Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
DSLiverpool said:
Imagine if England had a vote to tell Scotland to sod off - I don't think they would be as cuddly and warm as the English are being over it.
If we had a vote they'd be clamouring to stay, bleating about being victims and how the nasty English were kicking them out of the union...johnnywb said:
Can anyone tell me why Croatia still uses the Kuna and not the Euro?
I have a yes supporter using it as an example to show they won't need to use it.
Thanks
Its to do with the fact that they dont meet the euro requirements to use the euro or they have opted out like the uk. Scotland does not have ITS OWN currency if a yes vote. so cant join the euro.I have a yes supporter using it as an example to show they won't need to use it.
Thanks
rich1231 said:
At some point one of the protection team is going to have had enough of this which could get quite interesting. johnnywb said:
Can anyone tell me why Croatia still uses the Kuna and not the Euro?
I have a yes supporter using it as an example to show they won't need to use it.
Thanks
Its to do with the fact that they dont meet the euro requirements to use the euro or they have opted out like the uk. Scotland does not have ITS OWN currency if a yes vote. so cant join the euro.I have a yes supporter using it as an example to show they won't need to use it.
Thanks
I would still much rather we had a No vote, but I agree with this /\/\/\
There are all sorts of issues which have now been raised.
I know a few people who have already sold up and left.
What major company is going to base itself in Scotland after this carry on, and the prospect of the same again? If the Scottish economy dips, hardly surprising after this tartan commy-fest, Westminster will get the blame.
Salmond has stirred up a load of fanatics, mixed in with a generous helping of Trots who see their chance. Will the nutters accept a No vote and shut up, or are we in for a rerun of the Scottish Liberation Army?
More devo will just accelerate another referendum, even if that is 25 years down the road. We should not be encouraging a load of chip-on-shoulder lefties. Anything Gordon Brown suggests is bound to be rubbish.
We need to shake up Westminster and start promoting Great Britain as if we meant it, to take the initiative away from the SNP. Start by rebuilding the armed services. The Conservatives have chopped as many of the old Scottish regiments as Labour. Its time to redress the balance.
We are not all Braveheart f
kwits. Remember it only takes a small but determined group to create this impression of lunatic England-haters. That is how political extremists have always worked - push people to extremes and try to take advantage of the results. Unfortunately some people who should know better have allowed such attitudes to become acceptable. Even so, there are still a lot of solid decent supporters of the UK in Scotland. I hope there are going to be enough to carry the day on Thursday. At least we are going to see what Scotland is made of at long last.
There are all sorts of issues which have now been raised.
I know a few people who have already sold up and left.
What major company is going to base itself in Scotland after this carry on, and the prospect of the same again? If the Scottish economy dips, hardly surprising after this tartan commy-fest, Westminster will get the blame.
Salmond has stirred up a load of fanatics, mixed in with a generous helping of Trots who see their chance. Will the nutters accept a No vote and shut up, or are we in for a rerun of the Scottish Liberation Army?
More devo will just accelerate another referendum, even if that is 25 years down the road. We should not be encouraging a load of chip-on-shoulder lefties. Anything Gordon Brown suggests is bound to be rubbish.
We need to shake up Westminster and start promoting Great Britain as if we meant it, to take the initiative away from the SNP. Start by rebuilding the armed services. The Conservatives have chopped as many of the old Scottish regiments as Labour. Its time to redress the balance.
We are not all Braveheart f
kwits. Remember it only takes a small but determined group to create this impression of lunatic England-haters. That is how political extremists have always worked - push people to extremes and try to take advantage of the results. Unfortunately some people who should know better have allowed such attitudes to become acceptable. Even so, there are still a lot of solid decent supporters of the UK in Scotland. I hope there are going to be enough to carry the day on Thursday. At least we are going to see what Scotland is made of at long last.Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 16th September 19:12
Didn't alot of businesses fk off from Quebec after their 1995 referendum, and relocate to other parts of Canada based on the uncertainty that more referendums would occur until the yesser's eventually got their way?
Either way I agree, whichever way the vote goes, people's foot's have been well and truely shot, one way or another.
k off from Quebec after their 1995 referendum, and relocate to other parts of Canada based on the uncertainty that more referendums would occur until the yesser's eventually got their way?Either way I agree, whichever way the vote goes, people's foot's have been well and truely shot, one way or another.
I know some of what I say bellow has been said many times before, but still wanted to stick my couple of groats in...
Have been following the debate loosely over the past volumes of this subject over the years and never imagined it would come to this. Used to love visiting Scotland and my memories are all good ones with nothing but a warm welcome, but it seems a lot of the inhabitants have changed.... and for the worse. It seems an old Scots friend of mine is a yes-er on Facebook. Kinda makes sense as he was apparently the cause of a bankrupt partnership and the last work I helped him out with was never paid for. Guess he went to the same school of economics as that moron Salmond, buy now, don't pay anything later...!
Having done my family tree a couple of years ago it seems for the last two hundred years my ancestors have been all English, although my great grandmother had a welsh name, I had ginger in my beard when younger and my grandfather was ginger, so feel I have some ancient Briton in there somewhere, although as Derek has mentioned, red hair is from the Norse, whether my red hair came via a bloodline from Scotland, the Normans or directly from the Vikings, who knows...
Nevertheless, I'm proud to be both English and British. The cultures and customs of other countries in the British isles have had a great influence on my life. Not sure why we hear the term racism with regard to English or Scottish so much, as I guess most indigenous Caucasians of the British Isles are all broadly Northern European/Scandinavian in origin.
As someone who lives in the south east, I am geographically much closer to France, yet, as much as I like France (and most other countries), I don't feel that I have a cultural connection with the French. However, I do feel that connection to Scotland, Wales and Ireland. We all speak the one common language (amongst others) and share some great history, not all of it good I grant, but not that bad either. More than a 100 years before the Union, even Shakespeare wrote about an Englishman, Irishman Scotsman and a Welshman in Henry V. We share a common history and I would personally be sad to see the union break up.
So fine, they want independence from this union.... only to want to then go and join another union! Brussels and Berlin were even further away than Westminster last time I looked at the map! How the fk is leaving one union, to join another one, with a different currency (which you will be obliged to join... If they let you in?), have less control over it and even more laws and regulations (which you are currently opted out from some), be independent? I understand the romantic notion of wanting independence, but am really struggling to understand why half, nearly half, or possibly more than half, are so thick as not to understand the what's at stake. Talk about turkey's voting for Christmas, or cutting your nose off to spite your own face! Thank god I don't live in Scotland! I really feel sorry for the prospects of no voters, but am sure there will be a warm welcome for their businesses and industry elsewhere in the union.
I have always known there to be a hardcore anti English sentiment with some of the Scots, but usually associate it with knuckle dragging football supporter types who would support anyone who played against the English. I know all the yes-ers aren’t shouty types, but there seem to be an awful lot! Nevertheless, I hadn't expected there to be possibly half to be for independence. I'm sure my grandfather and his best mate, a Scot, who both saw action in the English Channel on D-Day, are rolling about in their graves. Those Scots who’d rather turn their back on a 300 year successful union, only to lick the sweaty arse crack of the EU, they are the traitors to half their fellow Scots and to the rest of us in the United Kingdom and I'm sure it won’t be forgotten when it comes to various aspects of life and business from now on.
But this is democracy, if it goes yes, then fine, just don't let the door slap your arse on the way out! Like most of the posters on here, it's obvious what damage has already been done, no or yes, but if goes yes, I can see advantages for rUK (perhaps we can also keep British, or what ever we'd call it, summertime all year?) and nothing but disadvantages for Scotland (but at least you'll be freeee
). If you want to commit economic suicide, then good luck, you'll need it. I think there's no reason why an independent Scotland couldn't work, but with those odious waste of blood and organs SNP politicians in charge (the nasty vitriol and bile from the SNP is disgusting), your economy will likely flush down the pan quicker than a greased turd! Your make your own bed, so will have to lay in it. So by all means, vote yes just to prove the rest of us wrong, either way, it won’t make any difference to me.
It’s a bit like trying to talk someone from jumping off a cliff… who’s handcuffed to someone else who doesn't want to jump…. Anyway, well done all you nat's for pissing off half the people in Scotland and I suspect a hell of a lot more in the rest of the UK, no, really, great job....
Have been following the debate loosely over the past volumes of this subject over the years and never imagined it would come to this. Used to love visiting Scotland and my memories are all good ones with nothing but a warm welcome, but it seems a lot of the inhabitants have changed.... and for the worse. It seems an old Scots friend of mine is a yes-er on Facebook. Kinda makes sense as he was apparently the cause of a bankrupt partnership and the last work I helped him out with was never paid for. Guess he went to the same school of economics as that moron Salmond, buy now, don't pay anything later...!
Having done my family tree a couple of years ago it seems for the last two hundred years my ancestors have been all English, although my great grandmother had a welsh name, I had ginger in my beard when younger and my grandfather was ginger, so feel I have some ancient Briton in there somewhere, although as Derek has mentioned, red hair is from the Norse, whether my red hair came via a bloodline from Scotland, the Normans or directly from the Vikings, who knows...
Nevertheless, I'm proud to be both English and British. The cultures and customs of other countries in the British isles have had a great influence on my life. Not sure why we hear the term racism with regard to English or Scottish so much, as I guess most indigenous Caucasians of the British Isles are all broadly Northern European/Scandinavian in origin.
As someone who lives in the south east, I am geographically much closer to France, yet, as much as I like France (and most other countries), I don't feel that I have a cultural connection with the French. However, I do feel that connection to Scotland, Wales and Ireland. We all speak the one common language (amongst others) and share some great history, not all of it good I grant, but not that bad either. More than a 100 years before the Union, even Shakespeare wrote about an Englishman, Irishman Scotsman and a Welshman in Henry V. We share a common history and I would personally be sad to see the union break up.
So fine, they want independence from this union.... only to want to then go and join another union! Brussels and Berlin were even further away than Westminster last time I looked at the map! How the f
k is leaving one union, to join another one, with a different currency (which you will be obliged to join... If they let you in?), have less control over it and even more laws and regulations (which you are currently opted out from some), be independent? I understand the romantic notion of wanting independence, but am really struggling to understand why half, nearly half, or possibly more than half, are so thick as not to understand the what's at stake. Talk about turkey's voting for Christmas, or cutting your nose off to spite your own face! Thank god I don't live in Scotland! I really feel sorry for the prospects of no voters, but am sure there will be a warm welcome for their businesses and industry elsewhere in the union. I have always known there to be a hardcore anti English sentiment with some of the Scots, but usually associate it with knuckle dragging football supporter types who would support anyone who played against the English. I know all the yes-ers aren’t shouty types, but there seem to be an awful lot! Nevertheless, I hadn't expected there to be possibly half to be for independence. I'm sure my grandfather and his best mate, a Scot, who both saw action in the English Channel on D-Day, are rolling about in their graves. Those Scots who’d rather turn their back on a 300 year successful union, only to lick the sweaty arse crack of the EU, they are the traitors to half their fellow Scots and to the rest of us in the United Kingdom and I'm sure it won’t be forgotten when it comes to various aspects of life and business from now on.
But this is democracy, if it goes yes, then fine, just don't let the door slap your arse on the way out! Like most of the posters on here, it's obvious what damage has already been done, no or yes, but if goes yes, I can see advantages for rUK (perhaps we can also keep British, or what ever we'd call it, summertime all year?) and nothing but disadvantages for Scotland (but at least you'll be freeee
). If you want to commit economic suicide, then good luck, you'll need it. I think there's no reason why an independent Scotland couldn't work, but with those odious waste of blood and organs SNP politicians in charge (the nasty vitriol and bile from the SNP is disgusting), your economy will likely flush down the pan quicker than a greased turd! Your make your own bed, so will have to lay in it. So by all means, vote yes just to prove the rest of us wrong, either way, it won’t make any difference to me.It’s a bit like trying to talk someone from jumping off a cliff… who’s handcuffed to someone else who doesn't want to jump…. Anyway, well done all you nat's for pissing off half the people in Scotland and I suspect a hell of a lot more in the rest of the UK, no, really, great job....
cardigankid said:
We are not all Braveheart fkwits. remember is only takes a small but determined group to create this impression of lunatic England-haters. That is how political extremists have always worked - push people to extremes and try to take advantage of the results. Unfortunately some people who should know better have allowed such attitudes to become acceptable. Even so, there are still a lot of solid decent supporters of the UK in Scotland. I hope there are going to be enough to carry the day on Thursday. At least we are going to see what Scotland is made of at long last.
Assuming a No vote, if there is going to be any healing its going to need to be led by those that you describe asserting themselves and dealing with the more rabid morons yourselves...kwits. remember is only takes a small but determined group to create this impression of lunatic England-haters. That is how political extremists have always worked - push people to extremes and try to take advantage of the results. Unfortunately some people who should know better have allowed such attitudes to become acceptable. Even so, there are still a lot of solid decent supporters of the UK in Scotland. I hope there are going to be enough to carry the day on Thursday. At least we are going to see what Scotland is made of at long last.alock said:
Troubleatmill said:
alock said:
Is this true? Are new EU members required to have VAT on everything?
Google it yourself. Start with. SCOTLAND EU VAT CHILDREN CLOTHES
Read the articles. The EU has made this point very clear.
Only the UK and ROI have managed to negotiate zero rates of vat.
Prices in iScotland are going up.
I suppose it's the first time I've realised how easy it is to miss something so important and am therefore assuming many voters will be basing their decision on partial information without realising.
If this is the case and EU membership requires a flat rate of VAT, children's clothes are the least of your worries.
Food is zero-rated, domestic fuel is rated at 5%. Other than your mortgage, the two biggest cost-drivers of most people's personal budget will go up in price.
My heart says YES, my head says NO.
I'd like a NO decision, see what Westminster comes up with and choose again in 25 years time. Perhaps the YES campaign can produce enough reasons for my head to say YES by then.
I wonder how close we are to the below applying, and if so, whether any action will be taken?
Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 (asp 14) Schedule 7—Offences
Undue influence
11(1) A person (“A”) commits the offence of undue influence in connection with the referendum if—
(a) A makes use of or threatens to make use of any force, violence or restraint, or inflicts or threatens to inflict, personally or by any other person, any temporal or spiritual injury, damage, harm or loss upon or against any person in order to induce or compel that person to vote or refrain from voting in the referendum, or on account of that person having voted or refrained from voting, in the referendum, or
(b) by abduction, duress or any fraudulent device or contrivance, A impedes or prevents, or intends to impede or prevent, the free exercise of the franchise of a voter or proxy for a voter in the referendum, or so compels, induces or prevails upon, or intends so to compel, induce or prevail upon, a voter or proxy for a voter either to vote or to refrain from voting in the referendum.
(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(a) applies regardless of whether an act is done—
(a) directly or indirectly,
(b) by the person or by another person on the person’s behalf.
(3) A person commits a corrupt practice if the person commits the offence of undue influence in connection with the referendum.
Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 (asp 14) Schedule 7—Offences
Undue influence
11(1) A person (“A”) commits the offence of undue influence in connection with the referendum if—
(a) A makes use of or threatens to make use of any force, violence or restraint, or inflicts or threatens to inflict, personally or by any other person, any temporal or spiritual injury, damage, harm or loss upon or against any person in order to induce or compel that person to vote or refrain from voting in the referendum, or on account of that person having voted or refrained from voting, in the referendum, or
(b) by abduction, duress or any fraudulent device or contrivance, A impedes or prevents, or intends to impede or prevent, the free exercise of the franchise of a voter or proxy for a voter in the referendum, or so compels, induces or prevails upon, or intends so to compel, induce or prevail upon, a voter or proxy for a voter either to vote or to refrain from voting in the referendum.
(2) Sub-paragraph (1)(a) applies regardless of whether an act is done—
(a) directly or indirectly,
(b) by the person or by another person on the person’s behalf.
(3) A person commits a corrupt practice if the person commits the offence of undue influence in connection with the referendum.
pingu393 said:
alock said:
Troubleatmill said:
alock said:
Is this true? Are new EU members required to have VAT on everything?
Google it yourself. Start with. SCOTLAND EU VAT CHILDREN CLOTHES
Read the articles. The EU has made this point very clear.
Only the UK and ROI have managed to negotiate zero rates of vat.
Prices in iScotland are going up.
I suppose it's the first time I've realised how easy it is to miss something so important and am therefore assuming many voters will be basing their decision on partial information without realising.
If this is the case and EU membership requires a flat rate of VAT, children's clothes are the least of your worries.
Food is zero-rated, domestic fuel is rated at 5%. Other than your mortgage, the two biggest cost-drivers of most people's personal budget will go up in price.
My heart says YES, my head says NO.
I'd like a NO decision, see what Westminster comes up with and choose again in 25 years time. Perhaps the YES campaign can produce enough reasons for my head to say YES by then.
Please vote yes this time then.
Was out a bike ride and spotted a good load of these through Motherwell, as well as the normal No signs on loads of lamp posts that I'd mentioned the other night.
Seen a few people over the last two days with No t-shirts and stuff, including one brave lone man today outside Maryhill Tesco as I drove by waving no flag and handing out stuff next to all the same yes people who have had what looks like a semi permanent stall there for weeks. He got a thumbs up from me anyway!
Seen a few people over the last two days with No t-shirts and stuff, including one brave lone man today outside Maryhill Tesco as I drove by waving no flag and handing out stuff next to all the same yes people who have had what looks like a semi permanent stall there for weeks. He got a thumbs up from me anyway!
Troubleatmill said:
Is there anywhere that tells you what the base rate would be, or is that by negotiation? After all, if Alex manages to negotiate a VAT base rate of 5%, then having no sub-rates wouldn't be such a bad thing.Troubleatmill said:
Nothing particularly grim about it. Luxembourg has a standard rate of 15% so much better than the UK's 20%. It's the overall level of taxation that counts. pingu393 said:
Is there anywhere that tells you what the base rate would be, or is that by negotiation? After all, if Alex manages to negotiate a VAT base rate of 5%, then having no sub-rates wouldn't be such a bad thing.
He might negotiate one of 5% bit there's no way of affording it. When you are fielding a massive deficit you can't cut vat to a quarter.plasticpig said:
Troubleatmill said:
Nothing particularly grim about it. Luxembourg has a standard rate of 15% so much better than the UK's 20%. It's the overall level of taxation that counts. Now... do you think Alex is going to be able to retain 0% for all of that? I'd wager he wouldn't get close.
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