Tory MP defection.
Discussion
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?Those self-same folk are now, by-and-large, 'kippers.
The question is, do you think that if the 'kipper diaspora were still running the Conservative Party in early 2010, Winky Brown & Co. would have been evicted?
My opinion is that no, they wouldn't. By a country mile.
Because like Skunk musk, the UKIP message is absolutely alluring to the small percentage of voting mammals who are actually Skunks, but to everything else it just really, really stinks.
eharding said:
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?Those self-same folk are now, by-and-large, 'kippers.
The question is, do you think that if the 'kipper diaspora were still running the Conservative Party in early 2010, Winky Brown & Co. would have been evicted?
My opinion is that no, they wouldn't. By a country mile.
Because like Skunk musk, the UKIP message is absolutely alluring to the small percentage of voting mammals who are actually Skunks, but to everything else it just really, really stinks.
rs1952 said:
What's a "historic conservative?"
A Winston Churchill?
A Harold MacMillan?
A Ted Heath?
All of whom, incidentally, wanted the UK to play a bigger role in Europe
Or do you mean a Margaret Thatcher sort of conservative, which isn't actually all that "historic"?
Any way - forget me trying to second guess what you're on about - what's a "historic conservative" in your view?
Winston Churchill called for a united Europe but didn't think the UK would be part of it. A Winston Churchill?
A Harold MacMillan?
A Ted Heath?
All of whom, incidentally, wanted the UK to play a bigger role in Europe
Or do you mean a Margaret Thatcher sort of conservative, which isn't actually all that "historic"?
Any way - forget me trying to second guess what you're on about - what's a "historic conservative" in your view?
As for the rest there was a certain type of Conservative who reacted to the loss of Empire by trying to build a united Europe. That is only one generation so cannot define the entire history of a party.
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?Major was promoting further European integration and to say "hold on we signed up for a free trade area not an EU superstate" was enough to make you an extreme right wing Euro-phobe apparently. Too many have a "BBC" view of the history of those times.
JagLover said:
Esseesse said:
eharding said:
John Major wasn't right-wing-euro-phobic enough for...
Europhobic? I thought he was Europhile? ERM? Maastricht Treaty (the rebels were bds according to Major)?Major was promoting further European integration and to say "hold on we signed up for a free trade area not an EU superstate" was enough to make you an extreme right wing Euro-phobe apparently. Too many have a "BBC" view of the history of those times.
So true.
wolves_wanderer said:
ralphrj said:
wolves_wanderer said:
At least he has called a by-election. Besides which, this seat probably isn't safe enough for Boris to be interested in.
Based only on the 2010 election result Clacton would be a safer bet than Uxbridge.Off topic but Boris, far from looking to prove he is the Conservative with universal appeal has gone for just about the safest seat possible.
Lucas CAV said:
wolves_wanderer said:
ralphrj said:
wolves_wanderer said:
At least he has called a by-election. Besides which, this seat probably isn't safe enough for Boris to be interested in.
Based only on the 2010 election result Clacton would be a safer bet than Uxbridge.Off topic but Boris, far from looking to prove he is the Conservative with universal appeal has gone for just about the safest seat possible.
Walford said:
Europe is failing, we can all see that, we need to get control of our boarders before the wheel falls of Europe completely, we also need to increase trade with the rest of the world, camaroon is not doing either
I have never understood how,with so many countries with different cultures affecting their economic performance,the Eurozone could be successful.It is difficult enough for the government of one country to get things right.
Before the Eurozone countries were able to set their own fiscal policy according to their economic condition,although not perfect,it made sense.
At least then if a country got into financial problems it did not have the snowballing effect on all the others,in the same way it does now.
Not saying that all was perfect before.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 29th August 10:06
avinalarf said:
Walford said:
Europe is failing, we can all see that, we need to get control of our boarders before the wheel falls of Europe completely, we also need to increase trade with the rest of the world, camaroon is not doing either
I have never understood how,with so many countries with different cultures affecting their economic performance,the Eurozone could be successful.It is difficult enough for the government of one country to get things right.
Before the Eurozone countries were able to set their own fiscal policy according to their economic condition,although not perfect,it made sense.
At least then if a country got into financial problems it did not have the snowballing effect on all the others,in the same way it does now.
Not saying that all was perfect before.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 29th August 10:06
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-28/german-fi...
Nottingham University's Matthew Goodwin said:
So I do not think he will struggle at all to win the election under the UKIP banner - [partly] because of the demographics in Clacton, which are ideal for UKIP - this is a struggling, coastal seat, lots of older, white voters, few minority voters, it's classic left-behind territory - voters who feel they are not getting a say in Westminster, who feel they are getting left behind economically.
Quelle surprise.I have just been reading about new EU laws on vacuum cleaners:-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...
What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!
No wonder people are changing to UKIP.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...
What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!
No wonder people are changing to UKIP.
bad company said:
I have just been reading about new EU laws on vacuum cleaners:-
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...
What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!
No wonder people are changing to UKIP.
ask and ye shall receivehttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/anger...
What next hair dryers, toasters - CARS !!!!
No wonder people are changing to UKIP.
hairdryers firmly in their sites already
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
league67 said:
Nottingham University's Matthew Goodwin said:
So I do not think he will struggle at all to win the election under the UKIP banner - [partly] because of the demographics in Clacton, which are ideal for UKIP - this is a struggling, coastal seat, lots of older, white voters, few minority voters, it's classic left-behind territory - voters who feel they are not getting a say in Westminster, who feel they are getting left behind economically.
Quelle surprise.glasgowrob said:
ask and ye shall receive
hairdryers firmly in their sites already
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Just as well I no longer have any hair to dry then.hairdryers firmly in their sites already
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
bad company said:
glasgowrob said:
ask and ye shall receive
hairdryers firmly in their sites already
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Just as well I no longer have any hair to dry then.hairdryers firmly in their sites already
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...
Yes I know, it was a feeble witticism and not meant seriously.
wc98 said:
Jasandjules said:
Well if he is ensuring a by-election he appears to have the courage of his convictions and would appear to actually believe in the democratic process. For that reason alone I hope he is successful.
this ,never thought i would see the day in modern politics a politician would actually risk any loss on point of principle.markh1973 said:
Carswell apparently believes in open primaries to select election candidates.
Obviously he doesn't believe in this enough to actually be part of one instead of just replacing the person who had already been selected to fight the seat.
It is a bit more complicated than that though. UKIP constitution seems to split the authority to pick candidates between the local association and the National Executive depending on whether the election is a general election or a by-election. Seems clear that in this case the National Executive had the right to choose the candidate as it is a by-election. However, by failing to inform the local association or the already selected prospective parliamentary candidate before unveiling Carswell there is now the potential for 2 UKIP candidates to be on the same ballot paper. Obviously he doesn't believe in this enough to actually be part of one instead of just replacing the person who had already been selected to fight the seat.
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