Tory MP defection.

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Discussion

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?

eharding

13,602 posts

283 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?
Your metric may vary - but by any measure he wasn't europhobic enough to suit some folk back in '97, obviously.

Those self-same folk are now, by-and-large, 'kippers.

The question is, do you think that if the 'kipper diaspora were still running the Conservative Party in early 2010, Winky Brown & Co. would have been evicted?

My opinion is that no, they wouldn't. By a country mile.

Because like Skunk musk, the UKIP message is absolutely alluring to the small percentage of voting mammals who are actually Skunks, but to everything else it just really, really stinks.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
eharding said:
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?
Your metric may vary - but by any measure he wasn't europhobic enough to suit some folk back in '97, obviously.

Those self-same folk are now, by-and-large, 'kippers.

The question is, do you think that if the 'kipper diaspora were still running the Conservative Party in early 2010, Winky Brown & Co. would have been evicted?

My opinion is that no, they wouldn't. By a country mile.

Because like Skunk musk, the UKIP message is absolutely alluring to the small percentage of voting mammals who are actually Skunks, but to everything else it just really, really stinks.
So you see us kippers as a threat to the mediocre crap the red ,blue and yellow ties have been serving up sleep

Walford

2,259 posts

165 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Europe is failing, we can all see that, we need to get control of our boarders before the wheel falls of Europe completely, we also need to increase trade with the rest of the world, camaroon is not doing either

JagLover

42,268 posts

234 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
rs1952 said:
What's a "historic conservative?"

A Winston Churchill?
A Harold MacMillan?
A Ted Heath?

All of whom, incidentally, wanted the UK to play a bigger role in Europe

Or do you mean a Margaret Thatcher sort of conservative, which isn't actually all that "historic"?

Any way - forget me trying to second guess what you're on about - what's a "historic conservative" in your view?
Winston Churchill called for a united Europe but didn't think the UK would be part of it.

As for the rest there was a certain type of Conservative who reacted to the loss of Empire by trying to build a united Europe. That is only one generation so cannot define the entire history of a party.

JagLover

42,268 posts

234 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?
Indeed

Major was promoting further European integration and to say "hold on we signed up for a free trade area not an EU superstate" was enough to make you an extreme right wing Euro-phobe apparently. Too many have a "BBC" view of the history of those times.

turbobloke

103,746 posts

259 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?
Indeed

Major was promoting further European integration and to say "hold on we signed up for a free trade area not an EU superstate" was enough to make you an extreme right wing Euro-phobe apparently. Too many have a "BBC" view of the history of those times.
hehe

So true.

Lucas CAV

3,021 posts

218 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
wolves_wanderer said:
ralphrj said:
wolves_wanderer said:
At least he has called a by-election. Besides which, this seat probably isn't safe enough for Boris to be interested in.
Based only on the 2010 election result Clacton would be a safer bet than Uxbridge.
No doubt, but where would you prefer to fight an election for the Tories?

Off topic but Boris, far from looking to prove he is the Conservative with universal appeal has gone for just about the safest seat possible.
Yes - Boris would gain tonnes of credibility if went for Clacton and won it from Carswell

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Lucas CAV said:
wolves_wanderer said:
ralphrj said:
wolves_wanderer said:
At least he has called a by-election. Besides which, this seat probably isn't safe enough for Boris to be interested in.
Based only on the 2010 election result Clacton would be a safer bet than Uxbridge.
No doubt, but where would you prefer to fight an election for the Tories?

Off topic but Boris, far from looking to prove he is the Conservative with universal appeal has gone for just about the safest seat possible.
Yes - Boris would gain tonnes of credibility if went for Clacton and won it from Carswell
Carswell is a very well liked constituency MP - the most that BJ could do would be to split the right leaning vote and let in Labour. Definitely vote Tory get Labour in this case.

avinalarf

6,438 posts

141 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Walford said:
Europe is failing, we can all see that, we need to get control of our boarders before the wheel falls of Europe completely, we also need to increase trade with the rest of the world, camaroon is not doing either
I have never understood how,with so many countries with different cultures affecting their economic performance,the Eurozone could be successful.
It is difficult enough for the government of one country to get things right.
Before the Eurozone countries were able to set their own fiscal policy according to their economic condition,although not perfect,it made sense.
At least then if a country got into financial problems it did not have the snowballing effect on all the others,in the same way it does now.
Not saying that all was perfect before.

Edited by avinalarf on Friday 29th August 10:06

Digga

40,207 posts

282 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
avinalarf said:
Walford said:
Europe is failing, we can all see that, we need to get control of our boarders before the wheel falls of Europe completely, we also need to increase trade with the rest of the world, camaroon is not doing either
I have never understood how,with so many countries with different cultures affecting their economic performance,the Eurozone could be successful.
It is difficult enough for the government of one country to get things right.
Before the Eurozone countries were able to set their own fiscal policy according to their economic condition,although not perfect,it made sense.
At least then if a country got into financial problems it did not have the snowballing effect on all the others,in the same way it does now.
Not saying that all was perfect before.

Edited by avinalarf on Friday 29th August 10:06
The big Euro showdown is not far off; Germany vs. France. There can be no solution which suits the politics of both. Once one call enough, the Euro (are we on mk1 or mk2?) is over.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-28/german-fi...

league67

1,878 posts

202 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Nottingham University's Matthew Goodwin said:
So I do not think he will struggle at all to win the election under the UKIP banner - [partly] because of the demographics in Clacton, which are ideal for UKIP - this is a struggling, coastal seat, lots of older, white voters, few minority voters, it's classic left-behind territory - voters who feel they are not getting a say in Westminster, who feel they are getting left behind economically.
Quelle surprise.

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
I have just been reading about new EU laws on vacuum cleaners:-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...

What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!

No wonder people are changing to UKIP.

glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
bad company said:
I have just been reading about new EU laws on vacuum cleaners:-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...

What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!

No wonder people are changing to UKIP.
ask and ye shall receive


hairdryers firmly in their sites already

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

TKF

6,232 posts

234 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
league67 said:
Nottingham University's Matthew Goodwin said:
So I do not think he will struggle at all to win the election under the UKIP banner - [partly] because of the demographics in Clacton, which are ideal for UKIP - this is a struggling, coastal seat, lots of older, white voters, few minority voters, it's classic left-behind territory - voters who feel they are not getting a say in Westminster, who feel they are getting left behind economically.
Quelle surprise.
Clacton is "that sort" of area. In the last GE BNP picked up 2000 votes (5%).

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
glasgowrob said:
ask and ye shall receive


hairdryers firmly in their sites already

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Just as well I no longer have any hair to dry then.

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
bad company said:
glasgowrob said:
ask and ye shall receive


hairdryers firmly in their sites already

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Just as well I no longer have any hair to dry then.
Probably be towels next...






Yes I know, it was a feeble witticism and not meant seriously.

markh1973

1,787 posts

167 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Carswell apparently believes in open primaries to select election candidates.

Obviously he doesn't believe in this enough to actually be part of one instead of just replacing the person who had already been selected to fight the seat.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
wc98 said:
Jasandjules said:
Well if he is ensuring a by-election he appears to have the courage of his convictions and would appear to actually believe in the democratic process. For that reason alone I hope he is successful.
this ,never thought i would see the day in modern politics a politician would actually risk any loss on point of principle.
Quite refreshing isn't it, and surprising. One of the reasons he defected from the Tories he is a principled politician, rather old school.

ralphrj

3,508 posts

190 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
markh1973 said:
Carswell apparently believes in open primaries to select election candidates.

Obviously he doesn't believe in this enough to actually be part of one instead of just replacing the person who had already been selected to fight the seat.
It is a bit more complicated than that though. UKIP constitution seems to split the authority to pick candidates between the local association and the National Executive depending on whether the election is a general election or a by-election. Seems clear that in this case the National Executive had the right to choose the candidate as it is a by-election. However, by failing to inform the local association or the already selected prospective parliamentary candidate before unveiling Carswell there is now the potential for 2 UKIP candidates to be on the same ballot paper.