Father kills sons mugger

Author
Discussion

ATG

20,552 posts

272 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Nicked phone ... Police not interested... blah blah blah.

A few weeks ago I was mugged and had my phone nicked. No CCTV. No witnesses. Nonetheless based on local knowledge and detective work the muggers were identified and arrested. South east London too, so not as if the Police had nothing else to be doing.

But don't let reality get in the way of criticising the Police and the Courts. The simplistic suggestions for improvements are also fascinating; who'd have thought the solutions to crime were so obvious?

TinyCappo

2,106 posts

153 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
CAPP0 said:
TinyCappo said:
CAPP0 said:
John145 said:
Error of judgement to bring a knife
Would it be correct to ponder that if he hadn't taken his own knife with him, but had somehow disarmed the mugger of the mugger's knife after being stabbed and used that in self-defence, the custodial outcome would have been different?
Not ideal either way. It would remove the pre meditated side of it, as in he left the house with a knife but to disarm and then attack him with it....I think the prosecution could have then said "You had removed the threat by disarming him. To then use his own knife on the mugger would have been interpreted as taking it one step further."
But if he had been stabbed in the eye, then got the knife and killed the mugger, surely that would support a plea of self-defence? IE, having been stabbed once already you feared for your life and used reasonable (in context, under the circumstances) force to prevent yourself from being killed?
In that case half blinded and still capable of disarming then killing the other guy, Yep Id agree I doubt the case would have gone the same way if at all to court. My previous response was without the blinding

fido

16,796 posts

255 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
jjones said:
the father had knowledge that the thief used a knife and so took along one i guess for protection/even the odds.
that's the bit that the law will not look favourably on, except in a defensive situation ..

J4CKO

41,499 posts

200 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Not sure what I would do, it wouldn't be nice, but it wouldn't involve a knife or a confrontation and would happen some time after.

OdramaSwimLaden

1,971 posts

169 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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Lucky it wasn't called a testicle Phone.......

John145

2,447 posts

156 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
OdramaSwimLaden said:
Lucky it wasn't called a testicle Phone.......
Or an iphone imported from Japan.

Pesty

42,655 posts

256 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
This mugger who died had previous violent convictions and used a knife to rob people.

Here is a story of somebody else using a knife to rob somebodies phone. I bet these were not first time crooks either.

So no I have no sympathy for this pos who got killed. The man who list his eye should appeal and use this case as mitigation. Going easy in crime creates these fearless low lives who know they will get a slap on the wrist.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2736746/Gu...

Edited by Pesty on Tuesday 2nd September 19:20

TheLordJohn

5,746 posts

146 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Axionknight said:
Maybe if policing and law enforcement weren't so ineffectual in the UK this chap wouldn't have felt the need to take matters into his own hands.

Ten prior convictions and still up to his usual tricks, it is frankly shameful that despite many prior run ins with the police this chap was still on the streets and continuously allowed to break the law with little or no recourse.
Hear hear.

Chlamydia

1,082 posts

127 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
ATG said:
Nicked phone ... Police not interested... blah blah blah.

A few weeks ago I was mugged and had my phone nicked. No CCTV. No witnesses. Nonetheless based on local knowledge and detective work the muggers were identified and arrested. South east London too, so not as if the Police had nothing else to be doing.

But don't let reality get in the way of criticising the Police and the Courts. The simplistic suggestions for improvements are also fascinating; who'd have thought the solutions to crime were so obvious?
I have no doubt that the police would put the effort in - the courts however I have absolutely no confidence in.

lord trumpton

7,382 posts

126 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Did somebody say 'Eye Phone'? laugh

Adrian W

13,858 posts

228 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
as the dead bloke stabbed the father first surely it is self defence, I'm sure in America that would be the case

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
10 convictions for assualt.
Stab a man in the eye.
Get stabbed to death.
Cry me a fvcking river.
Perhaps if the courts had done their job in the first place?

Pit Pony

8,496 posts

121 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
If someone mugged my son, and I knew who they were, and where they lived, I'd bide my time, and ultimately they'd be part of the foundations of HS2. That's all I'm saying on the matter.

And I wouldn't loose an eye or go to prison.


Or maybe not. Maybe option B.

OllieC

3,816 posts

214 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
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mugger isn't gonna re-offend, job done.

Hope the father gets out soon.

ninja-lewis

4,239 posts

190 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
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V8 Fettler said:
Was there a jury involved in the Scottish High Court? If so, the guilty verdict is surprising (on the information available), assuming the father had a reasonable lawyer. Although a jury wouldn't have access to the real criminal's record during the trial.
Doesn't matter. He pleaded guilty to Culpable Homocide with his sentence discounted from 8 years to 6 years according to sentencing statement.

VeeDubBigBird

440 posts

129 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
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Mens Rea - Criminal Intent
Actus Rea - Criminal Action

The father did both. Because it was not in the heat of the moment, he had time to think about his actions while collecting his sons and a weapon, he's guilty as hell.

What was going to be his resolution if they had encontered a 3rd party who had bought the phone from the mugger, stab or assault them instead?

TheLordJohn

5,746 posts

146 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
VeeDubBigBird said:
What was going to be his resolution if they had encontered a 3rd party who had bought the phone from the mugger, stab or assault them instead?
What if your Grandma had a cock, would she be your Grandad?
Ifs, buts and maybes are ridiculous. Let's just stick with the facts.

lord trumpton

7,382 posts

126 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
TheLordJohn said:
VeeDubBigBird said:
What was going to be his resolution if they had encontered a 3rd party who had bought the phone from the mugger, stab or assault them instead?
What if your Grandma had a cock, would she be your Grandad?
Ifs, buts and maybes are ridiculous. Let's just stick with the facts.
A bit harsh; bad nights sleep?

marksx

5,052 posts

190 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
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Rude-boy said:
To a degree I agree but there are a lot of problems with that law where people like the father have found themselves on 3 strikes in one day. In addition people who were once bad boys then years later find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Regardless we do need to find a way to educate people that if you get caught robbing 5 times or more it isn't really a good career for you...
There should be a 'life license' or freedom license'.

Similar to driving licenses, with points gained for crimes. Different degree of crime, different points. Decided by a judge. Points expire after so many years, gain too many, you're in the slammer.

grumbledoak

31,532 posts

233 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
marksx said:
There should be a 'life license' or freedom license'.
Just double the sentence for each 'previous', they won't reach ten - 2,4,8,16,32...