Discussion
Sorry if there's already a thread. But what is going on here, normally as a fairly level headed person i can see both sides, and can sympathize with the police who have a tough job to do.
But I really don't see the police angle on this one. I can see they would have an interest but, arrest?
the grand mother was on the radio this morning, understandably upset and little biased. But she has accused the hospital of lieing to the police. which makes no sense to me, however they have said he can only be fed via the battery operated tube, yet the parents seem to have a plug in system for the car and the mains?
I don't understand how taking your child out of hospital breaks any law's no matter how ill. it has to be your choice who cares for your kid's?
Whats PH's thoughts. have any laws been broken?
But I really don't see the police angle on this one. I can see they would have an interest but, arrest?
the grand mother was on the radio this morning, understandably upset and little biased. But she has accused the hospital of lieing to the police. which makes no sense to me, however they have said he can only be fed via the battery operated tube, yet the parents seem to have a plug in system for the car and the mains?
I don't understand how taking your child out of hospital breaks any law's no matter how ill. it has to be your choice who cares for your kid's?
Whats PH's thoughts. have any laws been broken?
There is a long thread about this in NPE. I think that the arrest was done to save police face and for no other reason. No crime has been committed, and the media furore is a disgrace.
Parents do not own their children, but they have primary decision making responsibility unless and until displaced by a court (where for example they neglect or seek to harm a child). Absent a court order, disagreeing with parental judgment about medical care is no basis for arresting them.
Parents do not own their children, but they have primary decision making responsibility unless and until displaced by a court (where for example they neglect or seek to harm a child). Absent a court order, disagreeing with parental judgment about medical care is no basis for arresting them.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st September 12:17
Cheers breadvan
on a quick flick through it seem to have degenerated into a pros and cons of Proton therapy thread.
one of the posters was suggesting that the kid's doctors had sort or are seeking a legal injunction against the parents to prevent them seeking alternative treatments.
is there ant fact in that? again seems like a ridiculous situation. especially as Proton therapy seems to be a good solution (In my very limited understanding) but not available through the NHS, or very difficult to obtain through the NHS?
on a quick flick through it seem to have degenerated into a pros and cons of Proton therapy thread.
one of the posters was suggesting that the kid's doctors had sort or are seeking a legal injunction against the parents to prevent them seeking alternative treatments.
is there ant fact in that? again seems like a ridiculous situation. especially as Proton therapy seems to be a good solution (In my very limited understanding) but not available through the NHS, or very difficult to obtain through the NHS?
TheConverted said:
however they have said he can only be fed via the battery operated tube, yet the parents seem to have a plug in system for the car and the mains?
You'll notice most missing people are in need of vital medication, or abandoned babie's mothers are in urgent need of medical attention.The general public will often need a stick to push them into taking an interest in finding a missing person.
The therapy is a long shot and probably wouldn't help the child. There is no plain evidence that the doctors here are wrong, but similarly no plain evidence that the parents have done anything other than exercise judgment.
On appropriate facts, an NHS Trust could apply to the High Court for an order to override parental wishes, but that hasn't happened here yet, so far as I am aware. It might yet happen, but the child is in Spain at present.
On appropriate facts, an NHS Trust could apply to the High Court for an order to override parental wishes, but that hasn't happened here yet, so far as I am aware. It might yet happen, but the child is in Spain at present.
What I am not sure of is why the arrest warrant / extradition order was issued. If they have committed no crime and broken no laws, which it appears they have, then on what basis was this action taken? The never quoted but often used “we must be seen to be doing something” exemption form normal judicial process?
Jonleeper said:
What I am not sure of is why the arrest warrant / extradition order was issued. If they have committed no crime and broken no laws, which it appears they have, then on what basis was this action taken? The never quoted but often used “we must be seen to be doing something” exemption form normal judicial process?
If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. Unless of course the state wants to stamp it's feet in a fit of pique?I have to say I totally despise the way the media has handled this story, they've rally tried to make hay out of it. On a personal level it's a tragedy for the boy and his parents, but somehow it's ended up the headline story almost everywhere.
Yesterday evening on the BBC website it was the top story, below it was a story 'Ukraine crisis: US senators urge arms 'to fight Russia', something that sent a chill down my spine.
The news agenda really is arse about face.
Yesterday evening on the BBC website it was the top story, below it was a story 'Ukraine crisis: US senators urge arms 'to fight Russia', something that sent a chill down my spine.
The news agenda really is arse about face.
There was a Dr on the TV over the weekend all but called this Proton Beam stuff quackery with unconfirmed efficy. They got the idea off the internet ffs and didn't even discuss it with the Dr or hospital, instead they just disappeared mid treatment. The parent are clutching at straws, which while understandable their actions do seem to have endangered the child by discontinuing his current treatment.
I find their claims pretty unconvincing and irrational, if what they say was true the obvious thing would be to leave him under going conventional treatment while selling the appartment. Something they are not going to do in a weekend in the current Spanish economic situation.
The grand mother is doing more harm than good to their case with her attitide that her son can do no wrong and general bloody mindedness. She admitted refusing to help the Police trace them. I think journalist interviewing here need to start asking her some hard questions instead of just letting her rant.
As to the Police and Hospital I don't see how they had any other option, they do have legal resposibilies to protect the vunerable.
Martin4x4 said:
There was a Dr on the TV over the weekend all but called this Proton Beam stuff quackery with unconfirmed efficy. They got the idea off the internet ffs and didn't even discuss it with the Dr or hospital, instead they just disappeared mid treatment. The parent are clutching at straws, which while understandable their actions do seem to have endangered the child by discontinuing his current treatment.
It's far from quackery. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29002221
Breadvan72 said:
There is a long thread about this in NPE. I think that the arrest was done to save police face and for no other reason. No crime has been committed, and the media furore is a disgrace.
Parents do not own their children, but they have primary decision making responsibility unless and until displaced by a court (where for example they neglect or seek to harm a child). Absent a court order, disagreeing with parental judgment about medical care is no basis for arresting them.
Radio 4 interviewed a Police spokesman this morning and he rebuffed that allegation and said they have obtained two court orders, the second from the high court.Parents do not own their children, but they have primary decision making responsibility unless and until displaced by a court (where for example they neglect or seek to harm a child). Absent a court order, disagreeing with parental judgment about medical care is no basis for arresting them.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Monday 1st September 13:41
Magog said:
I have to say I totally despise the way the media has handled this story, they've rally tried to make hay out of it. On a personal level it's a tragedy for the boy and his parents, but somehow it's ended up the headline story almost everywhere.
Yesterday evening on the BBC website it was the top story, below it was a story 'Ukraine crisis: US senators urge arms 'to fight Russia', something that sent a chill down my spine.
The news agenda really is arse about face.
Couldn't agree more the press are really backward at the moment. Yesterday evening on the BBC website it was the top story, below it was a story 'Ukraine crisis: US senators urge arms 'to fight Russia', something that sent a chill down my spine.
The news agenda really is arse about face.
The Ukraine situation is very concerning. you got to love the US though, its only 'counterproductive' when the Israel's decide to take more land in the west bank. but hell lets arm the Ukraine! Team America, come to save the mother f*****g Day Yeah!
Martin4x4 said:
Radio 4 interviewed a Police spokesman this morning and he rebuffed that allegation and said they have obtained two court orders, the second from the high court.
It was the Hampshire Police & Crime Commissioner who was being interviewed rather than a spokesman. Same thing though, I suppose one might think!
Martin4x4 said:
There was a Dr on the TV over the weekend all but called this Proton Beam stuff quackery with unconfirmed efficy. They got the idea off the internet ffs and didn't even discuss it with the Dr or hospital, instead they just disappeared mid treatment. The parent are clutching at straws, which while understandable their actions do seem to have endangered the child by discontinuing his current treatment.
So much “quakery” that the NHS offers it to some patients but not others and is going to offer it to a much larger selection of patients from 2018 onwards. As I have read it all of the fuss over the current treatment was about the feeding machine which the parents have sorted out very well. So how have they endangered their child? Admittedly the police nor the hospital did not have these facts at the start of the case but now they are known I fail to see where the endangerment is, unless telling a NHS Dr that you want to explore other options is now a crime.Martin4x4 said:
I find their claims pretty unconvincing and irrational, if what they say was true the obvious thing would be to leave him under going conventional treatment while selling the appartment. Something they are not going to do in a weekend in the current Spanish economic situation.
So a parent wanting to do the best for their child is irrational and unconvincing. Great. What if I want to home school my children. It is perfectly legal but I’m sure that you could find a teacher who thinks that doing so is harming my child’s chances of passing exams and thus having a fulfilling career and life. Do you want me arrested as well? After all I have not committed a crime, as here, but have acted against the advice of a “professional”.Martin4x4 said:
The grand mother is doing more harm than good to their case with her attitide that her son can do no wrong and general bloody mindedness. She admitted refusing to help the Police trace them. I think journalist interviewing here need to start asking her some hard questions instead of just letting her rant.
So the police want to arrest someone who hasn’t committed a crime based on a one sided and, it would appear, biased view and when the mother doesn’t actively help you think she is in the wrong. Martin4x4 said:
As to the Police and Hospital I don't see how they had any other option, they do have legal resposibilies to protect the vunerable.
They do but it appears that they chose not to use them in this case. They did not apply to the courts for anything prior to the parent taking their child out, and were so worried that they didn’t even notice for over 6 hours!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff