Discussion
My meters have been replaced with "smart" ones. I suspect we may have been an early candidate following a year of much reduced usage due to us not living here while an extension was built. A mate who works away has also had them fitted so I suspect the utility companies want to fit them where they see untypically low usage.
Installation was done by appointment obviously and I don't recall being especially put out by having to wait in all day. I think it may have been they'll come morning or afternoon. They guy fitting them was tidy and cleared up after the installs.
In terms of usage there's some kind of pda type gizmo that displays usage but we don't bother with it. There's an app that allows to view usage on my phone should I wish. As far as what difference I see before and after it's really that I don't have to submit a reading once per month.
Installation was done by appointment obviously and I don't recall being especially put out by having to wait in all day. I think it may have been they'll come morning or afternoon. They guy fitting them was tidy and cleared up after the installs.
In terms of usage there's some kind of pda type gizmo that displays usage but we don't bother with it. There's an app that allows to view usage on my phone should I wish. As far as what difference I see before and after it's really that I don't have to submit a reading once per month.
http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/a-reminder-your-righ...
http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/a-reminder-your-righ...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/power-takeover-are-sm...
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/smart-meters...
But more importantly Smart Meters will be used to ration your electric usage during peak times.
http://stopsmartmeters.org.uk/a-reminder-your-righ...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/power-takeover-are-sm...
http://the-tap.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/smart-meters...
But more importantly Smart Meters will be used to ration your electric usage during peak times.
Tin foil hat folks aside, I've had mine in for nearly 18 months and they're doing just what they're meant to: stopping me from getting estimated bills. The rest I don't care hugely about, and this is despite me fitting them for one of the big six for a living.
I do have an energy monitor/display that I look at now and again, but the problem most people forget is that having a Smart meter won't save you money or energy. It's the extra information and awareness that it can bring that helps you lower your energy usage. If you ignore it, of course your bills won't go down! I honestly don't understand all the fuss about them, as they can't be used to restrict your usage in any way yet. There are plans for a prepayment version, which would obviously have to switch you off if/when you run out of credit otherwise it's not pay as you go. But they are unable to throttle your supply in anyway; it's either on or off.
I do have an energy monitor/display that I look at now and again, but the problem most people forget is that having a Smart meter won't save you money or energy. It's the extra information and awareness that it can bring that helps you lower your energy usage. If you ignore it, of course your bills won't go down! I honestly don't understand all the fuss about them, as they can't be used to restrict your usage in any way yet. There are plans for a prepayment version, which would obviously have to switch you off if/when you run out of credit otherwise it's not pay as you go. But they are unable to throttle your supply in anyway; it's either on or off.
Snake the Sniper said:
I've had mine in for nearly 18 months and they're doing just what they're meant to: stopping me from getting estimated bills.
This.I have electricity and gas smart meters and they do a fine job of making my bills accurate. Downside was a year of being on the "smart meter tarriff" which wasn't the absolute cheapest rate on the market but that was a small price to pay. I hardly ever look at the monitor doobrey in the house, but I do check the online analysis stuff from time to time to see how the usage is comparing with same time last year.
"tin foil hat" 
have another then............
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2...
"Energy firms benefit because they will no longer have to send meter-readers into homes, and will be able to disconnect customers more easily if they do not pay their bills"
Which also means they have ability to cut you off at will during the predicted energy crisis due to this government and Europes eco-loons policies!!
have another then............http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2...
"Energy firms benefit because they will no longer have to send meter-readers into homes, and will be able to disconnect customers more easily if they do not pay their bills"
Which also means they have ability to cut you off at will during the predicted energy crisis due to this government and Europes eco-loons policies!!
So the idea behind them, apparently, is to show people where they are wasting money (and energy) and to encourage different useage patterns "to save the planet" and yet the main advantage to clients (and all that people seem to care about so far) it to get accurate bills. Not even cheap bills, just accurate.
One might have expected the bills to be reasonably accurate anyway. Poor show if they were not.
So, no energy saving attempts making use of the meter's output might suggest the "government's" objectives are not being met.
The energy suppliers "might" have some cost savings although I doubt it. My lot now expect me to send a reading quarterly and will attempt to send someone to read the meters once a year. Not sure they save much.
I can never compare bills year on year since the billing dates or tariffs always change mid bill and in any case weather patterns have a greater effect on gas consumption than might be imagined.
The supplier may not be entirely happy, long terms, if the loss of overbilling interest is greater than they can save effectively (if anything) through lower overheads.
On the other hand should they ever decide that they can introduce variable unit charging based on the current market rate as is changes minute by minute they would have all the information they need.
And being able to differentially bill according to type of device (your Tesla on charge overnight for example) might suit a government seeking ways of making up for lost duty from fossil fuels. Not now perhaps, but give it a few years until people have been softened up and put through the planned familiarisation process. A bit like getting primary school children to name Wind Turbines. It has nothing at all to do with the units needing names and a lot to do with a form of grooming. It will be the same with smart meters - though likely without the naming idea.
Of course for anyone happy with leaving their lives open to detailed analysis that would be fine. It's not quite like FB or Twitter though. Not so easy to close the account or move to another user name ...
One might have expected the bills to be reasonably accurate anyway. Poor show if they were not.
So, no energy saving attempts making use of the meter's output might suggest the "government's" objectives are not being met.
The energy suppliers "might" have some cost savings although I doubt it. My lot now expect me to send a reading quarterly and will attempt to send someone to read the meters once a year. Not sure they save much.
I can never compare bills year on year since the billing dates or tariffs always change mid bill and in any case weather patterns have a greater effect on gas consumption than might be imagined.
The supplier may not be entirely happy, long terms, if the loss of overbilling interest is greater than they can save effectively (if anything) through lower overheads.
On the other hand should they ever decide that they can introduce variable unit charging based on the current market rate as is changes minute by minute they would have all the information they need.
And being able to differentially bill according to type of device (your Tesla on charge overnight for example) might suit a government seeking ways of making up for lost duty from fossil fuels. Not now perhaps, but give it a few years until people have been softened up and put through the planned familiarisation process. A bit like getting primary school children to name Wind Turbines. It has nothing at all to do with the units needing names and a lot to do with a form of grooming. It will be the same with smart meters - though likely without the naming idea.
Of course for anyone happy with leaving their lives open to detailed analysis that would be fine. It's not quite like FB or Twitter though. Not so easy to close the account or move to another user name ...
dickymint said:
"tin foil hat" have another then............
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2...
"Energy firms benefit because they will no longer have to send meter-readers into homes, and will be able to disconnect customers more easily if they do not pay their bills"
Which also means they have ability to cut you off at will during the predicted energy crisis due to this government and Europes eco-loons policies!!
That article is full of much that is either wrong or misleading. All Meter Operators have a duty to inspect meters at least once every two years, and who do you think energy companies would prefer to use to fit all these millions of meters? Jo Blogs off the street, or re-trained meter readers who already know the industry? have another then............http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-2...
"Energy firms benefit because they will no longer have to send meter-readers into homes, and will be able to disconnect customers more easily if they do not pay their bills"
Which also means they have ability to cut you off at will during the predicted energy crisis due to this government and Europes eco-loons policies!!
With regards to the tariffs having cheaper timings, that has been going on for years and is nothing new at all. What do you think Economy 7/Economy 10/Heatwise etc etc and storage heaters were for?
The display is an optional device, just as the meter is, and the company I work for would prefer customers to use the on-line versions of it, as it's both cheaper for us (obviously) and will work anywhere that a meter can be fitted. The only rural areas where it won't work are those with no signal at all, as the idea is that the meters will have a roaming SIM so they can use any network. As for them being hacked? In all fairness I don't know enough about that side of things to safely pass judgement either way. But I do know that my existing meter can not be switched off remotely as it has no internal contactor to allow that to happen.
Whilst there are some valid concerns, as with any technology, they are no where near what the articles you've linked to imply. So for now, tin foil hats at the ready!
dickymint said:
you fit these meters - do you deny that your meter is not capable of load limiting?
It's quite possible that the first meters installed will not have the full technical capabilities that may be rolled out in the future.However, once the consumer has been groomed to accept and even prefer the system there will, almost certainly, be a need to "replace" the early meters with a "new improved" version. To meet new safety standard, obviously. No other reason.
MrAndyW said:
The cynic in me thinks once we've all got smart meters,there could be high and low tariffs depending on the time of the day/demand/supply available.
LongQ said:
dickymint said:
you fit these meters - do you deny that your meter is not capable of load limiting?
It's quite possible that the first meters installed will not have the full technical capabilities that may be rolled out in the future.However, once the consumer has been groomed to accept and even prefer the system there will, almost certainly, be a need to "replace" the early meters with a "new improved" version. To meet new safety standard, obviously. No other reason.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=8&a...
turbobloke said:
LongQ said:
dickymint said:
you fit these meters - do you deny that your meter is not capable of load limiting?
It's quite possible that the first meters installed will not have the full technical capabilities that may be rolled out in the future.However, once the consumer has been groomed to accept and even prefer the system there will, almost certainly, be a need to "replace" the early meters with a "new improved" version. To meet new safety standard, obviously. No other reason.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=8&a...
MrAndyW said:
Yes,they are either on or off, But at the moment they're bribing large companies to reduce usage between 1600hrs and 2000hrs.
The cynic in me thinks once we've all got smart meters,there could be high and low tariffs depending on the time of the day/demand/supply available.
This is exactly what they'll be used for. Currently (no pun intended) medium/large commercial has half hourly metering, tariff is broken down into 48 rates per day, meter then sends 48 readings/day and we're charged accordingly. 4pm on a November afternoon, it's >£1 unit, midnight it's <2p unit. The same will be brought into domestic metering, albeit not on the same spread I'm sure, enabled by smart meters. The cynic in me thinks once we've all got smart meters,there could be high and low tariffs depending on the time of the day/demand/supply available.
dickymint said:
Snake the Sniper said:
But I do know that my existing meter can not be switched off remotely as it has no internal contactor to allow that to happen.
you fit these meters - do you deny that your meter is not capable of load limiting? As for future generations of metering, anything beyond actual metering is pure speculation at this point. Smart Meter Equipment Technical Specification 2 (SMETS2) will be provided by the Gov't soon, so you will be able to see for yourself what the meters should and should not be capable of.
Snake the Sniper said:
dickymint said:
Snake the Sniper said:
But I do know that my existing meter can not be switched off remotely as it has no internal contactor to allow that to happen.
you fit these meters - do you deny that your meter is not capable of load limiting? As for future generations of metering, anything beyond actual metering is pure speculation at this point. Smart Meter Equipment Technical Specification 2 (SMETS2) will be provided by the Gov't soon, so you will be able to see for yourself what the meters should and should not be capable of.
uncinqsix said:
MrAndyW said:
The cynic in me thinks once we've all got smart meters,there could be high and low tariffs depending on the time of the day/demand/supply available.
Do not expect to save money. The current electricity generation strategy does not seem to be given to low cost production with a view to making cheaper energy available. On the contrary, right now it seems to be target at making energy as expensive as "they" dare in order to force people to change their attitude about energy usage per se. Why is unclear. It may be the start of the final death throes of the 'Western' industrial civilisation as we currently understand it. It has been a few hundred years since it evolved so perhaps it is just part of the natural cycle that civilisations go through.
Still, if people are quite happy to live a fully monitored lives lived in public on social media I suppose they will also eventually be delighted to have representatives of the state control the less interesting part of their lives - like when they can have the light on and get the washing machine to wash for them and have hot water (or maybe even enjoy cold water) for showers and baths.
I expect the authorities will find ways to help people fell good about such changes - to feel they are 'doing something'. Which they undoubtedly will be, even if it not actually what they think they are doing. They may be happy so long as they don't think too often about why they do it and what it really means.
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