Mk 6 Golf, during service hairline crack spotted in spring?

Mk 6 Golf, during service hairline crack spotted in spring?

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5to1

Original Poster:

1,781 posts

232 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
My Dad took my Mums 5 year old (20k miles) Mk 6 golf in for its service the other day. When he called to see if he could pick it up, he got the normal advisory about how tyres and brakes were on their way out, but then was told the OSR spring was cracked and this would be an MOT failure. At that point he said that was surprising as he'd got the MOT done a week ago and they hadn't spotted any issues with the car.

He asked for pictures of the crack and got himself over to the dealer to get the car (obviously having lost some trust in them now). When he arrived they told him they couldn't get it to show up on a picture. Apparently it was a "hairline" crack, thats why it was probably missed during MOT, a picture couldn't be taken, the service advisor hadn't seen it (protecting himself?) but the un-named engineer had found it using a mirror.

My Dad obviously called BS and today I got a call back from the "senior" service advisor. After the initial exchange I just got straight to the point and challenged him wether it was normal procedure to inspect a cars springs with a mirror in such detail that the engineer discovered a hairline crack that was missed by the MOT centre, couldn't be pictured and no one else could subsequently see (reminding him the car had very few miles, had just turned 5 years old, had no secondary signs/symptoms of possible suspension issues). He un-suprisingly suggested this was normal, and I responded in which case that must be the most thorough engineer I've ever encountered, let alone at a franchised dealer smile He did offer to bring the car back in and try to show me the crack and also said they had discussed some good will with VW. But I told him i'd be checking this with VW myself first.

Anyway, after speaking to VW CS (who went and checked with their own engineer), they advised it would be unlikely a spring would have a hairline crack. Perhaps it was the coating which is cracked/chipped, but that is normal wear and tear and not an indication of spring failure. They couldn't comment on the use of a mirror to check for hairline cracks, but suggested if a spring was cracked it would be obvious as soon as load had been removed from it.

At this stage I am heavily leaning towards suspecting this is BS and an attempt to lighten my dads wallet (after he didn't bite on the wheels/brakes). Am I being overly pessimistic? It just seems implausible to me that it would have a hairline crack at this age/mileage and if it did that the engineer would find such a small crack during a service. My next step will be to take it in and ask them to show me the crack, but I suspect this will be a waste of my time and they will just say "sorry we mistook a chip/crack in the coating for one in the spring".

Anyone suffered anything similar, namely a hairline crack in a spring thats been under load?

Edited by 5to1 on Friday 29th August 14:46

cuprabob

14,414 posts

213 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Not heard of a hair line crack on a spring before however broken springs is one of the most common faults on VAG cars. In my experience it seems to happen more on cars that are not used much and do very low mileages.

Therefore in your case I can understand why they checked in some detail the condition of the springs as it's not always obvious when they snap, however I think the hairline crack is BS.

Sheepshanks

32,518 posts

118 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
5to1 said:
At that point he said that was surprising as he'd got the MOT done a week ago and they hadn't spotted any issues with the car.
....
Anyone suffered anything similar, namely a hairline crack in a spring thats been under load?
Going back some years, I had similar in that a Renault dealer noted both rear coil springs were broken on wife's 4yr old 20K mile Clio, a few days after MOT by our village garage. I went to look and they were the shiniest breaks you could imagine. I also found it interesting that the dealer, who never had anything else I wanted, had 9 springs in stock. The car was one of the last with a 1 yr warranty and the dealer laughed at suggestion of goodwill as the car was then 3yrs out of warranty. I called Renault UK and 15mins later they called back to say they'd pick up the bill in full.

I do know on some Merc models, it's common to use a mirror to check the bottom end of the spring as it breaks in the cup and can't be seen, although I gather that's not allowed on the MOT - if they can't see it, it's assumed to be OK (which is a bit bonkers). It happened on my Merc at 9yrs old and there was absolutely no indication the spring had gone. I have Warranty Direct cover and they covered the cost (good of them really, as they could have easily said it was due to corrosion).

Good luck with VW - I found they talked a good game but were useless at actually doing anything when we had a dealer opinion/lying issue with our Golf and its corroding wheels. Now the dealer has raised this "issue" it will play on your parents' minds until it's resolved and the only way to completely do that is to replace the spring. If you pay the dealer will probably insist on doing both sides, if the dealer or VW pick up the tab they'll assure you that changing one is fine.

the-photographer

3,479 posts

175 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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If you do replace, mark the spring (even with a rusty screwdriver) and ask for it!

okie592

2,711 posts

166 months

Friday 29th August 2014
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It could be true, we have a fleet of mk6 golfs that are 3 years old a mix of estate and hatches and 7 of them have had snapped rear coil springs

5to1

Original Poster:

1,781 posts

232 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the comments guys. Going to have to take it in so they can show me the crack. As SheepShanks highlighted, now the dealer has suggested its cracked it will play on our minds until we know for sure.

WRT goodwill the chap I spoke to said he'd already spoken to VW and they'd agreed some goodwill, plus the dealership would offer some :/ Perhaps I should consider it proactive, but according to my Dad he didn't give them any impression he intended to replace the spring. I guess he had some time between me calling and him returning my call.

Still leaning towards it being BS though :/

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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I know of a case of a VAG car going to a dealer for MOT. The dealer failed it on broken rear springs, CV boot split and tyre showing cords. The owner declined it and went to an indy. The indy did the work (using pattern parts and actually to a not very high standard! But didn't do the springs) then re-moted the car and passed it. Despite broken springs being MOT fail.

Customer phoned dealer and went mad. This indy didn't fail it on springs you robbing s etc etc

Dealer told customer to come down, where they raised the car got the customer out and with a mirror SHOWED him (and his dad who was apparently an "expert on cars") the breaks in the springs. Then showed him the indies stty workmanship too. Cable tie on the CV Boot! Tyres still showing cords

Guys face was hilarious! But like the OP wouldn't admit he was in the wrong and that actually the dealer was right and not trying to mug him. rolleyes

What most people cant fathom is that dealer staff (generally) have more to lose from bad image etc so they (generally) try to do a good job. Whereas a lot of fred in a shed types (not all) will try and fix it then either mug you off or tell you to clear off since they don't have a manufacturer breathing down their neck. But as eve "all dealers are bds" is the standard response to anything being told to the customer that will cost extra money. Whether it's warranted or not!

5to1

Original Poster:

1,781 posts

232 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
I know of a case of a VAG car going to a dealer for MOT. The dealer failed it on broken rear springs, CV boot split and tyre showing cords. The owner declined it and went to an indy. The indy did the work (using pattern parts and actually to a not very high standard! But didn't do the springs) then re-moted the car and passed it. Despite broken springs being MOT fail.

Customer phoned dealer and went mad. This indy didn't fail it on springs you robbing s etc etc

Dealer told customer to come down, where they raised the car got the customer out and with a mirror SHOWED him (and his dad who was apparently an "expert on cars") the breaks in the springs. Then showed him the indies stty workmanship too. Cable tie on the CV Boot! Tyres still showing cords

Guys face was hilarious! But like the OP wouldn't admit he was in the wrong and that actually the dealer was right and not trying to mug him. rolleyes

What most people cant fathom is that dealer staff (generally) have more to lose from bad image etc so they (generally) try to do a good job. Whereas a lot of fred in a shed types (not all) will try and fix it then either mug you off or tell you to clear off since they don't have a manufacturer breathing down their neck. But as eve "all dealers are bds" is the standard response to anything being told to the customer that will cost extra money. Whether it's warranted or not!
That's a lovely story, but not sure what makes the chap in your story "like the OP". Firstly when was it determined I was wrong, what was I wrong about and when did I fail to admit I was wrong?

I've stated my reasons for suspecting they are telling porkies. Failing to show the crack upon request (in person or with a picture), previously having lied about the life left in my tyres/brakes (still going strong a couple of years after they apparently needed replacing), VW telling me its highly unlikely the spring would have a hairline crack, the age/mileage/condition of the car suggesting it unlikely a spring should have failed.

Should I not proceed with some caution given those circumstances? Should I not ask to see the cracked part they expect me to cough up to have replaced? Should I not proceed with some caution when I've previously been told perfectly good tyres and brakes need replacing? I also stated I would be taking it back in to give them an opportunity to show me the damaged themselves.

BTW how did you come to hear about this tale of the silly customer who wouldn't admit he was wrong? I assume the silly customer didn't tell you, as he obviously still thinks he was in the right smile. Was it perhaps the dealer or someone associated with them that told you? Also what should I take from his lovely fable about the stupid customer? That I should trust the dealer implicitly? Not too sure that would be a good idea, I'd have got 10k less miles out of the brakes and tyres if I'd done that :/

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Monday 1st September 2014
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5to1 said:
That's a lovely story, but not sure what makes the chap in your story "like the OP". Firstly when was it determined I was wrong, what was I wrong about and when did I fail to admit I was wrong?
From the earlier post!

5to1 said:
My Dad obviously called BS and today I got a call back from the "senior" service advisor. After the initial exchange I just got straight to the point and challenged him wether it was normal procedure to inspect a cars springs with a mirror in such detail
Why would he check? Maybe it's a common fault and he wanted to. Sorry he wanted to be thorough rolleyes


5to1 said:
He did offer to bring the car back in and try to show me the crack and also said they had discussed some good will with VW. But I told him i'd be checking this with VW myself first.
Jesus Christ. He OFFERED to show you and you declined! rolleyes

5to1 said:
Anyway, after speaking to VW CS (who went and checked with their own engineer),
Who hasn't actually seen YOUR DADs CAR!

5to1 said:
they advised it would be unlikely a spring would have a hairline crack. Perhaps it was the coating which is cracked/chipped, but that is normal wear and tear and not an indication of spring failure. They couldn't comment on the use of a mirror to check for hairline cracks, but suggested if a spring was cracked it would be obvious as soon as load had been removed from it.
So some "expert" on the phone at Milton Keynes (or perhaps a call centre in India) tells you that VWs never go wrong and you take their word over someone whose seen the car in question! And lets not mess about. It wouldn't be OBVIOUS if it was cracked in the lower arm where it's difficult to see without a mirror.

5to1 said:
My next step will be to take it in and ask them to show me the crack, but I suspect this will be a waste of my time and they will just say "sorry we mistook a chip/crack in the coating for one in the spring".
They've already offered that! But you didn't want to as you wanted to check with the VW complaints department first. Shows what your motives were! rolleyes


Any dealer regardless of brand worth their salt will happily show you what they want to do. Then if you don't want it done. Take the car away. But to jump on PH and expect people to blindly side with you because it's that nasty main dealer and they are always robbing people. Just marks you down as a lot stupid! laugh

+++++++++

I've stated my reasons for suspecting they are telling porkies. Failing to show the crack upon request (in person or with a picture),
THEY OFFERED TO!

previously having lied about the life left in my tyres/brakes (still going strong a couple of years after they apparently needed replacing),

They give percentages on brakes based on 10K a year. if you aren't doing that how can they possibly read your mind! AS for tyres did they advise them at 3mm left and you should consider getting them replaced? AS all good drivers should at 3mm. If you want to run them down to the cords and claim "well I got my moneys worth" that's up to you. But imagine if they HADN'T told you they were 3mm and you'd skidded off the road in heavy rain

VW telling me its highly unlikely the spring would have a hairline crack, the age/mileage/condition of the car suggesting it unlikely a spring should have failed.
YET Google Broken Spring Golf and you'll get several results! So bks to your "VW said it'll never break" response since clearly they do and they are

Should I not proceed with some caution given those circumstances? Should I not ask to see the cracked part they expect me to cough up to have replaced? Should I not proceed with some caution when I've previously been told perfectly good tyres and brakes need replacing? I also stated I would be taking it back in to give them an opportunity to show me the damaged themselves.

Caution is wise. Jumping to the conclusion straight away, without facts that they are trying to pull a fast one is idiotic. In fact why do you even bother with the dealers then? Clearly you don't trust them in any way and will never trust them. People like you are a scurge of annoyance in life generally. "I don't like your service, because I don't and nothing you can do will make me change my opinion" rolleyes And I don't just mean car dealers. I bet you're a riot in Tescos or M&S or Carphone Warehouse laugh



5to1

Original Poster:

1,781 posts

232 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
I suggest you read the entire post, rather then dissect bits of it in an attempt to paint me as the foolish customer akin to the one in your lovely tale. But since you seem bent on trying to defend a dealer you don't know (?), i'll highlight the key points for you:

1) They told my dad about the crack on the phone
2) He requested a picture of said crack, none was forth coming
3) He went to the dealer and was told by the service agent he was unable to picture the crack
4) The service agent he spoke to said he hadn't been able to see it either
5) He said the engineer had used a mirror to find the hairline crack
6) They DID NOT offer to show him the crack
7) I called and requested to speak to a manager about this
8) A senior service advisor called me back and after hearing my complaint agreed to show me the crack if I bought the car back in. I told him i'd FIRST be speaking to VW about this, as previously they'd told me porkies about tyres and brakes needing replacing when they didn't.
9) After speaking to VW and canvasing some advice from here I stated on here I'd be now taking the car back so they could show me the crack (for example VW advised they may be mistaking a crack in the plastic coating, but that is normal).
10) My Dad is getting the car booked in to check the spring (I haven't explicitly stated that on this thread, but I guessed most would know its not usually possible to just waltz into a franchise dealer, it usually takes some time to arrange a service slot).


You seem to be hell bent on trying to blame the customer and you still haven't answered how you knew that lovely tale about the stupid customer? Are you the dealer, an employee, a friend of the dealer perhaps?

For example in response to the offer to take the car back in and show me the crack I responded:

" I will speak to VW FIRST"

How exactly did you manage to interpret that as a blanket refusal of the offer. All I'm saying to the dealer is I will speak to VW FIRST, i.e. before I take the car back to them. Moreover, Subsequently I have stated I will be going back to them and taking up this offer.

Rich_W said:
Why would he check? Maybe it's a common fault and he wanted to. Sorry he wanted to be thorough
There was no need for you to surmise why they did it, immediately after the part you quoted I stated the response. It wasn't because it was a common fault, it wasn't because there were other signs/indications of possible damage, it wasn't because of the condition/mileage of the car, they stated it was "normal practice" to inspect every spring with a mirror. Again you conveniently ignored the information provided to try and deride me and defend the dealer :/

WRT tyres/brakes you seem to be clutching at straws to justify the behaviour of the dealer. The Tyres and brakes are still good, over 10k after they told me they needed changing. Lets say they need changing in 8k miles and they assume I will do 10k before the next service, are you suggesting its acceptable for a dealer to tell me to change them now, just because they will need changing at some time before the next service? Anything that won't last 12 months should be ditched right now should it? Even if it will last 11 months? Or in this case 2 years and still going! They might have had a clue about the mileage we do, given its a one owner car and over the proceeding 3 years it had just about broken 10k :/ Is it really beyond these wonderful experts that you've been lauding to do some simple arithmetic? Is the prudent course of action to ditch the tyres and brakes now because on some worst case scenario they may not make it to the next service?

Its funny that when I questioned the dealer, you jumped to their defence claiming they have a reputation to protect and are experts, as opposed to shoddy third party garages. But when VW's own engineer (who serves their national customer service line) suggests a hairline crack is unlikely, suddenly he's just "some expert"? VW don't have a reputation to protect? They don't have any interest in ensuring the engineers their CS agents consult are qualified/experts? BTW it wasn't an Indian helpline, who's jumping to conclusions now?

I'm not sure if you have a vested interest or are just some type of fanboy of the brand intent on reading malice into anyone that dares to question the behaviour of one of its halo'd, expert, dealers (of course its ok when you question VW's own engineers/CS services).

I suspect they are telling porkies, they have done so in the past WRT tyres/brakes. My Dad asked them to show him the crack, they failed to do so. I had to phone and complain to get them to offer to show me the crack. Prior to taking up this offer I let them know I'd be consulting VW customer service, to minimise the chance of being fobbed off/lied to. I haven't jumped to conclusions, I have some suspicions based on past behaviour and advice from VW themselves. Now I'm going to give them the chance to show me the crack.

I havent derided the dealer in general. I haven't derided franchise dealers in general. Other then regularly being told tyres/brakes need changing when they don't, I have very few issues with Franchised dealers. They tend to be competitively priced, slot me in within a reasonable time period, sometimes turn the car around while I wait and IMO since I tend to buy new cars offer me greater chance of manufacturer goodwill should the worst happen.

Last year they told me the cam belt needed changing. They were wrong, it actually needed changing at year 5 as I found within a minute of checking online (I checked as it was low mileage and I was surprised it needed changing already). If I was hell bent on labelling them the evil empire I could have mentioned that as a reason they couldn't be trusted. But instead I chalked that down to a mistake (since my car is the first MY that requires it at year 5).

If they'd showed him the crack this issue wouldn't have arisen. But they didn't. First they tried to sell my Dad consumables he didn't need, then they told him a spring was damaged. Given the age/mileage he quite reasonably queried this and they failed to show him the crack upon request. Had they done that this issue wouldnt have arisen. I havent named a dealer, I havent derided the dealer (or franchised dealerS) in general, I've just given the facts and canvased opinion from here and VW themselves prior to taking the car back.

Its only you thats jumping to conclusions, stating I was proven wrong? Did you jump in a Delorian and already see the outcome of the next inspection? Because barring that, like me you have no idea wether the spring is in fact damaged. Thats why I've said I "suspect"/am "leaning" towards it being BS/porkie, I've never actually said they are wrong as you've been so happy to accuse me.

Edited by 5to1 on Tuesday 2nd September 10:24


Edited by 5to1 on Tuesday 2nd September 10:35


Edited by 5to1 on Tuesday 2nd September 12:00

5to1

Original Poster:

1,781 posts

232 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
So to update you guys, just got a call from my Dad who took it in to look at the spring.

There was what appeared to be a scratch on the black coating according to my Dad near the end of the spring. The dealer said there was no coating on the spring and maintained it was a hairline crack. However, he confirmed it didn't need changing and wouldn't be an MOT failure.

I subsequently spoke to the Service advisor informing him I'd spoken to VW and they'd told me there was a coating on the spring (luckily I did that FIRST). Therefore why had they claimed to my dad there was no coating. At which point I was told there is paint on the spring but no coating :/ Is paint not a coating? Cant paint be scratched? Anyway while he maintained they were right that it was a hairline crack, he acknowledged they were wrong to say it was an MOT failure and that it needed replacing. I said if you're sure its a crack chase it up with VW, as at 22k and no other indications of impact/suspension damage if the condition of the spring is not normal I expect them to do something about it.

At this point I was told it might not be a crack, they'd have to remove it to check. To which I replied how did they then feel confident enough to suggest it needed replacing/was an MOT failure a few days ago and just minutes before were adamant it wasn't a scratch on the coating but a hairline crack :/ Things switched around again, to them being 99% certain it was a crack, so I gave up there. Ultimately they had to agree they were wrong about it needed replacing and it being an MOT failure. I also told them I expected them to chase it up with VW if they're 99% certain its a crack and if its abnormal.

I'm sure a certain someone will still find a way to label me as wrong and a stupid customer. I should have happily replaced a spring that the dealer now acknowledges didn't need replacing and some tyres and brakes that have served me well two years on :/ IMO doing that would make me a stupid customer.

Sheepshanks

32,518 posts

118 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Sounds same as the wheel issue on our car.

Dealer said they're not corroded enough to warrant replacement, then lied by saying they were covered for 4yrs.

VW UK said "not corroded enough" is not a suitable answer. They're either OK, or they're not. Great, I thought, they're clearly starting to corrode.

Went back to the dealer. Now they say the wheels are OK. rolleyes

Was called yesterday by the dealer as they're having a special event, and asked which day I'd like to come in. Asked if they'd be able to resolve the issue with out current car and they offered to transfer me to service. I picked up a new car today - it wasn't a VW.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Tuesday 2nd September 17:36

ilduce

485 posts

126 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Tsk. You should buy a Porsche: at the 40k service I was warned that one front and one rear shock absorber were "worn" meaning all four should be changed for £2.5k
I didn't bother.
At the 60k service and the 80k service they were perfect.

Porsche: self healing parts.