occasionally you get good service. Just got an approval on 16 apartments in 6 weeks from validation smile

Triumph Man

8,670 posts

167 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
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They really are a bunch of fkwits. If you think normal planners are bad, try conservation officers!!