impreza p1 front brakes upgrade
Discussion
Yeah, AP do a proper kit which uses 330mm rotors and AP CP5200 4 pot calipers. I have a similar kit by GGR fitted to my newage and it's stonkingly good, and also fits under standard 17" wheels. I'd have been happier still if it fitted under 16" wheels so I could still use proper winter tyres but them's the breaks. On the P1 you could improve the rear brakes too with newage WRX (easy) or STI calipers (harder).
You can get cheaper kits using the same AP calipers with custom bells and standard 10 bolt 28mm rotors from the likes of Reyland, GGR and Godspeed if you want to save some money. These basically use a cheaper/heavier rotor and brackets/bells made by the retailer. Nothing wrong at all with these as the AP rotors aren't the best out there (not bad, just not as good as can be had for equivalent money - i.e. PFC).
I wouldn't bother with the likes of the D2 etc, just stick with proven quality like AP which you'll still be able to get parts for in ten years time! It might also be worth investigating Alcon (who made the original P1 upgrade kit through Prodrive) which also uses 330mm rotors but their own calipers. They were doing some great deals recently and may well still have them on offer.
You can get cheaper kits using the same AP calipers with custom bells and standard 10 bolt 28mm rotors from the likes of Reyland, GGR and Godspeed if you want to save some money. These basically use a cheaper/heavier rotor and brackets/bells made by the retailer. Nothing wrong at all with these as the AP rotors aren't the best out there (not bad, just not as good as can be had for equivalent money - i.e. PFC).
I wouldn't bother with the likes of the D2 etc, just stick with proven quality like AP which you'll still be able to get parts for in ten years time! It might also be worth investigating Alcon (who made the original P1 upgrade kit through Prodrive) which also uses 330mm rotors but their own calipers. They were doing some great deals recently and may well still have them on offer.
No commercial connection with any of this - just a 14 year P1 owner who learnt the hard way and is passing on accumulated experience 
...
The original Alcon "Prodrive" calipers with 330mm X 28mm one piece rotors which fit under 17" wheels still come up occasionally on ebay or enthusiast's websites (e.g. there is a set for sale on Type RA.co. uk now) but be aware that there are two types - the earlier silver one with thinner font for Prodrive and a clunkier looking caliper:
, and the the "type B" ones with a milky grey caliper finish and thicker Prodrive font.
The calipers usually go for around £400 in unrestored nick, but can be fully rebuilt/ re painted / restored for around another 400-500 by the various brake refurb specialists.
Once restored the calipers are as good as the equivalent AP calipers IMHO (but have the benefit of the Prodrive /oem connection), but the single piece oem rotors that came with them are not. They die once they get over 550C and wont take any sort of a pasting on a decent track day - I went through about 5 sets....
There are good solutions to this however, and the best I have found comes through ASPerformance.com who can supply a two piece solution with a hard anodised bell to which you can fit a range of different rotors including AP and Performance Friction. The full two piece set up comes to around £600- 700 or so depending on the rotor used (Performance friction most expensive , AP cheaper, etc), but then when you replace the rotors in future they are around £200 going forward as the bell is retained. The gaffer of AS performance is called Alyn and he is very approachable/happy to chat on the phone. He also knows all there is to know about brake pads etc and can supply everything you need at really good prices.(NB I heard that he is off on hols from this weekend for a week or two).
So if the Prodrive /Alcon connection is important for you (it was for me) you can put together a set up that is effectively brand new and works at least as well as the equivalent brand new AP set up for a few hundred quid less.
They also look pretty good...
[/QUOTE]
My unrestored set with two pieces on (My bell predates Alyn's kit, but those are his PF rotors and Pagid RS 42 pads). I'm about to get these restored/repainted to match my renovated/repainted rear calipers (at the bottom).
...The original Alcon "Prodrive" calipers with 330mm X 28mm one piece rotors which fit under 17" wheels still come up occasionally on ebay or enthusiast's websites (e.g. there is a set for sale on Type RA.co. uk now) but be aware that there are two types - the earlier silver one with thinner font for Prodrive and a clunkier looking caliper:
, and the the "type B" ones with a milky grey caliper finish and thicker Prodrive font.
The calipers usually go for around £400 in unrestored nick, but can be fully rebuilt/ re painted / restored for around another 400-500 by the various brake refurb specialists.
Once restored the calipers are as good as the equivalent AP calipers IMHO (but have the benefit of the Prodrive /oem connection), but the single piece oem rotors that came with them are not. They die once they get over 550C and wont take any sort of a pasting on a decent track day - I went through about 5 sets....
There are good solutions to this however, and the best I have found comes through ASPerformance.com who can supply a two piece solution with a hard anodised bell to which you can fit a range of different rotors including AP and Performance Friction. The full two piece set up comes to around £600- 700 or so depending on the rotor used (Performance friction most expensive , AP cheaper, etc), but then when you replace the rotors in future they are around £200 going forward as the bell is retained. The gaffer of AS performance is called Alyn and he is very approachable/happy to chat on the phone. He also knows all there is to know about brake pads etc and can supply everything you need at really good prices.(NB I heard that he is off on hols from this weekend for a week or two).
So if the Prodrive /Alcon connection is important for you (it was for me) you can put together a set up that is effectively brand new and works at least as well as the equivalent brand new AP set up for a few hundred quid less.
They also look pretty good...
[/QUOTE]My unrestored set with two pieces on (My bell predates Alyn's kit, but those are his PF rotors and Pagid RS 42 pads). I'm about to get these restored/repainted to match my renovated/repainted rear calipers (at the bottom).
Edited by FBP1 on Friday 22 August 12:48
FBP1 said:
There are good solutions to this however, and the best I have found comes through ASPerformance.com who can supply a two piece solution with a hard anodised bell to which you can fit a range of different rotors including AP and Performance Friction. The full two piece set up comes to around £600- 700 or so depending on the rotor used (Performance friction most expensive , AP cheaper, etc), but then when you replace the rotors in future they are around £200 going forward as the bell is retained. The gaffer of AS performance is called Alyn and he is very approachable/happy to chat on the phone. He also knows all there is to know about brake pads etc and can supply everything you need at really good prices.(NB I heard that he is off on hols from this weekend for a week or two).
Don't be fooled by talk of replacement discs, you're looking at £260 for the cheapest replacement rotors from Reyland, up to c£500 for AP/PFC. I need to replace mine and given they're not used on track will be going for the Reyland own spec ones which can be produced with a slightly thicker braking surface for a marginally longer life. Anything considered as a big brake kit is not going to be cheap, albeit both the AP and Alcon calipers will give you access to cheaper pads than the standard WRX 4 pots you're currently using, not to mention in a far wider spread of materials. As a comparison the discs for the STI newage Brembo's can be had for £110 a pair (yes, single piece I know but arguably cheaper to produce because of this)!Edited by FBP1 on Friday 22 August 12:48
Edited to add that I reckon with BBK's you're just as well buying new as a set of replacement rotors will be c£500, pads c£150+ and a decent refurb (on AP's) is £200 alone in just parts before you even get into the possibility of repainting. Given that the CP5200 kits can be had for c£1400 and can be sold irrespective of condition for at least £700 (most are £850+) and you'll get your money back quite easily should you choose to sell them in the future. The advantage this way is that you get them new, box fresh and with a warranty!
Edited by Ennoch on Friday 22 August 13:28
"Don't be fooled". A pretty dismissive way of treating some otherwise useful information should someone want Alcons - as the OP intimated that he might. Maybe he will want to go on track at some point- if so Reyland (which are poor quality by the way)would not be much cop.
Demon Tweeks): New AP Racing 5020 Brake kits - £2001 excl VAT/ £2400 with VAT
Alcons second hand £450,refurb £450,pads circa £140, PFC rotors and bells £625 (INC) all in £1665.
Going forward- AP and PFC replacement rotors are within 50-100 quid of each other
Finally, newage Brembo calipers don't fit under 17's...
Demon Tweeks): New AP Racing 5020 Brake kits - £2001 excl VAT/ £2400 with VAT
Alcons second hand £450,refurb £450,pads circa £140, PFC rotors and bells £625 (INC) all in £1665.
Going forward- AP and PFC replacement rotors are within 50-100 quid of each other
Finally, newage Brembo calipers don't fit under 17's...
Sorry, I didn't intend to sound dismissive. It's just a very regular phrase that's trotted out with 2 - piece discs. Yes, buying just the rotors is cheaper than buying the bells and rotors but is still a more expensive solution than one piece. I've also experienced Reyland rotors on my own cars in the past and those of others and have zero complaints. A lot of people are very dismissive of cheap discs, especially when they want to flaunt their wealth around but I just don't see the differential between the performance of the two products to justify the difference in price for road use. Even average track use leaves me wondering if they're really worth it. If you have the roads and car to get 330mm glowing orange or yellow then clearly you're using the brakes more than average and would benefit from the best available; ie PFC.
I had no intention of being dismissive but there is just that issue with many recommended BBK's, where people think two kits are the same, and they're just not. The cheaper disc argument is also a regular one and again, relative to a BBK made from OEM parts is a bit of a fallacy, unfortunately.
I had no intention of being dismissive but there is just that issue with many recommended BBK's, where people think two kits are the same, and they're just not. The cheaper disc argument is also a regular one and again, relative to a BBK made from OEM parts is a bit of a fallacy, unfortunately.
Just in case anyone else is looking I have a refurbished set of brembo Sti 4 pots in pink and discs for a rather reasonable £400, also a new set of cl5+ pads for £110 which would make a decent improvement. Probably not what the op is looking for but worth throwing out there. I had a k sport 8 pot 330 kit on a newage that worked well on a heavier car but a classic on brembo s with the right pads works well imho.
The brakes on this car should fit if they're the 330mm kit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-impreza-bugeye-Br...
The 6 pots on this will fit (asking £1k): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Impreza-V3-4-High...
Not sure about the rotors on these and the calipers are the older style but they're essentially the same spec as the later ones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AP-CP5200-Calipers-330mm...
These look like they could be a great buy: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AP-Racing-330mm-6pot-cal...
Basically the 4 and 6 pot 330mm brakes will fit and all newage/classic kits will fit as the brackets are the same.
The 6 pots on this will fit (asking £1k): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Impreza-V3-4-High...
Not sure about the rotors on these and the calipers are the older style but they're essentially the same spec as the later ones: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AP-CP5200-Calipers-330mm...
These look like they could be a great buy: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AP-Racing-330mm-6pot-cal...
Basically the 4 and 6 pot 330mm brakes will fit and all newage/classic kits will fit as the brackets are the same.
Enoch, this isn't a pissing contest nor is it some ostentatious display of wealth, as you seem to imply. I did kill a set of one piece Alcon rotors from the Prodrive set up on my P1 on the road and did several sets, as mentioned previously, on the track. If the OP isn't bothered about the Prodrive connection or other decent brake set ups for enthusiastic driving then fine - settle for something barely adequate. However, he indicated otherwise.
After speaking to a to be unnamed Alcon employee on the trade day at the Autosport show back at the time, he grimly admitted that they had frankly underestimated the ability of owners of the p1s with their kit to generate sufficient brake temperature to damage the rotors beyond the usual pad deposition vibration stage, with the unsaid implication that this had been an expensive issue in warranty terms. He did say that it was also probably a mistake to offer DS 3000 pads as an upgrade as well as their coefficient of friction was so high ( great pads for the track by the way) that this only exacerbated the problem.
He said the one piece rotor kit was judged to be fine up to 550 c but not over but they thought no one would ever get their brakes that hot on the road/ gentleman's track days.
My P1 was running circa 330 bhp when the "road rotor" expired - it cracked right through- but it now runs 560BHP so decent brakes are a must... and that means two piece with good rotors/ pads
New age front Brembos do not fit under the original standard 17" P1-WRC OZ wheels of the correct offset without spacers - there is insufficient caliper clearance.
To the OP - good luck with your hunt. You can't say that you haven't been given some info...
After speaking to a to be unnamed Alcon employee on the trade day at the Autosport show back at the time, he grimly admitted that they had frankly underestimated the ability of owners of the p1s with their kit to generate sufficient brake temperature to damage the rotors beyond the usual pad deposition vibration stage, with the unsaid implication that this had been an expensive issue in warranty terms. He did say that it was also probably a mistake to offer DS 3000 pads as an upgrade as well as their coefficient of friction was so high ( great pads for the track by the way) that this only exacerbated the problem.
He said the one piece rotor kit was judged to be fine up to 550 c but not over but they thought no one would ever get their brakes that hot on the road/ gentleman's track days.
My P1 was running circa 330 bhp when the "road rotor" expired - it cracked right through- but it now runs 560BHP so decent brakes are a must... and that means two piece with good rotors/ pads
New age front Brembos do not fit under the original standard 17" P1-WRC OZ wheels of the correct offset without spacers - there is insufficient caliper clearance.
To the OP - good luck with your hunt. You can't say that you haven't been given some info...
Edited by FBP1 on Wednesday 27th August 16:02
It appears you can still get the Prodrive Alcon brake kit new for £1200, of course it could just be they haven't updated their web site.
http://subaru-impreza.sgpetch.co.uk/pages/accessor...
http://subaru-impreza.sgpetch.co.uk/pages/accessor...
Have you considered the Godspeed 335mm big brake kit as a cost effective alternative? http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/~godspeed/product....
Ap 6 pots on my old P1, can't remember the disc, think they were Australian with DS2500 pads and braided hoses. Awesome stopping power time after time after time.
I remember lots of angry Godspeed customers back in the day, I'm sure (hope) his customer service skills have improved over the years (I know his kits and discs were very good back then for the money)
I remember lots of angry Godspeed customers back in the day, I'm sure (hope) his customer service skills have improved over the years (I know his kits and discs were very good back then for the money)
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