Helmet noise & ear protection

[freddytin]

Cheers Julian , Much happier now .

Maybe I should explain myself , Virtually all noise except the wind turbulence is very muted , i.e. engine tyres, exhaust etc. It's almost as if you are in a tent on a windy moor and all you can hear is the wind howling outside. Personally I feel the helmet shells are transmitting the noise through the plugs ...A little like pressing a glass to the wall to listen in to what the neighbours are saying, and no, I wouldn't dream of it .

By moving my head sideways , or shielding around the chinbar with my gloves ,the noise is virtually eliminated.

I have better than average hearing for my age, tested within 6 months and no symptoms of tinnitus and the like .

Edited to add, ProfP, much preferring your take on the situation. Ta.

Edited by freddytin on Tuesday 30th September 13:59

[julian64]

Prof Prolapse said:

I think it's more likely that the plug is not cancelling out the low frequency noises to the extent as the higher. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but they are designed to do this. You will perceive them as louder because the other noise is reduced. In reality however all noise levels are reduced.

I can't help you specifically as I find it tolerable. But I know you can get "musicians" earplugs which are designed to cut all frequencies evenly so they can still perform. I'm unsure if they are safety rated to the same extent however.

I found a graph. I like graphs.



http://www.etymotic.com/hp/erme.html

I'm not sure a 25db reduction would enough however, as that would take you to about a 105dB limit which is still not quite the upper limit of what you can be exposed to. Worth noting how similar the posh plugs and the cheap foam get as you get more protection as well.

Food for thought.

Edited by Prof Prolapse on Tuesday 30th September 13:52

I think you want to go one further and invent an active noise cancelling system for a helmet. That way you'd even be spared the screeching noise of the brakes on the HGV at full lock up.

[SVS]

julian64 said:

I think you want to go one further and invent an active noise cancelling system for a helmet.

That would be ideal

I'm surprised active noise suppression hasn't been invented for motorcycling already

[Mr2Mike]

freddytin said:

Cheers Julian , Much happier now .

Maybe I should explain myself , Virtually all noise except the wind turbulence is very muted , i.e. engine tyres, exhaust etc. It's almost as if you are in a tent on a windy moor and all you can hear is the wind howling outside. Personally I feel the helmet shells are transmitting the noise through the plugs ...A little like pressing a glass to the wall to listen in to what the neighbours are saying, and no, I wouldn't dream of it .

By moving my head sideways , or shielding around the chinbar with my gloves ,the noise is virtually eliminated.

I have better than average hearing for my age, tested within 6 months and no symptoms of tinnitus and the like .

Edited to add, ProfP, much preferring your take on the situation. Ta.

Edited by freddytin on Tuesday 30th September 13:59

Are you pushing the ear plugs far in enough? If they are sticking out and touching the material inside the helmet they will be very effective at transmitting vibrations from the helmet straight into your ear.

[freddytin]

Mr2Mike said:

Are you pushing the ear plugs far in enough? If they are sticking out and touching the material inside the helmet they will be very effective at transmitting vibrations from the helmet straight into your ear.

I'm guessing probably not, as a rule I can't wear standard ear plug style headphones ( Buds ? ),finding them uncomfortable / falling out.

I've heard good reports for bespoke ear plugs , but not sure I'm ready to invest just yet.

[Tall_Paul]

If they're touching the lining of your helmet they're you're not putting them in right - have a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPNPZJingZA
- you shouldn't be able to see them from the front, if inserted correctly they'll be nowhere near the helmet lining.

[Prof Prolapse]

julian64 said:

I think you want to go one further and invent an active noise cancelling system for a helmet. That way you'd even be spared the screeching noise of the brakes on the HGV at full lock up.

I don't think I understand. The purpose of the technology is to more evenly distribute the frequencies attenuated, so you would hear everything, just not at dangerous levels. That's why it's favoured by musicians who need to hear what everyone is doing. So you would hear much more than conventional ear plugs.

I'm not sure if that was you trying to imply it's a safety risk. Perhaps your way of riding is substantially different to mine, but I rely on observations for hazards particularly on the bike, hearing is irrelevant.

In any case however, if the frequencies could be "levelled out", it would help, not hinder, any rider who likes to "rely on hearing" who also wanted to protect their hearing, as they would not find their hearing biased to a small number of frequencies.

It's just a thought mind. It could be unworkable in practice.

[gwm]

freddytin said:

I'm guessing probably not, as a rule I can't wear standard ear plug style headphones ( Buds ? ),finding them uncomfortable / falling out.

I've heard good reports for bespoke ear plugs , but not sure I'm ready to invest just yet.

Could always give these a go:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Custom-Fit-DIY-Motorcycle-...

I've got them, and if you fit them right then they are good. They are quite "hard" though compared to disposable earplugs so I find them uncomfortable some times.

[MrKipling43]

Prof Prolapse said:

julian64 said:

I think you want to go one further and invent an active noise cancelling system for a helmet. That way you'd even be spared the screeching noise of the brakes on the HGV at full lock up.

I'm not sure if that was you trying to imply it's a safety risk. Perhaps your way of riding is substantially different to mine, but I rely on observations for hazards particularly on the bike, hearing is irrelevant.

I agree... it also occurs to me that if you can hear an HGV locking up, it's probably a bit too late by that point anyway.

[freddytin]

MrKipling43 said:

Prof Prolapse said:

julian64 said:

I think you want to go one further and invent an active noise cancelling system for a helmet. That way you'd even be spared the screeching noise of the brakes on the HGV at full lock up.

I'm not sure if that was you trying to imply it's a safety risk. Perhaps your way of riding is substantially different to mine, but I rely on observations for hazards particularly on the bike, HEARING IS IRRELEVENT.

I agree... it also occurs to me that if you can hear an HGV locking up, it's probably a bit too late by that point anyway.

You have got to be kidding about hearing being irrelevant . .Surely


Edit Thanks TP and GWM for the handy links. I will delay any purchase until NEC bike show.

Edited by freddytin on Wednesday 1st October 16:24

[Prof Prolapse]

freddytin said:

You have got to be kidding about hearing being irrelevant . .Surely

Maybe 'irrelevant' is slightly too strong a word without context, but I cannot think of any instance where my hearing helps my riding in any meaningful way. I guess maybe being more aware of engine revs, but don't think that's really useful in hazard perception.

Plenty of bikers seem to get on fine with music blaring out which must be the closest to being deaf in terms of no awareness of sound.

[julian64]

I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread.

If you get tinitis the NHS is pretty useless. They tell you to stop certain types of tablets but other than that the only thing they have to offer you is tough love or an interference aid.

An interference aid is simply a hearing aid that just plays white noise straight into your ear. I've tried one of these, and strangely the noise is not unlike riding along on a motorcycle with the wind rushing past your head, it has a repetative white noise quality.

I find that fascinating. Wreck your ear drums by motorcycling, then have someone fit you a hearing aid which sounds like your motorcycling.

Medicine is full of logic just like this. Just when you think you've got it licked someone points out these an elephant looking at you.

[freddytin]

Prof Prolapse said:

Maybe 'irrelevant' is slightly too strong a word without context, but I cannot think of any instance where my hearing helps my riding in any meaningful way. I guess maybe being more aware of engine revs, but don't think that's really useful in hazard perception.

Plenty of bikers seem to get on fine with music blaring out which must be the closest to being deaf in terms of no awareness of sound.

Earlier this year I was on the bike in broad daylight along a small road in the North West with not a hazard in sight . Suddenly out of an alley between terraced houses shot a taxi straight across my path. Had I not heard his approach and hit the brakes, he would have without doubt wiped me out .

I truly believe every single sense should be fully deployed if we wish to survive ...Absolutely no use to me having my hearing intact and the rest of my body paralysed

[gwm]

I have ridden my current bike, which has quite a loud exhaust, with and without ear plugs. Ear plugs don't give you silence, just dull the loud noises. To me that's a plus and doesn't mean I can't hear other noises, especially when we're talking probably loud ones like HGV brakes squealing, sirens, etc.

[SVS]

freddytin, if you wear ear plugs that have a noise filter in them, they will filter out the damaging high frequencies (i.e. wind noise) whilst letting you hear traffic sounds. What's more, you can hear important noises (e.g. the taxi in your example) more clearly with ear plugs like this, because your hearing isn't dulled by exposure to wind noise.

Like gwm, however, I can hear traffic quite clearly, even through cheap foam plugs.

[black-k1]

freddytin said:

Earlier this year I was on the bike in broad daylight along a small road in the North West with not a hazard in sight . Suddenly out of an alley between terraced houses shot a taxi straight across my path. Had I not heard his approach and hit the brakes, he would have without doubt wiped me out .

I truly believe every single sense should be fully deployed if we wish to survive ...Absolutely no use to me having my hearing intact and the rest of my body paralysed

While I don't disagree with you, I think you are trying to look at it as a black and white situation where it most certainly isn't.

Firstly, do you really believe that a deaf person can not ride a motorcycle (or drive a car or any other vehicle) safely on the road?

Secondly, as has been said, ear plugs don't stop all the noise and make it silent, they only reduce the noise levels, particularly for the more damaging frequencies. While I don't want to tempt fate, I've been riding with ear plugs for the last 20 years and I don't feel there are any associated road safety concerns. I still hear sirens, car horns, engine noises etc. from other vehicles.

Lastly, if you ride without ear plugs for long enough you'll likely be able to answer my first point from personal experience.

Read this thread and count how many of the respondents are clear that riding a motorcycle without ear plugs has permanently damaged their hearing. Do you want to be in that group in a few years time?

[Mr2Mike]

freddytin said:

Earlier this year I was on the bike in broad daylight along a small road in the North West with not a hazard in sight . Suddenly out of an alley between terraced houses shot a taxi straight across my path. Had I not heard his approach and hit the brakes, he would have without doubt wiped me out .

I truly believe every single sense should be fully deployed if we wish to survive ...Absolutely no use to me having my hearing intact and the rest of my body paralysed

So are you simply going to stop riding when your hearing is damaged?

[freddytin]

black-k1 said:

While I don't disagree with you, I think you are trying to look at it as a black and white situation where it most certainly isn't.

Firstly, do you really believe that a deaf person can not ride a motorcycle (or drive a car or any other vehicle) safely on the road?

Secondly, as has been said, ear plugs don't stop all the noise and make it silent, they only reduce the noise levels, particularly for the more damaging frequencies. While I don't want to tempt fate, I've been riding with ear plugs for the last 20 years and I don't feel there are any associated road safety concerns. I still hear sirens, car horns, engine noises etc. from other vehicles.

Lastly, if you ride without ear plugs for long enough you'll likely be able to answer my first point from personal experience.

Read this thread and count how many of the respondents are clear that riding a motorcycle without ear plugs has permanently damaged their hearing. Do you want to be in that group in a few years time?

Please bear with me ,after many , many years of enjoyable motorcycling without ear plugs these things take a little getting used to.
As stated , I will be trying the various products out there to see which best suits my tiny lug hole canals and I appreciate the advice and experiences from all.

Now to address one or two of Mr K1s raised points.
Do I believe a deaf person can't ride ? No, not at all, But I'm sure they will have to be a little more cautious to be safe.

Secondly, I have no doubt you can hear sirens , horns etc and you are quite happy and comfortable wearing ear plugs. My concerns are over the sounds ear plugs seem to mute completely, which remove part of the " thrill " , and a level of safety. My initial feelings are they are ideal for M way / A road usage , but as yet I'm not wholly convinced of town / b road usage.

Lastly, No I don't want to inflict any damage on any one of my senses...Aging doesn't require a helping hand from me and I'm willing to take any sensible precaution to keep it that way

I have skimmed the thread , and yes clearly many riders out there are having issues. I am not in denial, and yes you can teach an old dog new tricks

[Prof Prolapse]

You seem a very humble man Freddy. You're far too nice to be here.

[ChocolateFrog]

Bought a Schuberth helmet specifically because they seemed to be the only manufacturer claiming to reduce the noise level.

Those combined with moulded earplugs and i shouldn't have any problems.

Riding without now feels odd.