US journalist beheaded by ISIS...
Discussion
smegmore said:
Bulls
t.
The only reason the Vietnam war ended early (?) was that the Americans with all their technology and firepower could never have hoped to defeat the general population of a country that regarded them as invaders, the majority of Viet Cong were from the south and aided and armed by North Vietnam/China.
The sole reason for the American involvement in Vietnam was to prop up a corrupt puppet government which was only marginally more palatable than the communist alternative, this was the cold war at its height.
I really think that the Americans -- and we're talking early Kennedy years, Bay of Pigs and all that -- thought it would be easy. t.The only reason the Vietnam war ended early (?) was that the Americans with all their technology and firepower could never have hoped to defeat the general population of a country that regarded them as invaders, the majority of Viet Cong were from the south and aided and armed by North Vietnam/China.
The sole reason for the American involvement in Vietnam was to prop up a corrupt puppet government which was only marginally more palatable than the communist alternative, this was the cold war at its height.
They had the weaponry, they simply believed they couldn't get the public to accept the number of body bags victory would entail. In a Democracy (well, a consenting oligarchy -- that's not unimportant).
There is never, I think, a simple, single, reason for engaging in a war, nor such a reason for a defeat or withdrawal.
I really doubt that anyone not alive at the time can fully appreciate just how galvanising the reportage from Vietnam -- the first real TV war -- was.
A Google for "vietnam war effects of journalism on" throws up some interesting stuff.
Still, if you think that reportage played no role, you've really got to find a reason for the West's insistence on embedding during later conflicts.
TheRealFingers99 said:
smegmore said:
Bullst.
The only reason the Vietnam war ended early (?) was that the Americans with all their technology and firepower could never have hoped to defeat the general population of a country that regarded them as invaders, the majority of Viet Cong were from the south and aided and armed by North Vietnam/China.
The sole reason for the American involvement in Vietnam was to prop up a corrupt puppet government which was only marginally more palatable than the communist alternative, this was the cold war at its height.
I really think that the Americans -- and we're talking early Kennedy years, Bay of Pigs and all that -- thought it would be easy. t.The only reason the Vietnam war ended early (?) was that the Americans with all their technology and firepower could never have hoped to defeat the general population of a country that regarded them as invaders, the majority of Viet Cong were from the south and aided and armed by North Vietnam/China.
The sole reason for the American involvement in Vietnam was to prop up a corrupt puppet government which was only marginally more palatable than the communist alternative, this was the cold war at its height.
They had the weaponry, they simply believed they couldn't get the public to accept the number of body bags victory would entail. In a Democracy (well, a consenting oligarchy -- that's not unimportant).
There is never, I think, a simple, single, reason for engaging in a war, nor such a reason for a defeat or withdrawal.
I really doubt that anyone not alive at the time can fully appreciate just how galvanising the reportage from Vietnam -- the first real TV war -- was.
A Google for "vietnam war effects of journalism on" throws up some interesting stuff.
Still, if you think that reportage played no role, you've really got to find a reason for the West's insistence on embedding during later conflicts.
Don't forget this was an insular (as in village life) agrarian economy which was easily mobilised by the guerrilla forces to resist the round eye invaders who were supporting the totally corrupt Saigon regime.
I accept that this was the first live TV war that turned many Americans away from the concept of 'better dead than red' due to the live pics on the teatime news of US soldiers being killed and terribly injured but the political realities remain.
This was a war which was engineered by the US in order to prevent the so-called spread of communism throughout Asia, for better or worse.
Forget the communist political angle but does that ring any bells in more recent history?
Think about it.
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Stable doors.Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Horse.
Jimbeaux said:
We need to worry less about bombing there and focus on the mad dogs festering this crap under our noses in the UK and US.
Yes indeed.But, until we have poiticians who are more focused on the safety and wellbeing of our citizens rather than their own ratings popularity then we are on a loser.
There is too much emphasis on causing offence to the minorities witin our society which is clouding the real issues of the dangers in our midst.
smegmore said:
Yes indeed.
But, until we have poiticians who are more focused on the safety and wellbeing of our citizens rather than their own ratings popularity then we are on a loser.
There is too much emphasis on causing offence to the minorities witin our society which is clouding the real issues of the dangers in our midst.
The politicians are giving the reach around to the institutions that are developing weapons tech, and they in turn, are giving the reach around to the arms dealers / defence companies. There's nothing like a good conflict / war, to line the pockets of the pigs round the trough.But, until we have poiticians who are more focused on the safety and wellbeing of our citizens rather than their own ratings popularity then we are on a loser.
There is too much emphasis on causing offence to the minorities witin our society which is clouding the real issues of the dangers in our midst.
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Really Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
? This if anything is a bonus to the decommissioning process for the Tonka force of the UK. Some of the more hazardous stuff can be dropped in Iraq instead of decommissioned over here saving the tax payer a hefty sum and anything that cant be dropped by the Eurofighter you can be damn sure will be dropped out there rather than stored and dismantled over here at great cost. Furthermore, Tonkas are built for this. High speed air to ground bombing is what they have been doing for over 20 years! Think we're using paveways and are definitely not cruise missiles. TinyCappo said:
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Really Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
? This if anything is a bonus to the decommissioning process for the Tonka force of the UK. Some of the more hazardous stuff can be dropped in Iraq instead of decommissioned over here saving the tax payer a hefty sum and anything that cant be dropped by the Eurofighter you can be damn sure will be dropped out there rather than stored and dismantled over here at great cost. Furthermore, Tonkas are built for this. High speed air to ground bombing is what they have been doing for over 20 years! Think we're using paveways and are definitely not cruise missiles. Maybe coincidence, or maybe we'll see the Navy lobbing a few missiles to show how much we support the US.
Mr_B said:
TinyCappo said:
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Really Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
? This if anything is a bonus to the decommissioning process for the Tonka force of the UK. Some of the more hazardous stuff can be dropped in Iraq instead of decommissioned over here saving the tax payer a hefty sum and anything that cant be dropped by the Eurofighter you can be damn sure will be dropped out there rather than stored and dismantled over here at great cost. Furthermore, Tonkas are built for this. High speed air to ground bombing is what they have been doing for over 20 years! Think we're using paveways and are definitely not cruise missiles. Maybe coincidence, or maybe we'll see the Navy lobbing a few missiles to show how much we support the US.
TinyCappo said:
Mr_B said:
TinyCappo said:
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Really Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
? This if anything is a bonus to the decommissioning process for the Tonka force of the UK. Some of the more hazardous stuff can be dropped in Iraq instead of decommissioned over here saving the tax payer a hefty sum and anything that cant be dropped by the Eurofighter you can be damn sure will be dropped out there rather than stored and dismantled over here at great cost. Furthermore, Tonkas are built for this. High speed air to ground bombing is what they have been doing for over 20 years! Think we're using paveways and are definitely not cruise missiles. Maybe coincidence, or maybe we'll see the Navy lobbing a few missiles to show how much we support the US.
Strange coincidence we buy 20 the week we go to war. Then again, lets see if the Navy doesn't make some use of them.
The US managed to fire quite a few the other day. Would suggest the fixed targets are ( or were) there to use, not that I heard anything about not using them. When did Parliament list details about whats in and whats out weapons wise ?
TheRealFingers99 said:
They had the weaponry, they simply believed they couldn't get the public to accept the number of body bags victory would entail. In a Democracy (well, a consenting oligarchy -- that's not unimportant).
US deaths numbered approx 55,000 total, in Vietnam. Compared to the 27,000 DAILY average in WW2, it is a mere drop in the ocean, just two days worth of casualties......The difference was that in Vietnam, for the first time ever, the great unwashed could see, hear and feel the agony via the medium of television, courtesy of news reporters. That was how Vietnam differed from all previous conflicts.
King Herald said:
US deaths numbered approx 55,000 total, in Vietnam. Compared to the 27,000 DAILY average in WW2, it is a mere drop in the ocean, just two days worth of casualties......
The difference was that in Vietnam, for the first time ever, the great unwashed could see, hear and feel the agony via the medium of television, courtesy of news reporters. That was how Vietnam differed from all previous conflicts.
I'm sure the USA would have surrendered or negotiated peace with Hitler if they has video journalists... The difference was that in Vietnam, for the first time ever, the great unwashed could see, hear and feel the agony via the medium of television, courtesy of news reporters. That was how Vietnam differed from all previous conflicts.
Mr_B said:
Launched 2 of 6 jets. Both came back without finding any targets. Maybe sums up the fact the killing a bunch of nutters on the back of a Toyota pick-up ain't going to be nothing like the Gulf war.
Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
Wrong, best case scenario is they meet their maker where they believe 72 virgins will be waiting.Some how though this is making the streets of the UK safer...by encouraging more Muslims to pretend they are leaving Birmingham for a cheap sun and no sex holiday in Turkey, only to sneak over the border into Syria.
How about maybe dealing with the estimated 200 odd that have already supposedly returned from fighting, rather that buying million pound cruise missiles to lob at Iraq.
What nobody told them is that they're virgin goats.
I remember the Vietnam war one of these wars which was never going to be won by the Yanks.
That is why the French got out,it kept the military complex going like it always does.War is money and there is plenty to be made,never mind the casualties.
Now we have a ever lasting war against terrorism some of our towns are full of moslims who problaby hate our guts.Nice future to look forward to.
That is why the French got out,it kept the military complex going like it always does.War is money and there is plenty to be made,never mind the casualties.
Now we have a ever lasting war against terrorism some of our towns are full of moslims who problaby hate our guts.Nice future to look forward to.
King Herald said:
US deaths numbered approx 55,000 total, in Vietnam. Compared to the 27,000 DAILY average in WW2, it is a mere drop in the ocean, just two days worth of casualties......
The difference was that in Vietnam, for the first time ever, the great unwashed could see, hear and feel the agony via the medium of television, courtesy of news reporters. That was how Vietnam differed from all previous conflicts.
+1The difference was that in Vietnam, for the first time ever, the great unwashed could see, hear and feel the agony via the medium of television, courtesy of news reporters. That was how Vietnam differed from all previous conflicts.
Go check youtube for footage from iraq, afghan and the other theatres such as mali and you will see up close and personal the wars fought.
Go deeper into the internets and you'll find the horror in syria and what not very very fast, if anyone thinks the people who are joining ISIS think it's all like COD are a bit naive.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff