Uprated Aluminium Radiator

Uprated Aluminium Radiator

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Discussion

Swiss_Toni

Original Poster:

412 posts

182 months

Friday 15th August 2014
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I've noticed that both Ultima and Radtec http://radtec.co.uk/products/491/Ultima.htm both offer Uprated Aluminium Radiators.

Does anyone have any experience with either or know of any pro or cons?

Is there anyone else that offer these?

Cheers

V8Dom

3,546 posts

201 months

Friday 15th August 2014
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I wanted to fit one of these a few years ago before the factory offered it as a update. Ted told advised didn't recommend it for the road as the standard one was part of the crash structure and would seriously reduce strength on an impact. He also indicated a reduction in weight over the front would alter balance and front grip.

I think you will find its race only.. I didn't buy one after the advise although I know radtec and there rads are top quality..

Corsair613

260 posts

121 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
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V8Dom said:
I wanted to fit one of these a few years ago before the factory offered it as a update. Ted told advised didn't recommend it for the road as the standard one was part of the crash structure and would seriously reduce strength on an impact. He also indicated a reduction in weight over the front would alter balance and front grip.

I think you will find its race only.. I didn't buy one after the advise although I know radtec and there rads are top quality..
I ordered the AL radiator with my kit and Richard never said a word about crash structure/balance/grip, etc. If it's race-only, that's the first I've heard of it. Perhaps that changed with the uprated chassis?

Ken

V8Dom

3,546 posts

201 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
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Maybe they have now tested it too. That new chassis does look super strong!. It was before they offered it and might well have changed their option after testing.

Swiss_Toni

Original Poster:

412 posts

182 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
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I understand it being used as crash structure but I don't know how useful it would be as mine is mounted on 4 small rubber vibration isolators.....

UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
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They are all mounted on 4 rubber bobbins.

Swiss_Toni

Original Poster:

412 posts

182 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
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Hi Daniel,

Did you go for the uprated Alu rad?

Greg

UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
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Nope, the standard copper one.

srreck

529 posts

260 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
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I'm using one from Radtec , better cooling and good reduction in weight. Cheers

Swiss_Toni

Original Poster:

412 posts

182 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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Thanks for the feedback.

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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12kg weight reduction IIRC - not convinced there is much effect in terms of cooling performance, if so it is not significant. Looks much nicer though!

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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macgtech said:
........not convinced there is much effect in terms of cooling performance........
My understanding is that copper and brass shift more heat than ali.
max_torque will be along shortly to give use the physics to prove or disprove this.

Steve

As said, they are pretty though.

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Monday 18th August 2014
quotequote all
Steve_D said:
My understanding is that copper and brass shift more heat than ali.
max_torque will be along shortly to give use the physics to prove or disprove this.

Steve

As said, they are pretty though.
I don't think there is much in it - the major factor is the surface area and finish - which is surely about the same on both. The specific heat capacity of copper and brass is much lower (~30%) than Aluminium, but they are about 3 times denser so not much difference pound for pound.

Emissivity is likely to be higher on the painted black rad, which should help a bit.

UltimaFAN

107 posts

128 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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The thermal conductivity is the key parameter (higher = better):
- Copper (pure) = 401 W m-1 K-1 but slightly reduced due to the requirement of paint
- Aluminium (pure, not alloy) = 237 W m-1 K-1
- Brass (depends of alloy it includes a lot of possibilities), from 54 to 130 W m-1 K-1. Brass should be used only for the frame of the radiator.

For road car, I would prefer the copper one to have better cooling in traffic-jam.
For racing or not hot region, the alu one. The lower thermal conductivity can be compensated with faster fans/good flow.


Swiss_Toni

Original Poster:

412 posts

182 months

Monday 18th August 2014
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Interesting discussion....

As this for a race car the Aluminum one is the easy choice, at -12 KG how could I say no...

Though the comments did make me think and a quick Google came up with this http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html

The long and the short of is pick your application and requirements and either one will be good (as long as it's a good rad).

crossram

291 posts

123 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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I have tested the 4 bobbins and they will hold the standard radiator in place if you hit any animal smaller than a squirrel such as chipmunk, hedge hog, vole, mole, small rat or mouse.

srreck

529 posts

260 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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Due to our warm weather in Spain .....cooling problems are serious when in traffic and even on track. I asked to a few radiator manufacturers here and all of them have the same opinión about the stock Ultima cooper radiator....... "too thick".
In their opinión when the fresh air goes through the radiator its cooling properties are null or ineffective once it passes the middle zone. In this way the rear of the radiator remains hot and all that hot water returns "untouched" to the circuit.

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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Changed from the stock brass to a custom alloy, I do not see much in the cooling but the weight is substantial. THe stock fans I received from the factory in 2007 where alright but not near as good as whats available and on the car today. More importantly is the way you install the fans in 2007 the factory had you mount the fans straight onto the back of the core. Effectively when you are standing still air is only flowing through that part of the radiator covered by the fan the rest is just setting there. On Chris Julian's car which is at my carbon guys shop getting tweaked (more on that at another time) the fans are in a proper fixture that pulls air from most of the radiator. I do not know if this is a latter factory piece or not. Bottom line, close in the air path to the radiator leave the air nowhere to go but thought the radiator. Make the fan pull from 100% of the radiator for stand still cooling. I have used distilled water and water wetters with no antifreeze for years and never seen a corrosion problem. BUT it does not freeze where I live. Lee

UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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Lee,
If I understand you correctly, it would make sense to make a shroud to enclose the rear of rad to get all the air to flow through the two fans.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
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Depending on the size of your fans and that of the radiator, you may need to add "flappers" to allow sufficient airflow through the rear fan shroud when moving. Most production vehicles use these:



(down the rhs of that shroud)