Making the switch from running new cars to older cars
Discussion
Muzzer79 said:
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
I once bought a Rover SD1 3500SE auto that was a complete disaster, and ended up breaking it. I think it was about 8 years old at the time. Does that count? 
Shaoxter said:
Sevo said:
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me. Warranties seem to be of debatable value and the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off.
Same as spending £30k on a brand new car and taking a £5k depreciation hit as you drive it off the forecourt...Also for the used cars you're considering the repair bills are not going to be £5k unless the engine breaks or something.
had the (manual) box start to fail on our S5 and the bill for the replacement box was scary (warranty thank god).
it's the only real worry I have about running Quattro's out of warranty
Do people really buy new cars to keep up with the neighbours? Anyone I know who has a new car has done so because they think they are going to have a more reliable car than an older one, especially if they have no mechanical knowledge or need a car for work. They probably haven't even thought of depreciation but want to avoid unexpected large garage bills associated with an older car. However I never did work out the logic of a workmate who insisted on getting rid of his new car every 3 years before it needed an MOT. Firstly a 3 year old car should sail through an MOT and even in the unlikely event of it needing something it would surely still be cheaper than buying a new car!
I've never had a brand new car. I bought my current car when it was just under 4 years old and have had it for just over 4 years. It only had 19k on the clock when I got it and it now has approx 47k on the clock. My job is fairly local so mileage is still fairly low, so I see no need to get rid just because it is approaching 8 years old. I found a good independent garage who operate a courtesy car service should my car need anything. But the car has only been in there for servicing and MOTs. It did fail last year as it had cracked rear springs, but it was sorted in a day. Not exactly a bank breaking repair.
I've never had a brand new car. I bought my current car when it was just under 4 years old and have had it for just over 4 years. It only had 19k on the clock when I got it and it now has approx 47k on the clock. My job is fairly local so mileage is still fairly low, so I see no need to get rid just because it is approaching 8 years old. I found a good independent garage who operate a courtesy car service should my car need anything. But the car has only been in there for servicing and MOTs. It did fail last year as it had cracked rear springs, but it was sorted in a day. Not exactly a bank breaking repair.
Excellent thread, thanks for starting it. I took had new car syndrome. Felt edgy at 3 years. Now have a 6.5yo, that has more gadgets and comfort than I've ever had before, for a lot less money. I changed the battery to be safe, and the tyres/wheels cos I wanted to. The car so far is lovely. It had options specked up costing as much as the whole car cost me!! I'm going to get the oil changed regularly and enjoy it. Ok it's not fast at all, and it likes the unleaded, but it's wafty, safe, handles pretty well and makes me feel relaxed on my commute to the big s
tty. Couldn't ask for more considering everything. Next car will probably be same model but faster.
tty. Couldn't ask for more considering everything. Next car will probably be same model but faster.Muzzer79 said:
Funny how these types of threads always lead to an avalanche of people posting about how their >x< year old >insert barge/sports car/other< has cost them buttons to run over the last >x< years and that everyone should do it rather than suffer the indignity of depreciation.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
I contributed earlier in the thread in support of the idea of running an older car, but I'll bite here with a story from my dad's 944.However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
Picked up in haste without a decent inspection, and ran as a daily when the previous 3 owners had put less than 10k miles on it in 15 years, it soon needed extra work over the regular servicing/model-specific replacement of components such as cam belts, water pumps etc. It's just failed its MoT due to corrosion, which would cost about £2k to fix. Given it's now a 3rd car and used sparingly, it's headed for the scrappy unless someone can save it. Overall cost, including purchase? I'd hate to think, but he's reached tipping point with the thing.
Learning point? Check the purchase and its history thoroughly. Don't buy in haste. And finally, some cars approach an age where many things need replaced at once and the thing generally needs a "Trigger's Broom" approach to renovation - constantly chasing faults about the car. Some people can live with this, but I agree that on a daily, it can get wearing - and costly.
Muzzer79 said:
Funny how these types of threads always lead to an avalanche of people posting about how their >x< year old >insert barge/sports car/other< has cost them buttons to run over the last >x< years and that everyone should do it rather than suffer the indignity of depreciation.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
Because, of course, nobody's EVER bought a duff new car, have they?However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
jonah35 said:
997, rs4, m6, jag Xk, m5, e92 m3, 4x4s etc all under £20k.
Id go for an rs4 for £17k ish if thats your bag, get it checked over an dip the depreciation shouldn't be too bad.
Put a bid more aside for wear and tear.
This pretty much or add a few K more and buy an approved used one and pay each year to extend the warranty.Id go for an rs4 for £17k ish if thats your bag, get it checked over an dip the depreciation shouldn't be too bad.
Put a bid more aside for wear and tear.
Ive trodden both paths over the years.
Taking the cost of depreciation out of the equation for a minute; Ive found when buying a brand new car it has been stressful - the fear of damage, the first stonechip or parking dent etc. Then there is the hassle of having to go through the main dealer for everything.
Whereas a used car has maybe already had paintwork done or a few dents and I can relax a bit and get on with enjoying it.
Taking the cost of depreciation out of the equation for a minute; Ive found when buying a brand new car it has been stressful - the fear of damage, the first stonechip or parking dent etc. Then there is the hassle of having to go through the main dealer for everything.
Whereas a used car has maybe already had paintwork done or a few dents and I can relax a bit and get on with enjoying it.
Muzzer79 said:
Funny how these types of threads always lead to an avalanche of people posting about how their >x< year old >insert barge/sports car/other< has cost them buttons to run over the last >x< years and that everyone should do it rather than suffer the indignity of depreciation.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
I agree with you. There's no question that if you're playing in this space you need to have some knowledge and do your research. It's not the domain for buy and forget and you have to be forgiving for cars with age related issues.However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
A car I purchased last year (unusually from a dealer) was due a cambelt change. The dealer feigned ignorance but said he'd check the service requirements. He came back very quickly and agreed that the car was due a new cambelt, organised the new cambelt and the deal was done. If I had not known that a change was due I'm sure he would have happily taken my cash at the agreed price.
I've ran a 20 year old golf gti that had 170,000 miles on it with no service history and it ran perfectly and in the year I owned it the worst thing that happened was I put diesel in it!
Had a nearly new a4 (6 months old and 5,000 miles when we bought it) and it was in the dealership a total of 10-15 times for all sorts of issues always done under warranty but once it was out of warranty we kept the car for 2 years and surprisingly only needed brakes, tyres and a service every 8,000miles.
Ran a couple of new mercs and they had issues as well.
Most 5-7 year old cars are still considered fairly new so some owners usually treat them well but some also think it's new and will last as long as they need it to without spending any money on it. Just look for a good service history and signs that the owner hasn't skimped on maintanance. Decent matching tyres and not covered in scratches is a good sign. As with any make and model you will find cars that are taken care of and you will find neglected examples... Just depends on how good you are at spotting a neglected and abused car.
Had a nearly new a4 (6 months old and 5,000 miles when we bought it) and it was in the dealership a total of 10-15 times for all sorts of issues always done under warranty but once it was out of warranty we kept the car for 2 years and surprisingly only needed brakes, tyres and a service every 8,000miles.
Ran a couple of new mercs and they had issues as well.
Most 5-7 year old cars are still considered fairly new so some owners usually treat them well but some also think it's new and will last as long as they need it to without spending any money on it. Just look for a good service history and signs that the owner hasn't skimped on maintanance. Decent matching tyres and not covered in scratches is a good sign. As with any make and model you will find cars that are taken care of and you will find neglected examples... Just depends on how good you are at spotting a neglected and abused car.
jonah35 said:
997, rs4, m6, jag Xk, m5, e92 m3, 4x4s etc all under £20k.
Id go for an rs4 for £17k ish if thats your bag, get it checked over an dip the depreciation shouldn't be too bad.
Put a bid more aside for wear and tear.
Tis what I've done this last year - decided to run a c5 RS6 instead of an E90 330d M sport Id go for an rs4 for £17k ish if thats your bag, get it checked over an dip the depreciation shouldn't be too bad.
Put a bid more aside for wear and tear.
I loved the hassle free nature of the E90 but then moved to the icon and topic of this thread. So far if I changed the car today I'd have spent more PCM longer I keep it it will get down to a similar value. Its not too much more.
All these cars above are great and any PH would love to own one v a 316D 14plate
PAUL500 said:
No one looks twice at a range rover sport, or Cayenne
They certainly don't around here. SUVs are 10 a penny, so all of that monthly cost isn't even making any sort of statement, other than doing what a lot of other people are doing.I've thought about going for an older car a number of times. I currently have a MK4 Mondeo diesel as I used to do quite a few business miles, but with a different job, mostly cycle and motorbike commuting with only the odd business trip, I don't do a lot of mileage in it these days.
Having said that, it wouldn't make a lot of financial sense to sell it.
[quote=Muzzer79]Funny how these types of threads always lead to an avalanche of people posting about how their >x< year old >insert barge/sports car/other< has cost them buttons to run over the last >x< years and that everyone should do it rather than suffer the indignity of depreciation.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
quote
But this is where you are so wrong. It is the modern cars, with their fly by wire, & dreadful dead steering that are a pain. Some, with all those letters after their names, will do almost anything but what you want them to do. If I want ESP, I'll find a medium with extra sensory perception, not a bloody car.
I almost dread interstate visitors, as it means a couple of 160 kilometer round trips picking them up & returning them to the airport, driving what ever bit of modern white goods rubbish my lady currently has inflicted upon us.
The Fiesta was the worst by far, but a couple of the Mazdas were approaching being implements of torture as well. There is a perfectly good train from the airport to quite near home, if she would just stop buying these horrible things that accommodate so many people & their luggage, I could tell visitors to catch that.
Worn out back & knee problems do give me problems getting into my coupes at times. I bought an S2000, with its excellent hood mechanism to cater for that, it was the best modern convertible I could find. I put up with it's dreadfully dead, too light too quick steering, only because the rest of it is so good. At least it drives the right wheels, so doesn't want to spear off into the scenery, whenever it encounters a couple of inches of water on the road, unlike my ladies white goods things.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
quote
But this is where you are so wrong. It is the modern cars, with their fly by wire, & dreadful dead steering that are a pain. Some, with all those letters after their names, will do almost anything but what you want them to do. If I want ESP, I'll find a medium with extra sensory perception, not a bloody car.
I almost dread interstate visitors, as it means a couple of 160 kilometer round trips picking them up & returning them to the airport, driving what ever bit of modern white goods rubbish my lady currently has inflicted upon us.
The Fiesta was the worst by far, but a couple of the Mazdas were approaching being implements of torture as well. There is a perfectly good train from the airport to quite near home, if she would just stop buying these horrible things that accommodate so many people & their luggage, I could tell visitors to catch that.
Worn out back & knee problems do give me problems getting into my coupes at times. I bought an S2000, with its excellent hood mechanism to cater for that, it was the best modern convertible I could find. I put up with it's dreadfully dead, too light too quick steering, only because the rest of it is so good. At least it drives the right wheels, so doesn't want to spear off into the scenery, whenever it encounters a couple of inches of water on the road, unlike my ladies white goods things.
Edited by Hasbeen on Wednesday 20th August 05:36
Scuffers said:
Shaoxter said:
Sevo said:
The idea of running, for example, a 6 or 7 year old RS4 unnerves me. Warranties seem to be of debatable value and the thought of spending £30k on such a car and then getting a £5000 bill shortly after puts me off.
Same as spending £30k on a brand new car and taking a £5k depreciation hit as you drive it off the forecourt...Also for the used cars you're considering the repair bills are not going to be £5k unless the engine breaks or something.
had the (manual) box start to fail on our S5 and the bill for the replacement box was scary (warranty thank god).
it's the only real worry I have about running Quattro's out of warranty
I have a new car, but have run/still run older cars which were more interesting use of the money I had at the time and they have not cost me much - even though I am a fussy git and keep replacing things if I think its not performing like new. I have a new steering rack in the post of one of my cars, brand new, original OE packaging for £150. That's the first real problem I've had with that car in a few years. The last "real problem" was a cracked radiator which likewise cost a couple of hundred to put right. By contrast my new car costs me around £700 every month.
delays said:
I was literally discussing this topic with my dad yesterday. I grew up watching my parents buy new cars every 3 years, and therefore was conditioned into thinking that maintenance was an annual affair - throw it into the garage, pay £300 or so, have any major issues fixed under warranty and continue problem-free, 100% reliable motoring.
What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
+1What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
Sevo said:
Mr Taxpayer said:
When you do, there's plenty of very good 8-10 year old cars out there for £10k.
I've been thinking about this. I don't think there is a car out there that would fulfil my wants and needs for £10k actually.On paper the new Golf R is what I'm after. Circa 5s to 60, fun to drive, 4/5 doors, able to fit one of these in the back, reasonably safe and 4wd a bonus but if 2wd must not be a deathtrap in snow.
Is there a 10k car that does this?
If you are being honest with yourself and the car as a status symbol doesn't matter, why are you only considering German cars? I own (and get stick for, admittedly) owning an Impreza Wagon with an LPG kit. With your budget, I'd look for a Legacy Spec B, 3-litre flat-6. Top Gear TV's Car of the Year a few years back.
I have a spare set of wheels with winter tyres fitted for the Impreza and the wife's 2WD Panda. Whatever you car you buy, please, please get a set of winter boots for it. Read some of the reviews in Top Gear mag about their long-term MP4-12C and how transformed it was after fitting winter rubber.
Just a suggestion...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
No, I don't work for Subaru or a tyre company. I'm an Engineer that likes a fast drive and and apply engineering principles to my car selection choices, hence a total absence of badge-love.
Edited by Mr Taxpayer on Wednesday 20th August 09:13
Muzzer79 said:
Funny how these types of threads always lead to an avalanche of people posting about how their >x< year old >insert barge/sports car/other< has cost them buttons to run over the last >x< years and that everyone should do it rather than suffer the indignity of depreciation.
However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
Since this is an 'enthusiasts' forum there's probably a higher proportion of folk who 'caveat emptor'. The nails were bought by your mum and my dad.However, there must be (and are) loads of people who have bought a nail. Something that was cheap and supposedly reliable but was in fact a money pit.
Come on - you're out there somewhere. Let's not hide the potential lottery of older-car buying.
I would also say that you need to be handy with the spanners and/or willing to put up with certain idiosyncrasies on an older car. Read: bits not working or bits creaking/rattling.
Raman Kandola said:
delays said:
I was literally discussing this topic with my dad yesterday. I grew up watching my parents buy new cars every 3 years, and therefore was conditioned into thinking that maintenance was an annual affair - throw it into the garage, pay £300 or so, have any major issues fixed under warranty and continue problem-free, 100% reliable motoring.
What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
+1What was not visible, of course, was the crippling cost of depreciation.
Buying an older car, like the 15-year old Boxster I currently run, requires proactive maintenance. A good service every year, replacement of worn-out components, keeping an eye on fluid levels, key components, etc. There is an endemic cost in running a car, so whilst an older car depreciates less, it requires more in maintenance. This cost is usually much less than the depreciation cost on a new car, but can sometimes feel more since you're actively dipping into your wallet every now and then to pay for maintenance.
It's a psychological, perception thing.
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