5 Year Old Cancer Patient Abducted By Parents From Hospital!
Discussion
Qwert1e said:
zetec said:
The Police will be working for the child's best interest, these being in hospital and comfortable.
Fortunately aggressive do-gooders like yourself do not "trump" the rights of a child's parents.Broadly speaking, unless there's an "easy fix" for a childhood illness which the parents refuse to adopt, English law will not intervene. It takes the common sense approach that if parents want their child to die amongst the comforts of family rather than in a sterile hospital environment then that's exactly what they are entitled to do.
removing any patient from an inpatient environment without consultation and appropriate care planning is NOT in the best interest of the patient... THIS IS WHY THE ISSUE AROSE becasue the parents chose to take the child without discussing it with the clinicans accountable for that child's welfare and treatment.
but never mind the powerfully built be-goateed company director PHers know far more than any clinician ever can because after all clinicans are just public sector jobsworth scum ...
mph1977 said:
the parents chose to take the child without discussing it with the clinicans accountable for that child's welfare and treatment.
The doctors said they didn't want to discuss it. Any further questions or challenges to the care plan would be met with a child protection order.We don't know what went on between the hospital and the parents.
Parents seem to be saying that they asked for alternative treatments but the hospital were syaing it had to be done their way and if they argued they would obtain a court order.
Maybe the medical staff know best or maybe they agree the proton treatment would be good but they cannot offer it.
Interesting that initally the impression was created that the kid was really seriously ill and possibly didn't have too long left - whereas that doesn't seem to be the impression created by the video.
I spose the question is wil lthe UK medical people insist on their treatment or will they let the parents do what they want.
Legally, I presume the parents can be bought back to be prosecuted - can you force someone to come back to a country for medical treatment? I doubt it. Complicated by the fact it is a chidl so unsure whose views count - the parents or the meidcal people.
Parents seem to be saying that they asked for alternative treatments but the hospital were syaing it had to be done their way and if they argued they would obtain a court order.
Maybe the medical staff know best or maybe they agree the proton treatment would be good but they cannot offer it.
Interesting that initally the impression was created that the kid was really seriously ill and possibly didn't have too long left - whereas that doesn't seem to be the impression created by the video.
I spose the question is wil lthe UK medical people insist on their treatment or will they let the parents do what they want.
Legally, I presume the parents can be bought back to be prosecuted - can you force someone to come back to a country for medical treatment? I doubt it. Complicated by the fact it is a chidl so unsure whose views count - the parents or the meidcal people.
mph1977 said:
Qwert1e said:
zetec said:
The Police will be working for the child's best interest, these being in hospital and comfortable.
Fortunately aggressive do-gooders like yourself do not "trump" the rights of a child's parents.Broadly speaking, unless there's an "easy fix" for a childhood illness which the parents refuse to adopt, English law will not intervene. It takes the common sense approach that if parents want their child to die amongst the comforts of family rather than in a sterile hospital environment then that's exactly what they are entitled to do.
removing any patient from an inpatient environment without consultation and appropriate care planning is NOT in the best interest of the patient... THIS IS WHY THE ISSUE AROSE becasue the parents chose to take the child without discussing it with the clinicans accountable for that child's welfare and treatment.
but never mind the powerfully built be-goateed company director PHers know far more than any clinician ever can because after all clinicans are just public sector jobsworth scum ...
dandarez said:
Have you watched the video on youtube from the father of the child (with the child on his lap)?
I have seen the video and it does not change my view on the topic. it's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources. mph1977 said:
I have seen the video and it does not change my view on the topic
Perhaps it should.Whilst you try and deny any wrongdoing by the NHS, surely you must understand that things go wrong and the Dogma of 'perfect ' treatment is but a dream?
As BVD mentioned, the battery thing was absolute rubbish.
mph1977 said:
dandarez said:
Have you watched the video on youtube from the father of the child (with the child on his lap)?
I have seen the video and it does not change my view on the topic. it's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources. I am the first to criticise anyone who abandons proven therapies to embark upon an unproven ''alternative'' treatment of mega-vitamins or whatever.
That is not what is happening here. Proton beam therapy is not some quack remedy; it is already in use in numerous centres and has been studied in precisely this type of tumour, it's main advantage being it is sparing of the healthy tissues and can be more tightly focused on the tumour. As one of the major issues with this type of cancer is that the physicians manage to destroy the tumour but the effect of radiotherapy on the brain and spinal cord leaves the child profoundly disabled, it is perfectly understandable that the parents would want to explore this option
Many parents administer liquid feed via a pump and NG tube, it is not rocket science.
Clearly the relationship between the parents and the medical team have broken down, but I can see no justification at all for arresting them for neglect
TVR1 said:
mph1977 said:
I have seen the video and it does not change my view on the topic
Perhaps it should.Whilst you try and deny any wrongdoing by the NHS, surely you must understand that things go wrong and the Dogma of 'perfect ' treatment is but a dream?
As BVD mentioned, the battery thing was absolute rubbish.
I notice that mr King was very quiet on the subject on the Second opinion that he is legally entitled to request from an independent clinician - i.e. one who has not previously been involved in the care of Aysha - it is usual, where there are several such clinicians within a trust to offer the patient / parent the choice between an 'in house' 2nd opinion and a 2nd opinion from a clinician based in another centre , in some cases the second opinion offered will be from another centre due to the fact that the relevant clinicians in trust have all ready been involved.
I also note from the statements he has made he decided that he would not undertake any further discussion with the accountable clinicians after the suggestion that if Aysha was put at risk that emergency child protection action would be taken.
for those posting from a position of ignorance , no clinician can put one of these orders in place, only a Judge can do that , so for it to happen there would have to be involvemkent of the police, Social services and senior hospital managers and the hospital's legal advisors.
As it obviously escaped your comprehension the last time i posted this
"It's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources. "as for the battery issues , if the ward were unsure that the charging base for the pump was also taken they were correct to work on the worse case scenario - most of the modern feed pumps are two piece units as Becca Pointed out .
mph1977 said:
there are a number of types of feed pump on the market, some of which do not have 'a normal mains cable' to charge them , yes a normal mains cable goes into the docking station but without the docking station they become a paperweight when they go flat ...
If it was the same pump my son has they wouldn't have to worry about charging it as it would probably throw a fault code and die before it needs charging!mph1977 said:
What wrong doing am i denying ?
I notice that mr King was very quiet on the subject on the Second opinion that he is legally entitled to request from an independent clinician - i.e. one who has not previously been involved in the care of Aysha - it is usual, where there are several such clinicians within a trust to offer the patient / parent the choice between an 'in house' 2nd opinion and a 2nd opinion from a clinician based in another centre , in some cases the second opinion offered will be from another centre due to the fact that the relevant clinicians in trust have all ready been involved.
I also note from the statements he has made he decided that he would not undertake any further discussion with the accountable clinicians after the suggestion that if Aysha was put at risk that emergency child protection action would be taken.
for those posting from a position of ignorance , no clinician can put one of these orders in place, only a Judge can do that , so for it to happen there would have to be involvemkent of the police, Social services and senior hospital managers and the hospital's legal advisors.
As it obviously escaped your comprehension the last time i posted this
"It's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter ste that is put out by none credible sources. "
as for the battery issues , if the ward were unsure that the charging base for the pump was also taken they were correct to work on the worse case scenario - most of the modern feed pumps are two piece units as Becca Pointed out .
That is extremely unfair. He has expressed a wish to take his son for treatment abroad where proton beam therapy - a proven, tested, conventional treatment with good clinical outcomes and fewer long-term consequences - is available. He was prepared to sell a property to fund it. Where is the neglect?I notice that mr King was very quiet on the subject on the Second opinion that he is legally entitled to request from an independent clinician - i.e. one who has not previously been involved in the care of Aysha - it is usual, where there are several such clinicians within a trust to offer the patient / parent the choice between an 'in house' 2nd opinion and a 2nd opinion from a clinician based in another centre , in some cases the second opinion offered will be from another centre due to the fact that the relevant clinicians in trust have all ready been involved.
I also note from the statements he has made he decided that he would not undertake any further discussion with the accountable clinicians after the suggestion that if Aysha was put at risk that emergency child protection action would be taken.
for those posting from a position of ignorance , no clinician can put one of these orders in place, only a Judge can do that , so for it to happen there would have to be involvemkent of the police, Social services and senior hospital managers and the hospital's legal advisors.
As it obviously escaped your comprehension the last time i posted this
"It's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources. "as for the battery issues , if the ward were unsure that the charging base for the pump was also taken they were correct to work on the worse case scenario - most of the modern feed pumps are two piece units as Becca Pointed out .
The Wail had a very prejudicial headline last night, referring to the father in less than complimentary terms and calling the video ''bizarre''
Overnight this has morphed into ''heartfelt''
Unfortunately for the Mail, they have forgotten that the old headline still shows further down the page. Bloody scum press.
Overnight this has morphed into ''heartfelt''
Unfortunately for the Mail, they have forgotten that the old headline still shows further down the page. Bloody scum press.
zetec said:
I don't think the hospitals aim is to keep the boy alive for as long as possible, more to make sure he is comfortable and pain free.
The Police will be working for the child's best interest, these being in hospital and comfortable.
I'm not convinced this is the case really... I certainly think it is debatable. Sometimes medics don't know when to stop or may not be offering the best or favoured treatment. The Police will be working for the child's best interest, these being in hospital and comfortable.
What I don't understand is why the parents weren't able to discuss this with the hospital and make arrangements for him to leave with all the required palliative care in place or help to transfer to another facility, rather than just disappear without warning. Or maybe they did and the doctors were insistent on following their treatment plan only.
Who knows, I can't help but feel there has to be some back story here. The media coverage has been quite shocking, I don't understand why their religion is relevant and these accusations of abducting their own child are weird. In fact the whole situation is somewhat bizarre.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 31st August 08:41
BlackLabel said:
Does the law not say otherwise - for example, the recent case of a mother who refused her 7 year old child radiotherapy because she did not believe in conventional medical treatment?
Yes but I believe in that case the father wanted the child to have conventional treatment and the mother was a crystal waving hippy. I also suspect the prognosis with conventional treatment was a lot better than it would be in this case. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff