Vac Advance & Shutny / Jerky Cruising

Vac Advance & Shutny / Jerky Cruising

Author
Discussion

Malcster

Original Poster:

642 posts

171 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
So, I've had a very slight jerk while cursing at constant throttle.
After trying a few things, I think I have finally found what is causing this.

If I remove the vacuum advance pipe from the plenum, and block off the connector on the plenum, it runs silky smooth!

I then thought the vac advance diaphragm must be cracked/leaking. So I tried the suck-test - I can hear the diaphragm moving, and it will stick to my tongue. I can also feel/see the rotor arm moving very slightly as I suck on the vac pipe.

At the plenum end the connector isn't blocked, I checked that - can blow air through it.

The vac pipe itself isn't leaking, if I block one end with my thumb, I cannot suck air through.

Any ideas why disconnecting the pipe from the plenum & blocking up the plenum connector will smooth the rough running out, when all seems to be working?

Would this point to the timing being out?
If so, what would cause the timing to go out?

RDJ

7,251 posts

233 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
Inline plastic non reverse valve back to front?



Edited by RDJ on Sunday 17th August 17:44

Malcster

Original Poster:

642 posts

171 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
Hmmm, where is that valve?
Don't think it's been off the car, but worth checking!

What end should the 'carb' label be facing?

Could it be that there's not enough pressure in the plenum to create the vaccum alog the pipe?

SMB

1,513 posts

266 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
RDJ said:
Inline plastic non reverse valve back to front?



Edited by RDJ on Sunday 17th August 17:44
This isn't standard fitment on a chimaera.

RDJ

7,251 posts

233 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
SMB said:
RDJ said:
Inline plastic non reverse valve back to front?



Edited by RDJ on Sunday 17th August 17:44
This isn't standard fitment on a chimaera.
Present on both of my 430s


ETA:

http://www.tvrshop.com/tvr-car-parts/engine/engine...


Edited by RDJ on Sunday 17th August 20:26

Rib

2,548 posts

189 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
I have exacty the same issue since I had it serviced. he pointed out that the valve was the 'wrong way round' even though the 'dist' went to the dizzy etc, but when you blew in either side you can obviously tell which way its working. after that I have had this very light throttle judder at cruising. I have been told there is no reason to run the valve and to just remove it and have a single pipe

SMB

1,513 posts

266 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
RDJ said:
Present on both of my 430s


ETA:

http://www.tvrshop.com/tvr-car-parts/engine/engine...


Edited by RDJ on Sunday 17th August 20:26
Hmmmn, not on my serpentine 400 owned for 19 years, perhaps was only on the 430 or pre serpentines, I see the op has a 2000 400 serpentine.
This seems to confirm my not original spec, but often added
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The original serpentine air line for the distributor was hard plastic so it would be impossible to fit this unless a new flexible pipe is added.

Edited by SMB on Sunday 17th August 22:05

Proper Stokey

144 posts

119 months

Monday 18th August 2014
quotequote all
Hi, exactly the same thing with mine (400 pre-serp Chim), seemed to be the wrong way around even though it was installed "dist" to dist and "carb" to the plenum. Looked in the Steve Heath bible and it says that they are problematic and a lot of people remove them with little or no side effects - so I did.

It has made a tremendous difference to be honest, it's not 100% cured the shunting but a hell of a lot better.

Jase.

semaj

92 posts

126 months

Monday 18th August 2014
quotequote all
I think they are a Ford part and are vey cheap (not £25+!!). I seem to remember them on CVH engines and were referred to as 'spark delay' valves to slow up vacuum shunt. I usually chucked them in the bin! Having said that my wife's 430 has one and no probs so far.

Oldred_V8S

3,715 posts

238 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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Removed the one on my V8S and no adverse effect, if anything, the mpg improved.

RDJ

7,251 posts

233 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
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I'm going to remove mine just to see if it alters anything.

Malcster

Original Poster:

642 posts

171 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
Yep, my car definitely doesn't have this attached.

Still no idea how removing the vac-advance from the plenum, and blocking the plenum connector stops this jerking at small-throttle inputs.

From what I understand, the vac-advance advances the timing under small throttle openings (i.e. high-vacuum).

When I suck on the vacuum pipe, I can hear the diaphragm move, and see the rotor arm move slightly (i.e. advancing timing?) so I would think this is working.

That would lead me to believe I'm not getting enough vacuum to enable this to happen?

OleVix

1,438 posts

148 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
Malcster said:
Yep, my car definitely doesn't have this attached.

Still no idea how removing the vac-advance from the plenum, and blocking the plenum connector stops this jerking at small-throttle inputs.

From what I understand, the vac-advance advances the timing under small throttle openings (i.e. high-vacuum).

When I suck on the vacuum pipe, I can hear the diaphragm move, and see the rotor arm move slightly (i.e. advancing timing?) so I would think this is working.

That would lead me to believe I'm not getting enough vacuum to enable this to happen?
maybe your dizzy is off whn it gets vacuum... try with another dizzy?

NZ fan

310 posts

134 months

Tuesday 19th August 2014
quotequote all
You could try checking the integrity of the wires running from the pickup on the vac. Advance plate to the body of the dizzy.
Not unheard of for these to brake and loose contact when the vacuum advance pulls the plate around. A simple test would be to suck on the vac. Hose with the engine running and see if it stumbles.

Malcster

Original Poster:

642 posts

171 months

Wednesday 20th August 2014
quotequote all
Problem solved!

Timing was out, set it up with a stroboscope, and no more jerking!

Happy days!

TVR Stef

61 posts

166 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
Malcster said:
Problem solved!

Timing was out, set it up with a stroboscope, and no more jerking!

Happy days!
Out of interest what did you set the timing to?

Malcster

Original Poster:

642 posts

171 months

Thursday 21st August 2014
quotequote all
28 degrees at 4k RPM, with vac advance removed.

Had to bring a spare car battery - leads on the strobe gun wouldn't reach into the footwell.