Starting with IAM
Discussion
R_U_LOCAL said:
Bgol is brake-gear overlap.
Seperation is when your wife leaves you because you've been practicing your commentary during lovemaking.
Thanks. The wife is too busy watching her ipad during lovemaking to notice my commentary. Seperation is when your wife leaves you because you've been practicing your commentary during lovemaking.
I've spent all night reading about BGOL. This is entirely new on me. I got through the entire RoSPA tuition and bike test and nobody mentioned it. I've also looked up the Police RIDERS Handbook and it specifically mentions overlapping braking and gear changes in normal riding.
creampuff said:
Thanks. The wife is too busy watching her ipad during lovemaking to notice my commentary.
I've spent all night reading about BGOL. This is entirely new on me. I got through the entire RoSPA tuition and bike test and nobody mentioned it. I've also looked up the Police RIDERS Handbook and it specifically mentions overlapping braking and gear changes in normal riding.
It is a something that has become a "Pillar of Wisdom" (or point of dogma) in the "Advanced Car Driving community".I've spent all night reading about BGOL. This is entirely new on me. I got through the entire RoSPA tuition and bike test and nobody mentioned it. I've also looked up the Police RIDERS Handbook and it specifically mentions overlapping braking and gear changes in normal riding.
creampuff said:
I've also looked up the Police RIDERS Handbook and it specifically mentions overlapping braking and gear changes in normal riding.
BGOL isn't an issue on the bike. Both Motorcycle Roadcraft and How to Be a Better Rider advocate BGOL, including explaining how and when to overlap. Hence it seems odd why it's become such a big deal to some that BGOL is avoided when driving a car.SVS said:
BGOL isn't an issue on the bike. Both Motorcycle Roadcraft and How to Be a Better Rider advocate BGOL, including explaining how and when to overlap. Hence it seems odd why it's become such a big deal to some that BGOL is avoided when driving a car.
I might try out >separation< and >no BGOL< in the car (although my car is a paddle shift automatic diesel). But when I was reading up on it, it seems like it actually makes you slower. Police, even when they use it in normal driving, don't use it in pursuit driving. Going slow can't be good can it?!?!?
The other thing which I read about last night, while researching BGOL, was "pretend you have a fishbowl full of water on your passengers lap and advanced drivers should not spill it".
Unf, my fishbowl of water would be all over the car; my speed through bends have actually got higher since I started using the System. Infact once I went supermarket shopping and bought some watermelon, which I put in the boot of the car. Unf on the way home, the fact I had supermarket shopping and a watermelon in the boot slipped my mind and I gave it a bit of stick around some bends. I came home to a boot full of smashed up watermelon.
waterwonder said:
We did have a minor disagreement about indicating on a roundabout which i'm still unsure about. Having entered a roundabout at 6 o'clock i indicated right until i had passed the exit at 12 o'clock. I then began indicating left to exit at about 2 o'clock. All exits/entrances were two lanes so it is quite a big'un.
Mike's observation was that i begun indicating left too early, and that I should only be indicating left once i'd passed traffic coming onto the roundabout. In other words in this instance indicating left should only be for the traffic coming on at 2 o'clock.
I would agree with this in general but my rationale was that the traffic entering at 12 o'clock were creepers, therefore having past the exit at 12 o'clock i was trying to make it clear that i would be 'cutting' across the creepers path to make my exit. Had i continued to indicate right for longer i think they would have crept more increasing the chance of collision.
Anyway it matters not but it was good to discuss our contrasting points of view. I think we agreed to disagree in the end
.
I think he was wrong Mike's observation was that i begun indicating left too early, and that I should only be indicating left once i'd passed traffic coming onto the roundabout. In other words in this instance indicating left should only be for the traffic coming on at 2 o'clock.
I would agree with this in general but my rationale was that the traffic entering at 12 o'clock were creepers, therefore having past the exit at 12 o'clock i was trying to make it clear that i would be 'cutting' across the creepers path to make my exit. Had i continued to indicate right for longer i think they would have crept more increasing the chance of collision.
Anyway it matters not but it was good to discuss our contrasting points of view. I think we agreed to disagree in the end
. the purpose of indicating is simply to help other drivers be aware of your moves / intentions etc.I can understand why he held his view - your leaving at 2 o'clock means that those coming on at 2 o'clock are the cars who need to know you are exiting as they can then make progress and join the roundabout... however there is a flaw...
On a large roundabout it may well be possible for cars to join and exit in parallel to you
- you come on at 6 and leave at 2
- you are in the inner lane until after 12 when you move over to the outer lane to exit at 2
- I am waiting at 9 and see you approaching me in the inner lane and indicating right
- I come on at 9 and exit at 12, I can do that in the outer lane alongside you without any issue...
- Therefore cars can come on and off a roundabout while you are there...
- the cars waiting at 12 and seeing you still indicating right might assume at that point that you are leaving back at 6, staying in the inner lane - and therefore they can join at 12 and leave at 2 without upsetting you...
- it is important therefore that you communicate to those coming on at 12 your intention to leave at 2 and as you start to move across before exiting, indicating left to them after the 12 exit, so that it is clear you don't mean exit at 12, makes sense...
When I did my AD I was taught that you indicate right while you still have more than 180deg of the roundabout / stop indicating then / start indicating left as you pass the exit prior to yours...
So, on that basis you were correct...
All of that of course is based on it being a roundabout sufficiently large enough to have several cars on it at once - doesn't work on a mini roundabout!
And some roundabouts have spiralled lanes, which add other complications...
akirk said:
When I did my AD I was taught that .....
..... you think before giving information, and that you give information as helpfully as possible.This is one of the many cases where 'it depends'. As an IAM Observer, if an Associate asks me if I agree with a decision they have taken about whether or when to indicate, it is generally in a case where there is no clear cut best answer, and I tell them that the fact that they have thought about it is what matters. Same here.
johnao said:
waterwonder said:
Mike's observation was that i begun indicating left too early, and that I should only be indicating left once i'd passed traffic coming onto the roundabout. In other words in this instance indicating left should only be for the traffic coming on at 2 o'clock.
Next time you meet: ask Mike for his thoughts on... "only indicate if, in your opinion, another road user would benefit" This simple principle should cover all signalling considerations.
Edited by johnao on Sunday 21st September 08:46
Given a good number of ordinary drivers will only think to indicate in presence of plod/panic/nagging wife etc, some reasonable amount of excess signalling isn't the worst thing, though it would doubtless be decried by some.
Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff