WIll you still buy a GT4 if it's a 2l turbo

[itsybitsy]

Although I am no fan of a 4 pot turbo yet Subaru run a flat 4 turbo and they can sound ok !maybe perhaps that's where the next engine will come from!
Joking aside if the new gt4 is a 3.4 running 370hp it will still be slower than a 10 year old gt3 if the current Gts is any thing to go by which is still nearly 3 seconds slower to 124 mph
Gts manual. 16.9 secs / caymanR 17.2 secs
Gts Pdk in sport plus 16.6 secs / caymanR 16.7 secs
2003 gt3 manual 14.3 secs
Porsche official figures

[Carl_Docklands]

It don't really matter whether the car is in production currently or not (although from the recent u.s tour it looks like it will hit in 2016) the new wave of smaller turbo charged cars from the Audi/vw group are all going to kick out 380hp or over. In terms of product positioning I can't see them leaving a 4 pot turbo cayman with anything less than 400 because those Audi cars will arguably have a more bespoke, nicer sounding 5 cyl. engine.

[mrdemon]

lets not make this a GT3 thread.

0-124mph both are slow, and as the mid engine platform out handles the rear engine platform the GTS can lap as fast with 60bhp less.

Hence why Porsche are now going to make a 250k mid engine car to go up vs the real super cars.

[mrdemon]

Carl_Docklands said:

It don't really matter whether the car is in production currently or not (although from the recent u.s tour it looks like it will hit in 2016) the new wave of smaller turbo charged cars from the Audi/vw group are all going to kick out 380hp or over. In terms of product positioning I can't see them leaving a 4 pot turbo cayman with anything less than 400 because those Audi cars will arguably have a more bespoke, nicer sounding 5 cyl. engine.

the Afla 4c sounds like a fart box.

[Carl_Docklands]

I am not saying the car needs to be a dragster, what I am saying though is that by using a bespoke flat 6 engine the product that they sell is differentiated in a big way from most other cars. It is a USP.

Once you remove the flat 6 from the equation and replace it with an engine which has the same number of cylinders as a golf and less than an rs3 or TT-RS you have to compensate the buyer with something else. And so my point is if Porsche do go down the 4 pot route, they have to give the engine quite a bit of extra oomph to provide compensation for loss of that USP.

I think Power and torque is something that many cayman buyers would trade for less cylinders on a halo car.

[itsybitsy]

mrdemon said:

lets not make this a GT3 thread.

0-124mph both are slow, and as the mid engine platform out handles the rear engine platform the GTS can lap as fast with 60bhp less.

Hence why Porsche are now going to make a 250k mid engine car to go up vs the real super cars.

My point is a newer car with similar power and Pdk should be quicker than a 10 year old car!

[itsybitsy]

Carl_Docklands said:

I am not saying the car needs to be a dragster, what I am saying though is that by using a bespoke flat 6 engine the product that they sell is differentiated in a big way from most other cars. It is a USP.

Once you remove the flat 6 from the equation and replace it with an engine which has the same number of cylinders as a golf and less than an rs3 or TT-RS you have to compensate the buyer with something else. And so my point is if Porsche do go down the 4 pot route, they have to give the engine quite a bit of extra oomph to provide compensation for loss of that USP.

I think Power and torque is something that many cayman buyers would trade for less cylinders on a halo car.

I agree more torque but from a n/a flat 6 please!with bhp it just gives more at the top end and nothing in the middle and this is where a turbo would improve things but IMHO a porsche should be a na flat6 plenty of turbos out there for speed junkies

[mrdemon]

itsybitsy said:

My point is a newer car with similar power and Pdk should be quicker than a 10 year old car!

why

that's like saying a A1 SPort should be as quick as a R8 !!!

[shoestring7]

Carl_Docklands said:

I am not saying the car needs to be a dragster, what I am saying though is that by using a bespoke flat 6 engine the product that they sell is differentiated in a big way from most other cars. It is a USP.

Once you remove the flat 6 from the equation and replace it with an engine which has the same number of cylinders as a golf and less than an rs3 or TT-RS you have to compensate the buyer with something else. And so my point is if Porsche do go down the 4 pot route, they have to give the engine quite a bit of extra oomph to provide compensation for loss of that USP.

I think Power and torque is something that many cayman buyers would trade for less cylinders on a halo car.

That makes no sense. Even if you count a water-cooled flat 6 as unique to Porsche (it isn't), that still has the same number of cylinders as any number of cheapo Audis, BMWs, Lexuses, Mercedes etc. And even in the recent past Porsche have used 4, 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines in their cars, so there's nothing about a '6' that defines the brand.

If Porsche can produce a characterful, light, efficient and powerful turbo flat 4, it has the potential to be a great engine and take the Cayman/Boxster platform to another level. They have the engineering resources to do just that too, and if they are successful no-one other than a few sad forum warriors will worry that it has the same number of cylinders as a Golf.

SS7

[Carl_Docklands]

shoestring7 said:

Carl_Docklands said:

I am not saying the car needs to be a dragster, what I am saying though is that by using a bespoke flat 6 engine the product that they sell is differentiated in a big way from most other cars. It is a USP.

Once you remove the flat 6 from the equation and replace it with an engine which has the same number of cylinders as a golf and less than an rs3 or TT-RS you have to compensate the buyer with something else. And so my point is if Porsche do go down the 4 pot route, they have to give the engine quite a bit of extra oomph to provide compensation for loss of that USP.

I think Power and torque is something that many cayman buyers would trade for less cylinders on a halo car.

That makes no sense. Even if you count a water-cooled flat 6 as unique to Porsche (it isn't), that still has the same number of cylinders as any number of cheapo Audis, BMWs, Lexuses, Mercedes etc. And even in the recent past Porsche have used 4, 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines in their cars, so there's nothing about a '6' that defines the brand.

If Porsche can produce a characterful, light, efficient and powerful turbo flat 4, it has the potential to be a great engine and take the Cayman/Boxster platform to another level. They have the engineering resources to do just that too, and if they are successful no-one other than a few sad forum warriors will worry that it has the same number of cylinders as a Golf.

SS7

The high-revving flat-6 is a unique selling point for these cars. No other manufacturer offers a sports car in its class with a such an engine. I bought a boxster instead of an Elise based on the character of the engine and knowing it was not a customised lump out of a mass produced saloon. The engine sealed the deal for me and I am sure others feel the same way.

The 370Z Nismo suffers the same problem and ditto on the Alfa 4C, Merc SLK (cough), BMW Z4 etc. etc.

I don't have a problem with using a turbo Flat-4 in a halo cayman, its just to do that I think Porsche will need to offer something they have been unwilling to do with the Flat-6 up until now - give it more power and torque than a base 911.

[N24]

Bigger benefit over Elise types is that the engine isn't OVER the gearbox - thereby making it the right type of mid-engined car.

[EricE]

The GT4, if/when it comes will be something like the RS 4.0 of Caymans. Quick, special, the last of its kind, overpriced but worth it.

Sooner rather than later all Boxsters/Caymans will have 4 pot turbos in them, assisted by a hybrid system. Audi’s 2.5L 5 cylinder concept has an output of 525 hp and rumours are that the production RS3 will be around 450 hp which makes sense if you consider the fact that they are going to slot the S3 Plus with 360-375 hp between the S3 and RS3.
Not to mention the fact that the power of a turbo engine is much more accessible due to the torque low down.

I am aware of the Boxsters and Caymans qualities as a driver’s car but from a pure performance standpoint, I’m afraid they are about to be annihilated by glorified shopping carts if they stick to the N/A 6 cylinder route.

[ChrisBuer]

I'd like it whatever engine it has. Having had NA and turbo cars, I've found them both fun in their own ways. I love a high revving engine for fun, but I also like that wallop of torque from a turbo car.

Porsche won't get it wrong either way

[ChrisW.]

But what if it has the V4 engine from the 919 ?

Dry-sumped and born to race, 400bhp and 325 Ft Lbs of torque, power upgrade as an option in a lightened big braked Cayman with bucket seats, roll cage and other Clubsport fittings ?

Turbo, but with exhaust injection anti lag to keep the turbo spinning on the over-run and give scintillating exhaust pops when you want it --- presumeably in sports mode ..

And with PDK to further minimise Turbo lag with flat changes ... ??

Half a V8 for the 988 and clearly differentiating the Sports from the GT car -- because the V4 or V8 is incompatible with the 911 format.

Who would not buy this at £80k ?

Maybe we should re-run this question under "my" spec ??

[EricE]

ChrisW. said:

But what if it has the V4 engine from the 919 ?

Dry-sumped and born to race, 400bhp and 325 Ft Lbs of torque, power upgrade as an option in a lightened big braked Cayman with bucket seats, roll cage and other Clubsport fittings ?

Turbo, but with exhaust injection anti lag to keep the turbo spinning on the over-run and give scintillating exhaust pops when you want it --- presumeably in sports mode ..

And with PDK to further minimise Turbo lag with flat changes ... ??

Half a V8 for the 988 and clearly differentiating the Sports from the GT car -- because the V4 or V8 is incompatible with the 911 format.

Who would not buy this at £80k ?

Maybe we should re-run this question under "my" spec ??

Far too expensive but more importantly it wouldn’t fit without major packaging issues (V4 turbo vs flat six). But I like the idea.

[ChrisW.]

How do you know ? How many people have seen a 919 engine ?

And without the rear seats, I would have thought that there would be plenty of room.

With a dry sump the engine would be set very low in the car ... Porsche would want it very low in the car !

[converted lurker]

Less weight, lower C of G, more torque - hell yes.

A characterful sound and responsiveness can be engineered into the package I would have thought. Very exciting. Less weight, more acceleration, better braking, more cornering G, smaller tyres, better handling. Win Win WIn.

Bring it on.

[ORD]

converted lurker said:

Less weight, lower C of G, more torque - hell yes.

A characterful sound and responsiveness can be engineered into the package I would have thought. Very exciting. Less weight, more acceleration, better braking, more cornering G, smaller tyres, better handling. Win Win WIn.

Bring it on.

Where do people get the idea that a turbo 4 is lighter than a 6? I'd need to see the actual figures, because it's not wholly obvious to me that it would be lighter. I don't think these engines are very heavy anyway, but I may be wrong.

[mollytherocker]

converted lurker said:

Less weight, lower C of G, more torque - hell yes.

A characterful sound and responsiveness can be engineered into the package I would have thought. Very exciting. Less weight, more acceleration, better braking, more cornering G, smaller tyres, better handling. Win Win WIn.

Bring it on.

I think you may be living in your own world there. How do you know the engine would be less weight and have a lower C of G?

[ChrisW.]

Who mentioned the weight of the V4 ??

Who has seen a 919 engine ?

Is there a spec sheet for it anywhere ?

This whole discussion is vapour-ware ...

So we can all play the what-if --- but we can't knock any of the possibilities because we don't know

If anybody has a better idea, please say so ... I for one am listening.

Questions. What would enable Porsche to put what they already have to the best use ???

If we consider Q3 2015 to be a possible launch date, the mules are already out there !!