Sub-£2k diesel saloon...

[Krikkit]

...with a decent amount of power and a good ride quality.

My default answer when asked about a comfy, decently-powered diesel for cheap is usually a Volvo S60/V70 D5, but are there other options to consider? I'm not really a fan of the ubiquitous A4/Bora/Passat grouping, mostly because I don't really like the seats or styling.

I've also been looking at the late-model 156 2.4JTDM's, or even the 1.9 sport models (reliability concerns me there, is it an issue like the GM 1.9 is on Saabs?

Speaking of which, I've also been looking at the last-generation Saab 9-3 with both the 1.9 (which I'm told has quite a few problems) or the 2.2 which is a much older design.

Thoughts? The Alfa takes the looks and interior stakes imo, I know the Ovlov will be the most comfortable of the 3 with its fantastic seats and stereo, heated seats etc. The Saab is somewhere in the middle.

Use is 70 miles/day of an A-road commute, so comfort and having a decent engine to help overtaking are both important. If speed wasn't necessary I'd be straight in buying a Peugeot 406 or something Citroen.

[nipsips]

Krikkit said:

...with a decent amount of power and a good ride quality.

My default answer when asked about a comfy, decently-powered diesel for cheap is usually a Volvo S60/V70 D5, but are there other options to consider? I'm not really a fan of the ubiquitous A4/Bora/Passat grouping, mostly because I don't really like the seats or styling.

I've also been looking at the late-model 156 2.4JTDM's, or even the 1.9 sport models (reliability concerns me there, is it an issue like the GM 1.9 is on Saabs?

Speaking of which, I've also been looking at the last-generation Saab 9-3 with both the 1.9 (which I'm told has quite a few problems) or the 2.2 which is a much older design.

Thoughts? The Alfa takes the looks and interior stakes imo, I know the Ovlov will be the most comfortable of the 3 with its fantastic seats and stereo, heated seats etc. The Saab is somewhere in the middle.

Use is 70 miles/day of an A-road commute, so comfort and having a decent engine to help overtaking are both important. If speed wasn't necessary I'd be straight in buying a Peugeot 406 or something Citroen.

At this budget I'd tread carefully. The 1.9 in the Saab, Alfa and Vauxhall Vectra are all the same. All suffer with the same quirks.

All of them are likely to throw an expensive fault at some point. My money would be going on something 2.0 petrol which will still do 45-48mpg on a run and have less worry.

[Krikkit]

nipsips said:

At this budget I'd tread carefully. The 1.9 in the Saab, Alfa and Vauxhall Vectra are all the same. All suffer with the same quirks.

All of them are likely to throw an expensive fault at some point. My money would be going on something 2.0 petrol which will still do 45-48mpg on a run and have less worry.

I thought as much! That sounds distinctly like an engine to avoid. To be honest I'd be very surprised if I could eke out that kind of economy from the petrol engines, at the moment I get a smidge over the combined mpg figures for the cars I've tried on the commute, and looking at the petrol equivalents of each model they're mid-30s combined at best.

[webby23]

X Type?

We have a 2008 2.0d Sport and it's a lovely car.

Ours cost £8k from a main dealer but plenty about at less than £2000

Averages about 48-50mpg, 60+mpg on a run, with decent grunt (Bluefin) and quietened down by the upgraded tensioner kit

Done 30,000 miles in the 2 years we have had ours and apart from routine servicing it's not cost a penny in repairs

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:11

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:12

[donaircooleone]

The Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTDm (20v) is a fantastic thing, however it is reliable if you are prepared to maintain it.

I bought mine at the point where things need to be replaced and the key things with these is the cambelt (water pump as well) and drive shafts.

Expect 40-45MPG with spirited driving (more if sensible or motorway use).

Common things:

Water pump / cambelt need to be replaced regularly - turns out mine has had a belt go in its lifetime and rebuilt to obviously a good standard (runs great).
Link bars (random clunking - can also be ARB bushes however not as likely).
Lower and upper arms (consistent clunking / squeaking).
Eating tyres (crappy alignment / knackered suspension - always get laser alignment done when changing tyres).
Poor MPG - thermostat / lack of servicing.
Vibration when accelerating (imagine it as a "camel walk") - Drive shafts, maybe the cups that they sit in (or both).
Notchy gearbox - apparently (mine seems pretty good..).
Corrosion on the underside - mine wasn't too bad and cleaned up well.
No power below 3000RPM (split vacuum hose likely).
EGR valve - no problems for me although previous owner did replace it.

Misc:
They don't understeer as bad as most people say - or the lighter variants handle really well :P
Aircon - even when working well is sub-par (it does cool the car).
Sounds fantastic, even if you don't like diesels.
Pulls really well and will happy rev right out.
Lofty gearing - i.e. you really want to use the IAM's suggestion of 2nd for 20, 3rd for 30m 4th for 40 etc - 6th gear is only any good above 60-65MPH (fantastic on the motorway though).
Standard ICE/Audio is respectable (apparently the Bose version is damned good).
Engines - the 1.9 and 2.4 are generally reliable and give little to no trouble, I would say they are very strong engines and the 2.4 isn't really stressed.

Thats the main things / things from the top of my head, any info needed just ask.

ETA - no DPF on the 156

Edited by donaircooleone on Monday 25th August 23:21

[itcaptainslow]

MG ZT CDTI? Remappable, handles very well but ride is also good, looks different and £2k buys you a decent one. Bonus is the engine is chain driven.

[stevemiller]

itcaptainslow said:

MG ZT CDTI? Remappable, handles very well but ride is also good, looks different and £2k buys you a decent one. Bonus is the engine is chain driven.

Second this.

[willmagrath]

webby23 said:

X Type?

We have a 2008 2.0d Sport and it's a lovely car.

Ours cost £8k from a main dealer but plenty about at less than £2000

Averages about 48-50mpg, 60+mpg on a run, with decent grunt (Bluefin) and quietened down by the upgraded tensioner kit

Done 30,000 miles in the 2 years we have had ours and apart from routine servicing it's not cost a penny in repairs

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:11

Is that Le Mans?

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:12

[willmagrath]

But in all seriousness, I would suggest a late 90's/early 00's Audi A4 1.9 TDi, I met a chap in the Goodwood campsite last year who had one in great condition, i asked how many miles it had done, he said 215,000 and all it needed over those miles was a flywheel and regular servicing (oil/belts/discs/pads)!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-A4-1-9TDI-115-SE-/3...

[greggy50]

stevemiller said:

itcaptainslow said:

MG ZT CDTI? Remappable, handles very well but ride is also good, looks different and £2k buys you a decent one. Bonus is the engine is chain driven.

Second this.

This they are great cars

Dad had two of these from new as company cars sticking 35k a year on them for 3 years and then handing them back he never had an issue and they were thrashed from day one.

Of all the company cars he has had last 10 or so years Passat/A6/A4/3 Series/Mondeo/156 these were the only ones that never had an issue during his ownership and they are still his favorite from the bunch.

[Zad]

You would probably get better value from one of the VAG group's less fashionable brands, Seat and Skoda. More toys but cheaper than VW and Audi, but a company who still has a broad (official and unofficial) support network.

[dave_s13]

Citroen C5.

Check this recent thread out.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[rb5er]

nipsips said:

My money would be going on something 2.0 petrol which will still do 45-48mpg on a run and have less worry.

I'd be very interested to hear what petrol saloon cars for under 2k can do that? Sounds like fantasy to me.

[webby23]

willmagrath said:

webby23 said:

X Type?

We have a 2008 2.0d Sport and it's a lovely car.

Ours cost £8k from a main dealer but plenty about at less than £2000

Averages about 48-50mpg, 60+mpg on a run, with decent grunt (Bluefin) and quietened down by the upgraded tensioner kit

Done 30,000 miles in the 2 years we have had ours and apart from routine servicing it's not cost a penny in repairs

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:11

Is that Le Mans?

Edited by webby23 on Monday 25th August 23:12

Weirdly no its Amiens, but it was taken on our way back from Le Mans

PS Ride quality brilliant in a X Type, for its size anyway.

[surveyor]

greggy50 said:

stevemiller said:

itcaptainslow said:

MG ZT CDTI? Remappable, handles very well but ride is also good, looks different and £2k buys you a decent one. Bonus is the engine is chain driven.

Second this.

This they are great cars

Dad had two of these from new as company cars sticking 35k a year on them for 3 years and then handing them back he never had an issue and they were thrashed from day one.

Of all the company cars he has had last 10 or so years Passat/A6/A4/3 Series/Mondeo/156 these were the only ones that never had an issue during his ownership and they are still his favorite from the bunch.

Read up on fuel pumps. They have three and are a nightmare

[nipsips]

rb5er said:

I'd be very interested to hear what petrol saloon cars for under 2k can do that? Sounds like fantasy to me.

MK3 Mondeo 2.0 Duratec.

Brimmed the tank before I left for France - to the second click. Drove to the gym and back and then picked a friend up before hitting the road. 135 miles in total. Re-brimmed tank to the second click in Dover and cost £18 (£17.96 to be exact). £18 at 130.9 a litre is 13.84 litres. Divide this by 4.55 litres to a gallon gives you 3 gallons. Divide the mileage by this and this gives you a figure of 45mpg(rough maths).

I didn't think this was particularly difficult to obtain if I'm honest - even previous Mondeo V6's used to give 39-40mpg on a solid 70mph cruise.

Definitely isn't fantasy! Would have given even more if it wasn't an automatic.

[Axionknight]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Volvo S60 D5.

Post 2003 model.

Manual if possible, be more careful with an auto.

Theyll do 300k miles easily if looked after. At 2k there will be a mix of good and bad cars, so choose carefully.

You wont find a better mile muncher for the money and theyll give 50mpg+ all day long on a steady commute.

example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-53-VOLVO-S60-D5-/18...

The Kapitein knows the correct answer to this question!

[rb5er]

Ah I understand now, you are not talking average figures but what you can achieve by hypermiling. Very impressive but a diesel can manage those figures all day long regardless of how they are driven so quite a difference.

Driving as you have been you would likely have been looking at near 60mpg in an equivalent diesel car.

A 2.0 Mondeo N/A will do very, very well to average more than 35mpg as an average under normal conditions.

I do agree with your sentiment though, unless doing mega miles the benefits of a diesel car may not be more than a few hundred quid a year.

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 26th August 19:23

[DJP]

nipsips said:

MK3 Mondeo 2.0 Duratec.

Brimmed the tank before I left for France - to the second click. Drove to the gym and back and then picked a friend up before hitting the road. 135 miles in total. Re-brimmed tank to the second click in Dover and cost £18 (£17.96 to be exact). £18 at 130.9 a litre is 13.84 litres. Divide this by 4.55 litres to a gallon gives you 3 gallons. Divide the mileage by this and this gives you a figure of 45mpg(rough maths).

I didn't think this was particularly difficult to obtain if I'm honest - even previous Mondeo V6's used to give 39-40mpg on a solid 70mph cruise.

Definitely isn't fantasy! Would have given even more if it wasn't an automatic.

You're having a laugh, my friend.

The absolute best that mine's ever managed is 36mpg – over two tankfuls and about 800 miles of French motorway.

OK, mine's a 2.3 but it's essentially the same engine and it's coupled to the more efficient 6 speed autobox.

Hard to see how 45mpg would be obtainable, unless you drove everywhere at 50mph.

[nipsips]

rb5er said:

Ah I understand now, you are not talking average figures but what you can achieve by hypermiling. Very impressive but a diesel can manage those figures all day long regardless of how they are driven so quite a difference.

Driving as you have been you would likely have been looking at near 60mpg in an equivalent diesel car.

A 2.0 Mondeo N/A will do very, very well to average more than 35mpg as an average under normal conditions.

I do agree with your sentiment though, unless doing mega miles the benefits of a diesel car may not be more than a few hundred quid a year.

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 26th August 19:23

Definitely didnt mean average. Its sat at a lowly 28mpg at the minute - and I definitely agree a petrol car is never going to do the same economy as the equivalent diesel. I just don't like the idea of diesel repair bills kicking me in the teeth and wiping out any saving - may as well drive the more refined petrol.

DJP said:

You're having a laugh, my friend.

The absolute best that mine's ever managed is 36mpg – over two tankfuls and about 800 miles of French motorway.

OK, mine's a 2.3 but it's essentially the same engine and it's coupled to the more efficient 6 speed autobox.

Hard to see how 45mpg would be obtainable, unless you drove everywhere at 50mph.

Definitely not having a laugh - it amazed even me! I wouldn't be here stating if it wasn't true and you have the maths and figures there to show my working out. Unless there's a flaw in my maths!