Children, manners and good habits from an early age...
Discussion
When I was a child, back in 1843 a combination of my Mother's hard work, and diligence from my schoolteachers, ensured that I grew up into what I hope is a polite, fairly well-mannered and rounded adult.
Most importantly, I would like to think that I am proficient at two important standards in life - decent spelling, grammar and punctuation, and possessing good table-manners.
We are all diligent on this forum about our spelling and grammar, and I am very grateful for those high standards.
However, prompted by the 'disgusting eaters' thread, reminded me of something I saw on the news yesterday - which annoyed me at best, and made me gravely sad at worst.
The item I saw was about the new free school meals. All good so far - until they cut to the filming of a dining-hall in a school at lunchtime, with Primary School children of an age I would guess to be around 7 or 8 years old.
I was aghast to see that the majority of the children were eating their lunch in the 'American' style; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand, bereft of a knife in the other hand, shovelling food into their mouths in the manner of a mini-JCB arm.
I don't have children, but I DO have two questions about this behaviour:
One - why the hell are the school and the dinner hall staff allowing children to eat in such a flippant manner, and two - the same question goes for the parents?
If I did have children, they would be taught under pain of death decent table manners from the word go. Similarly, if I worked in a school, I would also make it a condition of meal time to either eat properly, or sacrifice the meal / get some other punishment.
It is simply not good enough (plus insert some usual cliche about how the Country is going to the dogs...)
What do PH parents do about this sort of thing??
Most importantly, I would like to think that I am proficient at two important standards in life - decent spelling, grammar and punctuation, and possessing good table-manners.
We are all diligent on this forum about our spelling and grammar, and I am very grateful for those high standards.
However, prompted by the 'disgusting eaters' thread, reminded me of something I saw on the news yesterday - which annoyed me at best, and made me gravely sad at worst.
The item I saw was about the new free school meals. All good so far - until they cut to the filming of a dining-hall in a school at lunchtime, with Primary School children of an age I would guess to be around 7 or 8 years old.
I was aghast to see that the majority of the children were eating their lunch in the 'American' style; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand, bereft of a knife in the other hand, shovelling food into their mouths in the manner of a mini-JCB arm.
I don't have children, but I DO have two questions about this behaviour:
One - why the hell are the school and the dinner hall staff allowing children to eat in such a flippant manner, and two - the same question goes for the parents?
If I did have children, they would be taught under pain of death decent table manners from the word go. Similarly, if I worked in a school, I would also make it a condition of meal time to either eat properly, or sacrifice the meal / get some other punishment.
It is simply not good enough (plus insert some usual cliche about how the Country is going to the dogs...)
What do PH parents do about this sort of thing??
I am a bit of a stickler for good table manners too but my children and step-children do range in their natural eating habits - some are very good, some are OK and one or two are not very good at all and it's not always age-related.
Our 8 year old keeps using his fingers to pick food up even though we always tell him not to (he is very strong-willed) and one of the older ones does tend to use a fork quite exclusively but she's in her 20's and is -or thinks she is - too old to be corrected. It's not always easy to get them to fall into line, whatever age they may be, but we keep trying.
More importantly though, they are all good, (generally) well-behaved and well-adjusted kids (6 to 24 years old) and I'm happy with that.
Our 8 year old keeps using his fingers to pick food up even though we always tell him not to (he is very strong-willed) and one of the older ones does tend to use a fork quite exclusively but she's in her 20's and is -or thinks she is - too old to be corrected. It's not always easy to get them to fall into line, whatever age they may be, but we keep trying.
More importantly though, they are all good, (generally) well-behaved and well-adjusted kids (6 to 24 years old) and I'm happy with that.
I'm glad Raymond has started a thread about etiquette.
Raymond, as you don't have children but undoubtably are a man of gentlemanlyness, defined by flawless manners and polite masculinity typical of the British gent. I was wondering if you could provide some guidance on the following,
I was recently at a supper with friends and my wife was speaking out of turn, I wasn't sure If I should silence her at the table perhaps with a sharp look or kick under the table or should I wait until we got home?
Also what do other posters do regarding wives who have become slightly drunk and are heading towards social unattractiveness?
Raymond, as you don't have children but undoubtably are a man of gentlemanlyness, defined by flawless manners and polite masculinity typical of the British gent. I was wondering if you could provide some guidance on the following,
I was recently at a supper with friends and my wife was speaking out of turn, I wasn't sure If I should silence her at the table perhaps with a sharp look or kick under the table or should I wait until we got home?
Also what do other posters do regarding wives who have become slightly drunk and are heading towards social unattractiveness?
el stovey said:
I'm glad Raymond has started a thread about etiquette.
Raymond, as you don't have children but undoubtably are a man of gentlemanlyness, defined by flawless manners and polite masculinity typical of the British gent. I was wondering if you could provide some guidance on the following,
I was recently at a supper with friends and my wife was speaking out of turn, I wasn't sure If I should silence her at the table perhaps with a sharp look or kick under the table or should I wait until we got home?
Also what do other posters do regarding wives who have become slightly drunk and are heading towards social unattractiveness?
I gratefully and humbly accept your kind words, sir.Raymond, as you don't have children but undoubtably are a man of gentlemanlyness, defined by flawless manners and polite masculinity typical of the British gent. I was wondering if you could provide some guidance on the following,
I was recently at a supper with friends and my wife was speaking out of turn, I wasn't sure If I should silence her at the table perhaps with a sharp look or kick under the table or should I wait until we got home?
Also what do other posters do regarding wives who have become slightly drunk and are heading towards social unattractiveness?
May I direct you to this short public information film which will perfectly answer your question.
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand,
I use my fork with the dominant hand (with the knife in the left as it happens), what of it?My kids are polite and eat well, as in anything, not fussy. If one of my children wants to use their dominant hand for taking the food from the plate to their mouths, the same as they would do with the soup spoon or dessert spoon so be it. I will not force them to use their non dominant hand just to please people who have the "we have always done that" and "that is how it is to be done" mentality.
If they use their hands, they get a serving spoon on the forehead mind you.
el stovey said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
What do PH parents do about this sort of thing??
I tell my children to hold their cutlery properly. Repeatedly. If they don't do it, I let it go, as for us a meal is a social occasion full of
The oldest, he struggles with cutting, and has a weird way of ripping the meat with fork and knife, but hey, he can cook better than me, and often does, so who cares.
bingybongy said:
Using a fork is fine for certain meals, like curry or chilli etc.
However it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.
I will accept no argument, if you disagree you are wrong.
Although a useful 1st date test as to whether the girl is a roll in the hay or has serious potentialHowever it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.
I will accept no argument, if you disagree you are wrong.
ClaphamGT3 said:
bingybongy said:
Using a fork is fine for certain meals, like curry or chilli etc.
However it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.
I will accept no argument, if you disagree you are wrong.
Although a useful 1st date test as to whether the girl is a roll in the hay or has serious potentialHowever it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.
I will accept no argument, if you disagree you are wrong.
I think in the 'good old days' people didn't have as many distractions as they do now. Kids toys, from a young age, have become a lot more fascinating, not helped by parents buying their children iPods on their 3rd birthdays (I've witnessed it!).
I was saddened today. I witnessed a keen little girl (perhaps, 8 years old?) with her mother in W H Smiths, looking for some pencils.
The beast of a parent, barked at her daughter 'DOWN 'ERE, THEY'RE DOWN 'ERE!' in a tone that suggested she had zero interest and was almost irritated by taking her daughter shopping. To buy...schools supplies. She quickly asked again, 'WELL C'MON, WHAT TYPE WAS IT THEN'
The little girl bent down and picked up a 2B and the little girl then said "and I also need an HB". She correctly pronounced the 'aitch' and also said 'an' not 'a'...to which, of course, the mother responded 'RIGHT THEN, 2B AND HAITCH B, LETS GO'.
Poor kid, I hope the school/s and or any other influences continue to enrich her life as far away from her mums as possible.
I was saddened today. I witnessed a keen little girl (perhaps, 8 years old?) with her mother in W H Smiths, looking for some pencils.
The beast of a parent, barked at her daughter 'DOWN 'ERE, THEY'RE DOWN 'ERE!' in a tone that suggested she had zero interest and was almost irritated by taking her daughter shopping. To buy...schools supplies. She quickly asked again, 'WELL C'MON, WHAT TYPE WAS IT THEN'
The little girl bent down and picked up a 2B and the little girl then said "and I also need an HB". She correctly pronounced the 'aitch' and also said 'an' not 'a'...to which, of course, the mother responded 'RIGHT THEN, 2B AND HAITCH B, LETS GO'.
Poor kid, I hope the school/s and or any other influences continue to enrich her life as far away from her mums as possible.
No child is going to pick up all the 'rules' in one go but yes, it does seem slightly unusual that 7-8 year olds are not using knives. As for the dominant hand, many children haven't developed a strong preference until they are surprisingly old.
We tried to build table manners stage by stage - fingers, then spoon, then the fork, then adding the knife (first to act as a backstop, then as a cutting implement).
Currently trying to get the 4 year old to chew with his mouth closed...with mixed results.
We tried to build table manners stage by stage - fingers, then spoon, then the fork, then adding the knife (first to act as a backstop, then as a cutting implement).
Currently trying to get the 4 year old to chew with his mouth closed...with mixed results.
Edited by Risotto on Tuesday 2nd September 23:11
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