Discussion
Scuffers said:
not a clue...
just somewhat unimpressed that one can be raised without any charges having been put forward or even any evidence of a crime having been committed.
How can you say that when you don't know what happened at the hospital and the exact circumstances under which the child was taken? just somewhat unimpressed that one can be raised without any charges having been put forward or even any evidence of a crime having been committed.
Of course we may not know all the details but on the face of it you have a child who was taken out of hospital by his parents who clearly have the best of intentions.
So how come the media reports included terms such as "without consent" and "without the permission of" when, as I understand it, they don't need the "consent" or "permissions" of doctors?
I get the "damned if they do damned if they don't" aspect of this in that clearly locating the child was important, but right now things seem to be verging on the vindictive.
So how come the media reports included terms such as "without consent" and "without the permission of" when, as I understand it, they don't need the "consent" or "permissions" of doctors?
I get the "damned if they do damned if they don't" aspect of this in that clearly locating the child was important, but right now things seem to be verging on the vindictive.
Breadvan72 said:
The parents are in prison. In which universe is this in the interests of the child? Every UK public employee and police officer involved in this outrage should be ashamed. I hope the parents sue the Hell out of the lot of them.
How long before some high profile politician gets involved?Or lawyers?
Kind of surprised no.10 not involved at this point...
The parents took the kid abroad with the meds he would be getting in hospital.
They were then planning to get him treatment in Europe which is not available on the NHS.
They are clearly making an example of them to try and prevent anyone else doing the same.
Disgraceful way they have been treated.
But then i'd expect nothing less from the filth that is the British police.
Take your child abroad to get better treatment and you get hunted down.
Abuse 1400 girls in Rotherham and the plod aren't interested.
They were then planning to get him treatment in Europe which is not available on the NHS.
They are clearly making an example of them to try and prevent anyone else doing the same.
Disgraceful way they have been treated.
But then i'd expect nothing less from the filth that is the British police.
Take your child abroad to get better treatment and you get hunted down.
Abuse 1400 girls in Rotherham and the plod aren't interested.
Scuffers said:
Breadvan72 said:
The parents are in prison. In which universe is this in the interests of the child? Every UK public employee and police officer involved in this outrage should be ashamed. I hope the parents sue the Hell out of the lot of them.
How long before some high profile politician gets involved?Or lawyers?
Kind of surprised no.10 not involved at this point...
Been following the story and read this thread with interest as sadly being a lorry driver i don't know the ifs, buts and maybys on the legal side of this case.
It just seems such a disgrace that these parents are now in prison in Madrid whilst their son is in a hospital in Malaga and if the news was right this evening, other family members have been refused entry to visit this boy
How in todays world is any of this right, and as already mentioned, how is this benefiting the young lad or his family?
Where did common sense go, because it seems to be missing right now. It just worries me from my own recent dealings, that certainly the goverment, MPs and the powers that be are the ones that lack the most in common sense and doing what is the right thing on so many levels.
I'm sure those responsible for the farce this has become, and those who could do something about it will all sleep well and comfortable in their own beds tonight, whilst the parents of the young lad will be locked in a Spanish prison cell away from their son who they were trying to do the very best for.
Crazy, and a disgrace.
I'm stagged normally rational are being taken in by the media BS instead of the expert opinion of the Doctors, the Hospital, the Police, the Lawyers and now three judges.
[quote]
What's more, because most proton facilities are in the US, it has been difficult to conduct clinical trials on the therapy because of how the US healthcare system works. Mayles says that because people in US pay for their treatment, patients get to decide what type they would like, so they are unlikely to opt for a randomised clinical trial where they might be given a sham treatment rather than the proton therapy they want. Therefore, the UK has been slow to endorse the treatment. There are still questions about how effective it is, and whether it is better than the cheaper, more conventional treatments available here.
[/quote]
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26131-boost-...
So efficy has not been proven and until a proper trial has been conduced it is quackery even if it looks 'promising'.
The efficacy of the proton treatment isn't the issue. I am no fan of try any old thing medicine, but the issue here is a civil liberties issue. The parents had a difference of opinion with the medics and this has led to an Interpol hunt and the parents being imprisoned. That is a disgrace.
Breadvan72 said:
The efficacy of the proton treatment isn't the issue. I am no fan of try any old thing medicine, but the issue here is a civil liberties issue. The parents had a difference of opinion with the medics and this has led to an Interpol hunt and the parents being imprisoned. That is a disgrace.
Looks like a massive breakdown of trust and communication (for both sides) at the very least. I don't see that the parents being imprisoned helps anyone right now, providing the child is safe and receiving treatment.Martin4x4 said:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26131-boost-...
So efficy has not been proven and until a proper trial has been conduced it is quackery even if it looks 'promising'.
You do realise that the NHS already funds this treatment for some people and that from 2018 the facilities will be available in the UK.So efficy has not been proven and until a proper trial has been conduced it is quackery even if it looks 'promising'.
I don't believe everything the media tells us, anymore than I refuse to believe the waffle and crap that comes out of most mp's mouths.
I refuse to buy newspapers as I don't like the gutter press!
I just don't think this lads parents being in a Spanish prison is of benefit to anyone.
Edited by chilistrucker on Monday 1st September 22:40
Breadvan72 said:
The efficacy of the proton treatment isn't the issue. I am no fan of try any old thing medicine, but the issue here is a civil liberties issue. The parents had a difference of opinion with the medics and this has led to an Interpol hunt and the parents being imprisoned. That is a disgrace.
+1The parents have shown they purchased the correct “food” that the child was being fed on at the hospital........
The parents have shown they purchased the correct feeding pump used to feed the correct food..........
The parents took their own child from a hospital that they felt were not listening to them.
The system from the Southampton General, Hampshire Constabulary, Portsmouth Courts, CPS etc swing into play and now no one appears to be able to halt the thundering juggernaut that wants its pound of flesh.
We now have the parents locked up in jail via the instrument of the European Arrest Warrant hundreds of miles away from their sick child.
As Breadvan has stated, in who’s distorted view of the world is this the outcome that is wanted or warranted…………………..
The parents have shown they purchased the correct feeding pump used to feed the correct food..........
The parents took their own child from a hospital that they felt were not listening to them.
The system from the Southampton General, Hampshire Constabulary, Portsmouth Courts, CPS etc swing into play and now no one appears to be able to halt the thundering juggernaut that wants its pound of flesh.
We now have the parents locked up in jail via the instrument of the European Arrest Warrant hundreds of miles away from their sick child.
As Breadvan has stated, in who’s distorted view of the world is this the outcome that is wanted or warranted…………………..
Although feed supplies differ from Trust to Trust, it is usual to find that feed machines do not differ much with normal operation plugged into the mains and a rechargeable battery back up. How one operates the machines does differ but it's remarkably easy really. You just set the rate per hour and the total feed volume, connect to patient, press start and away it goes.
Assuming the parents have the average smarts, they'll have known the figures for their son from observation and likewise will have worked out how to use the machine even if it differs from the one Southampton used. 150ml/h is a good starting point for an adult, perhaps less for a child. (Basic risk is aspiration of feed).
Spanish mains is pretty well the same as ours, and maybe slightly lower voltage (but not so much as to matter) so if they 'borrowed' the machine from Southampton, all they needed was to procure a lead to plug it in. Chances are the machine end is an IEC socket and loads of things use IEC leads, so it ought to be really easy to procure the right mains lead ready made up.
Many things about the debacle raise all sort of points but before one condemns the doctors at Southampton, they cannot say anything to anyone other than the most veiled comments as to put quite simply, medical confidentiality applies. So we really do not know the full story, nor will we. But I've got my doubts a chargeable offence was committed and so far, the UK seems to be acting in ways we condemn other countries for doing.
Assuming the parents have the average smarts, they'll have known the figures for their son from observation and likewise will have worked out how to use the machine even if it differs from the one Southampton used. 150ml/h is a good starting point for an adult, perhaps less for a child. (Basic risk is aspiration of feed).
Spanish mains is pretty well the same as ours, and maybe slightly lower voltage (but not so much as to matter) so if they 'borrowed' the machine from Southampton, all they needed was to procure a lead to plug it in. Chances are the machine end is an IEC socket and loads of things use IEC leads, so it ought to be really easy to procure the right mains lead ready made up.
Many things about the debacle raise all sort of points but before one condemns the doctors at Southampton, they cannot say anything to anyone other than the most veiled comments as to put quite simply, medical confidentiality applies. So we really do not know the full story, nor will we. But I've got my doubts a chargeable offence was committed and so far, the UK seems to be acting in ways we condemn other countries for doing.
Edited by Slidingpillar on Monday 1st September 23:47
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