1 DAY LPG CONVERSIONS eg LEEDS LPG/ SAVE-CAR LPG
Discussion
giblet said:
Surely it depends on the installer and his competency? I'm planning to finally get my current cat converted to LPG as I've spent over £1300 in V Power in just over 6 months and only covered just over 4600 miles.
I'm planning to use a fellow member from the owners club who has experience of converting cars with the same engine as well as other cars. Quote is reasonable and his own car is running with the same level of performance on both LPG and V Power.
What does your cat run on at the moment? Whiskers Ultimate?I'm planning to use a fellow member from the owners club who has experience of converting cars with the same engine as well as other cars. Quote is reasonable and his own car is running with the same level of performance on both LPG and V Power.
ArmaghMan said:
Man alive there is some misinformation in this thread.
Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
Hi. It was myself who questioned the original post claiming a drop in 15-20mpg ! I have had 4 conversion s done in total - from top of the range Prins to a cheaper Landi Renzo . Guess what - the Prins system bought in 2012 has given me heaps of problems ( funnily enough only on the continent - different gas quality?) whilst the 10 year old Landi Renzo has given me no probs at all. It depens on the installer - no doubt. Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
Re your question as to why do it. Quite simply the car has only done 4500 miles and it gives me approx 45mpg.
I will be keeping this car for a good few years and it will be doing a good number of miles. Makes sense to me to have it done - all being well I will recoup in 15000 miles max.
austinsmirk said:
I'd rather chew my arm off than drive a Hyundi to turkey. surely on that sort of distance its doing 60mpg from its 1200 cc engine to begin with.
Why not fly and hire a car for buttons like any normal person.
Each to their own - no problem for me. Why the problem doing 60mph?As regards your other question I hate flying and I stay over there for 8- 10 weeks at a time. Why not fly and hire a car for buttons like any normal person.
I used Leeds LPG to convert my LS400 last Feb. Got there at 8am on a Sunday, bunch of Polish blokes arrived and started work, all finished by 6pm. Paid £1200.
All I can say is that it has been an entirely trouble-free conversion and 33000 miles later I've saved a packet. Seemed to know what they were doing. Only problem is that as I'm 100 miles from Leeds I've not been back to have it serviced yet - must get round to it soon.
Re LPG generally - a good thing for keeping an old barge going. No impact on performance or reliability. Loses 5mpg or so but effectively it runs at 40+mpg. Only downside is short range (get a big tank) of 260 miles and how long it takes to fill up, also availability of the gas in more rural parts.
All I can say is that it has been an entirely trouble-free conversion and 33000 miles later I've saved a packet. Seemed to know what they were doing. Only problem is that as I'm 100 miles from Leeds I've not been back to have it serviced yet - must get round to it soon.
Re LPG generally - a good thing for keeping an old barge going. No impact on performance or reliability. Loses 5mpg or so but effectively it runs at 40+mpg. Only downside is short range (get a big tank) of 260 miles and how long it takes to fill up, also availability of the gas in more rural parts.
Leemcd said:
Gotta say seems pointless on such a small engine, also drive toTurkey in a 1.0 corsa!?!? That sounds like a punishment!
I do average 65mph on the way over and I am taking a real chance doing that in some countries. 1.0 litre - what''s your problem. You want to harden up ! 1 litre or 3 litre - no difference to me other than the huge price differential. Yes it lacks a bit of comfort but hey ho it gets me there - every time . The lack of comfort is more than compensated by the huge price differentials. Why pay £20k upwards for a car - waste of money says I. Funnily enough the LPG conversion will be costing me a few hundred pounds less than what I paid for the car itself. That being said I rather like the car and having it converted will only ensure that I keep it for a fair while. Given that I tend to chop and changed every 6-12 months it makes sense to stick with something. Should still have enough poke even on LPG to keep me happy.
Edit - cheapest I have paid for v power is 138.9p, the two LPG filling stations close to me have LPG at 65p and 65p respectively. Even if I was to go from ~19 MPG on V power to ~17 MPG on LPG it would still save me plenty of cash.
Edit - cheapest I have paid for v power is 138.9p, the two LPG filling stations close to me have LPG at 65p and 65p respectively. Even if I was to go from ~19 MPG on V power to ~17 MPG on LPG it would still save me plenty of cash.
Edited by giblet on Thursday 21st August 21:21
I love LPG. I converted & setup my car myself. If you have a really 'normal' car which the installer has converted many times it may be ok getting it done at a '1 day conversion' place as they will know exactly what to do and could just crack on.
If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
DaveCWK said:
I love LPG. I converted & setup my car myself. If you have a really 'normal' car which the installer has converted many times it may be ok getting it done at a '1 day conversion' place as they will know exactly what to do and could just crack on.
If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
Very constructive reply Dave. Thanks. I have a Prins on my other car and I think they are overrated - other than the injectors of course. One of the guys that quoted me uses the STAG 300 ISA2 control unit. Other than the Hanna and Keihlin injectors - any others any good? And what reducer would you recommend.If it is anything unusual/something that would require a bit of problem solving I wouldn't risk it. I'd estimate it took me around 40-50hours to install my system in its entirety.
RE parts quality, some of the polish stuff is very good, some is a bit mickey mouse. For example the Polish controller systems (STAG/LPGTech) are far better than a prins/AEB system. Smaller more modern form factor, easier to set up, more advanced controlling algorithms, far more stable, actually still being developed/updated by the manufacturer...
Hana injectors are as reliable and accurate as Prins; a set for a 4 cylinder car with an aluminium gas manifold are around £100, in comparison to an average cheap plastic set at £35.
Even basic things like the T pieces used for the coolant circuit to the evaporator; spend an extra £3 and get aluminium ones + decent hose clamps and they will never fail.
Tell the instller you are willing to spend an extra £100 on higher quality bits and you will be sorted.
Most don't do this, and just want the absolute cheapest conversion possible (after all, LPG is all about saving money right?), and then wonder why bits start failing after 9 months.
Have you had your converted yet? Collected mine earlier this week. The installer used a LPGTECH system, running fine on LPG without any performance issues. It's had a basic map but will be getting tweaked further soon, had an issue with a blowing downpipe caused by a different mechanic which was messing up the AFR'S.
Taking it on a proper run tomorrow to Silverstone, looking forward to seeing what sort of economy I get on the current setup.
Taking it on a proper run tomorrow to Silverstone, looking forward to seeing what sort of economy I get on the current setup.
ArmaghMan said:
Man alive there is some misinformation in this thread.
Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
There is definitely some info on LPG conversions on this thread, some accurate, some inaccurate....Firstly the drop is 10-15 % in mpg at worst. Drop in power roughly the same.
My question though is why convert something that's already doing good mpg.
I converted an E 39 M5 when I was using it as a daily, and then took the kit out and put it into my E39 528i when I decided to keep the M for sunny day use only.
For sure you will see a drop in oomph, which doesn't really matter with 400 bhp or 190 bhp but I wouldn't want to be driving a small engine with even less power.
As you have already had LPG conversions done you are a convert. All I can add is that the service you have gotten from your previous installers can't have been great. My 2 conversions were both done by the same guys, not cheap, but the job was done right. Never crossed my mind to go anywhere else.
I would say the reason to convert something that's already doing good mpg is the same as for converting something that isn't doing good mpg... If you can run a 1.2 Corsa for half it's current running costs, i.e. get the equivalent of 120mpg then that's got to be better than getting 60mpg.. Consider that some people could say your BMW528 does good mpg and that they might ask you the same question... You could point out that your BMW528 now costs the equivalent to run as an unconverted 1.2 Corsa. Someone who has converted the 1.2 Corsa could point out their car costs the equivalent to run as a pedal and pop moped, and so on. Even the Corsa on petrol doing 60mpg will use 300 gallons of fuel in 18000 miles, 300 gallons of petrol will cost £1774 in fuel. An LPG conversion on the Corsa might cost £900 and even on this vehicle will pay for itself in just over a year. Yes of course the payback is sooner and more pronounced with less economical vehicles, but for those that want the ultimate in economy a small car running on LPG is the best bet..
I am a full time pro LPG system installer, I have developed a bit of a niche for converting the 'difficult to convert' vehicles that other installers rather avoid but I still convert run of the mill cars - and I did convert my sons 12 year old 1.2 Corsa to run on LPG! As a student only working part time hours this makes the difference between him being able to afford to run a car, and to go wherever he wants in it without needing to worry about fuel costs, and maybe not being able to afford run a car at all.
Simon
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Wednesday 17th September 19:27
ETA
Sorry not allowed as it's deemed as advertising.
Edited by Big Al. on Saturday 20th September 12:29
SimonYorkshire said:
Simon
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Wednesday 17th September 19:27
I bought it 4 or 5 years ago, already converted, and it has been probably the best car i've ever bought!
I use it for towing my car trailer 90% of the time and I get 160-180 miles to £40 worth of LPG, whereas £40 worth of petrol will be lucky to do 60 -70 miles!
Anyway, back to my question.
What do you actually do to service an LPG kit/converted car?
I've done about 30,000 miles in it, and to be honest, i've never touched the system, apart from a very slight leak when I first bought it.
TheAngryDog said:
Do they remove the inlet manifold before drilling and tapping it? Not sure I'd want bits of swarf floating around the engine..
A competent installer will remove the manifold, mine did! Managed 19.15 MPG on the Silverstone run but I wasn't exactly driving with economy in mind. 18.09 MPG on the last tank which was mostly urban miles. Slightly less than figures on petrol but the LPG ecu map still needs tweaking, will make a trip to see the installer at some point soon. No discernible difference in power output thankfully.
Price per mile has pretty much halved and so has my fuel spend per month. Using the first 6 month of ownership with V Power as a guide of fuel spends I should make my money back on the LPG install cost in under a year.
giblet said:
A competent installer will remove the manifold, mine did!
Managed 19.15 MPG on the Silverstone run but I wasn't exactly driving with economy in mind. 18.09 MPG on the last tank which was mostly urban miles. Slightly less than figures on petrol but the LPG ecu map still needs tweaking, will make a trip to see the installer at some point soon. No discernible difference in power output thankfully.
Price per mile has pretty much halved and so has my fuel spend per month. Using the first 6 month of ownership with V Power as a guide of fuel spends I should make my money back on the LPG install cost in under a year.
How long did the installation take?Managed 19.15 MPG on the Silverstone run but I wasn't exactly driving with economy in mind. 18.09 MPG on the last tank which was mostly urban miles. Slightly less than figures on petrol but the LPG ecu map still needs tweaking, will make a trip to see the installer at some point soon. No discernible difference in power output thankfully.
Price per mile has pretty much halved and so has my fuel spend per month. Using the first 6 month of ownership with V Power as a guide of fuel spends I should make my money back on the LPG install cost in under a year.
giblet said:
Three days, left the car with the installer for a week so he could fit some other bits at the same time.
That to me sounds like a proper job was done. In the interests of time, and also when I enquired with the company in the OP, they didn't remove the inlet manifold to drill and tap. Maybe they have changed since, but it would be one of the first things I'd ask.I recall asking Simon for a quote when I was looking at getting a 540 bmw. His price was very very good and said that I wouldn't get the car back until it was 100%. Couldn't fault that. I didn't end up getting a 540, I moved closer to work instead.
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