Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[anonymous-user]

Strocky said:

Thanks for the reply, some decent points even though I disagree with most of them and a very English polite fk off at the end

Edited by Strocky on Friday 17th April 10:29

Yep, fk off. You lot deserve it. It's far less harsh language than half the ste you fking nat nesbits were screaming, red-faced and spit-spraying in the streets of glasgae at anyone who dared speak out against independence.

[McWigglebum4th]

OpulentBob said:

Yep, fk off. You lot deserve it. It's far less harsh language than half the ste you fking nat nesbits were screaming, red-faced and spit-spraying in the streets of glasgae at anyone who dared speak out against independence.

I wish glasgow would declare independence and become a communist state

Then we can ship all the YES voters to live there in paradise while us baby raping english tory traitor scum can carry on living away from paradise being oppressed by having a job.

[AstonZagato]

Having watched bits of the debate last night, I am now very sure Sturgeon wants a Tory government.

Victim card will be clasped proudly to the chest, SNP MPs will make pointless soundbites in Westminster bewailing the fate imposed on downtrodden Scots. It's the SNP wet dream.

On the other hand, a Labour/SNP coalition/power-share would be a fricking disaster for the SNP. They'd actually have to try to deliver some of their barking promises and wouldn't be able to blame the Tories/Westminster/English. They'd do a Lib-Dems and implode.

[simoid]

AstonZagato said:

Having watched bits of the debate last night, I am now very sure Sturgeon wants a Tory government.

Victim card will be clasped proudly to the chest, SNP MPs will make pointless soundbites in Westminster bewailing the fate imposed on downtrodden Scots. It's the SNP wet dream.

On the other hand, a Labour/SNP coalition/power-share would be a fricking disaster for the SNP. They'd actually have to try to deliver some of their barking promises and wouldn't be able to blame the Tories/Westminster/English. They'd do a Lib-Dems and implode.

I happen to think that, in terms of electorate expectation and reality, the last government has perhaps had the toughest challenges in history. Personally my politically aware days have been spent under a labour government which has ridden the crest of an economic wave, and still borrowed.

In a similar way to the SNP wanting a Tory government, I think I also would perversely see some positives in a Labour SNP coalition:

- no more moaning about Tory policies
- they'd have an awareness of what it means to control more than spending
- The 45 would feel more represented at UK level

I must say, however, I'm quite impressed with the Tories as they seem to be the only party trying to be inclusive of everyone, and not pitting their target voters AGAINST an enemy. IE labour vs the rich, SNP vs everyone else, UKIP vs immigrants and Europe.

Edited by simoid on Friday 17th April 12:05

[MintyScot]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...

"Unemployment in Scotland rose by 9,000 in the three months to February and now stands at 167,000, according to official statistics."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32348353

"UK unemployment has fallen to its lowest rate since July 2008, official figures have shown."

Proof that the SNP is failing Scotland and that the ongoing political uncertainty of an SNP government and potential further referendums causing issues?

[McWigglebum4th]

MintyScot said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...

"Unemployment in Scotland rose by 9,000 in the three months to February and now stands at 167,000, according to official statistics."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32348353

"UK unemployment has fallen to its lowest rate since July 2008, official figures have shown."

Proof that the SNP is failing Scotland and that the ongoing political uncertainty of an SNP government and potential further referendums causing issues?

Those bd english making >insert problem here< it will be far better once we are independent

[RandomTask]

Welshbeef said:

Did the SNP actually vote FOR rUK to have tuition fees while voting for and giving ZERO tuition fees in Scotland?

No, all SNP MP's voted against the rise:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/...

[Ridgemont]

strocky said:

Yep it was a bit of a mess of contradictory quotes, letters and each side taking what they wanted out of anything of substance. What would have killed it stone dead was the UK government formally asking the EU the definitive question, they didn't (for whatever reason) therefore it was left to be an ambiguous mess.

No. It wasn't ambiguous. As Wiggles points out, the question was asked. The EU responded formally. The SNP ignored the answer. And I reiterate the point from my original response: the tactic of just ignoring or passing the monkey onto someone-elses back was quite deliberate and intended to muffle and obfuscate tricky issues for the SNP. I'll return to the point below, but the voting public weren't dumb. It undoubtedly was one of the reasons for many voting no. And it doesn't really matter if Sturgeon gets the UK gov to sign a repeat of the 2012 Edinburgh agreement and we have to go through this divisive ststorm again, because unless the SNP acknowledge and address the issue here, then the neverendum will continually deliver the same result, just with added grievance.

strocky said:

Currency became a political football during the referendum, both sides dug in (rUK said no CU, YES said then no debt share, rUK countered try getting a loan then, iS said debt free country would have banks happy to lend) an IS would have a currency that could be traded internationally, wether it was pegged or in a currency union would have been determined by the negotiations after the referendum

No again. And again. And again. I refer you back to the point I made about the SNP's tactical approach here. There is no currency union in play. The UK parties are all unambiguous here. There may be negotiations after indy but none would accept currency share. There is no Euro. There is no pound share. The SNP just ignored the response. Again. Quite deliberately. Because the reality couldn't be squared with the SNP's proposition. You may not like that. But it is a fact. And it shaped the voting intentions. Again unless this is addressed then expect the same result.

strocky] [b said:

I agree, however people are generally risk adverse, especially those that have a good lifestyle and don't struggle, it would have been political suicide for YES to argue that we should get rid of the Queen from day dot.

The BoE / Budget scenario would have been part of the deal for CU and a necessary pill for an iS to swallow if the rUK was agreeable.

The BBC argument was a nonsense (BBC & Eire happily have a commercial contract for access rights) and tbf anyone who voted NO on the basis of not getting to watch Eastenders was a moron and should have had their vote taken off them. [/b]

• Shrug* they're your electorate. If you want to win, addressing issues like these as well as preaching to the believers is the difference between winning and losing a referendum.

I'd suggest that without answering these really basic issues you won't get much movement. Most polls (cf John Curtice) continue to indicate that the split on indy continues to be 55-45 against.

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

And the reason 1.6million voted YES despite the obvious lies from the SNP i put down to the following factors

1 Being morons
2 Hating the English
3 Believing the lies that everything wrong in there life was the fault of those to the south (or is that UKIP voters)
4 Hating the 2 main parties in westminster and grasping any straw to get rid of them (or is that UKIP voters)
5 A deep rooted desire for independence of scotland even if it would wreck the economy and bring huge hardships to the poor
5 A belief that we are somehow better then others and we are being held back by them (or is that UKIP voters)

Wiggley.

I think you're being facetious but this might just be a true reflection of your distorted view of the world, your view of Scottish people, and your view of pro-independence people.

You really should show a little respect even if you don't agree with other peoples' views.

It's posts like this which make you look like a bell end.

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

I wish glasgow would declare independence and become a communist state

Then we can ship all the YES voters to live there in paradise while us baby raping english tory traitor scum can carry on living away from paradise being oppressed by having a job.

See what I mean?

[anonymous-user]

Edinburger said:

See what I mean?

He's a very angry man.

[Edinburger]

AstonZagato said:

Having watched bits of the debate last night, I am now very sure Sturgeon wants a Tory government.

Victim card will be clasped proudly to the chest, SNP MPs will make pointless soundbites in Westminster bewailing the fate imposed on downtrodden Scots. It's the SNP wet dream.

On the other hand, a Labour/SNP coalition/power-share would be a fricking disaster for the SNP. They'd actually have to try to deliver some of their barking promises and wouldn't be able to blame the Tories/Westminster/English. They'd do a Lib-Dems and implode.

I think you're absolutely right on all points there.

It's difficult to see how a Lab/SNP coalition would work, never mind the Lab/Con coalition which is being discussed elsewhere.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

I happen to think that, in terms of electorate expectation and reality, the last government has perhaps had the toughest challenges in history. Personally my politically aware days have been spent under a labour government which has ridden the crest of an economic wave, and still borrowed.

In a similar way to the SNP wanting a Tory government, I think I also would perversely see some positives in a Labour SNP coalition:

- no more moaning about Tory policies
- they'd have an awareness of what it means to control more than spending
- The 45 would feel more represented at UK level

I must say, however, I'm quite impressed with the Tories as they seem to be the only party trying to be inclusive of everyone, and not pitting their target voters AGAINST an enemy. IE labour vs the rich, SNP vs everyone else, UKIP vs immigrants and Europe.

Edited by simoid on Friday 17th April 12:05

Jeez, what's in the water today?! I find myself agreeing with you too!!

:goesforaliedown:

[Edinburger]

MintyScot said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-bus...

"Unemployment in Scotland rose by 9,000 in the three months to February and now stands at 167,000, according to official statistics."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32348353

"UK unemployment has fallen to its lowest rate since July 2008, official figures have shown."

Proof that the SNP is failing Scotland and that the ongoing political uncertainty of an SNP government and potential further referendums causing issues?

Re. your last paragraph, no not at all.

More like the four countries are intrinsically linked and variances such as this are largely meaningless because large employers usually span all four countries.

[McWigglebum4th]

Edinburger said:

simoid said:

I happen to think that, in terms of electorate expectation and reality, the last government has perhaps had the toughest challenges in history. Personally my politically aware days have been spent under a labour government which has ridden the crest of an economic wave, and still borrowed.

In a similar way to the SNP wanting a Tory government, I think I also would perversely see some positives in a Labour SNP coalition:

- no more moaning about Tory policies
- they'd have an awareness of what it means to control more than spending
- The 45 would feel more represented at UK level

I must say, however, I'm quite impressed with the Tories as they seem to be the only party trying to be inclusive of everyone, and not pitting their target voters AGAINST an enemy. IE labour vs the rich, SNP vs everyone else, UKIP vs immigrants and Europe.

Edited by simoid on Friday 17th April 12:05

Jeez, what's in the water today?! I find myself agreeing with you too!!

:goesforaliedown:

WHAT you aren't anti tory

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

McWigglebum4th said:

And the reason 1.6million voted YES despite the obvious lies from the SNP i put down to the following factors

1 Being morons
2 Hating the English
3 Believing the lies that everything wrong in there life was the fault of those to the south (or is that UKIP voters)
4 Hating the 2 main parties in westminster and grasping any straw to get rid of them (or is that UKIP voters)
5 A deep rooted desire for independence of scotland even if it would wreck the economy and bring huge hardships to the poor
5 A belief that we are somehow better then others and we are being held back by them (or is that UKIP voters)

Wiggley.

I think you're being facetious but this might just be a true reflection of your distorted view of the world, your view of Scottish people, and your view of pro-independence people.

You really should show a little respect even if you don't agree with other peoples' views.

It's posts like this which make you look like a bell end.

Feel free to expand the list if he has forgotten something.

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

WHAT you aren't anti tory

Nope. If you'd paid attention to my posts, you'd have seen that I agree with quite a lot of Conservative policies and I've voted Conservative in the past.

[Edinburger]

NoNeed said:

Feel free to expand the list if he has forgotten something.

The list on why so many voted Yes?

You're clearly on a piss take given that it's been discussed time and time again over five volumes?

[simoid]

NoNeed said:

Edinburger said:

McWigglebum4th said:

And the reason 1.6million voted YES despite the obvious lies from the SNP i put down to the following factors

1 Being morons
2 Hating the English
3 Believing the lies that everything wrong in there life was the fault of those to the south (or is that UKIP voters)
4 Hating the 2 main parties in westminster and grasping any straw to get rid of them (or is that UKIP voters)
5 A deep rooted desire for independence of scotland even if it would wreck the economy and bring huge hardships to the poor
5 A belief that we are somehow better then others and we are being held back by them (or is that UKIP voters)

Wiggley.

I think you're being facetious but this might just be a true reflection of your distorted view of the world, your view of Scottish people, and your view of pro-independence people.

You really should show a little respect even if you don't agree with other peoples' views.

It's posts like this which make you look like a bell end.

Feel free to expand the list if he has forgotten something.

Indeed - I think all of the bases are covered there.

Perhaps "wants and independent Scoland as life would be better", but that falls under 1 I believe. Although one could dress it more nicely as "naive".

[NoNeed]

Edinburger said:

NoNeed said:

Feel free to expand the list if he has forgotten something.

The list on why so many voted Yes?

You're clearly on a piss take given that it's been discussed time and time again over five volumes?

What did he forget?