trailer question

[R0G]

Max_Torque said:

How can towing a trailer than "can" overload your towing vehicle but isn't actually doing so be illegal?

That would be same as prosecuting someone for murder because they own a gun?

Or for prosecuting all vehicle drivers for the potential to speed because their vehicle is capable of going over the speed limit !

[tjlees]

R0G said:

tjlees said:

So you are saying I can exceed the GVW/MAM while towing?

NO

To make this easier to understand I will give a legal example for a B only licence driver

Vehicle
GVW 1900 kg
GTW 3300 kg
towing capacity 1400 kg

Trailer
MAM 1600 kg

Load vehicle to actual weight of 1900 = GVW of 1900 not exceeded
Load trailer to actual weight of 1400 = MAM of 1600 not exceeded = towing capacity 1400 not exceeded
Total weight is now 3300 = GTW of 3300 not exceeded


GVW 1900 + MAM 1600 = 3500 so not exceeded B licence towing law

With a B+E licence the trailer could be 3500 plated MAM and loaded to an actual weight of 1400

Edited by R0G on Saturday 13th September 21:46

So if the GVW 1900 + trailer MAM 2000, even if unladen, I'm breaking b licence towing law?

[R0G]

tjlees said:

So if the GVW 1900 + trailer MAM 2000, even if unladen, I'm breaking b licence towing law?

YES because the total of the GVW+MAM is 3900 so 300 over the B licence 3500 limit

Licencing laws go on plated weights not actual weights

[kambites]

And because the trailer MAM is more than the unladen vehicle weight?

[tjlees]

R0G said:

tjlees said:

So if the GVW 1900 + trailer MAM 2000, even if unladen, I'm breaking b licence towing law?

YES because the total of the GVW+MAM is 3900 so 300 over the B licence 3500 limit

Licencing laws go on plated weights not actual weights

I suspect the bj sales guy was twisting the facts with me or economical with the truth, because he didn't ask what licence I had, only the towing capacity of the vehicle!

Just looked up the gvw of my potential new tow vehicle - it's 2180kg! Current one is 1980kg.

[Supernova190188]

The towing laws for B drivers are absolutely ridiculous! Makes no sense to prosecute for towing an empty trailer. Like I mentioned in the other thread as an example - e.g I have a big 4x4 with kerb weight of 2000kg and gvw of 2300kg then I could tow a small caravan with a MAM of 1200kg , but couldn't tow an EMPTY car transporter with weight of 350kg and MAM of 1300kg, however if i had a smaller car with weight of 1350kg and GVW of 1600kg then I could tow the caravan and also empty or fully loaded car transporter trailer? Even though towing with the car is far more dangerous.

[jagracer]

Supernova190188 said:

The towing laws for B drivers are absolutely ridiculous! Makes no sense to prosecute for towing an empty trailer..

Totally agree the towing laws are an arse. The most sensible law to stop any confusion would be to make it that you need a B+E to tow anything.

[Zoobeef]

kambites said:

And because the trailer MAM is more than the unladen vehicle weight?

That rule was removed in Jan this year.

[R0G]

Zoobeef said:

That rule was removed in Jan this year.

Last year - 19/01/2013

The problem is that the old rules have been left on the internet

[powerstroke]

jagracer said:

Supernova190188 said:

The towing laws for B drivers are absolutely ridiculous! Makes no sense to prosecute for towing an empty trailer..

Totally agree the towing laws are an arse. The most sensible law to stop any confusion would be to make it that you need a B+E to tow anything.

That would be far too simple and easy to enforce !!!

[R0G]

Supernova190188 said:

The towing laws for B drivers are absolutely ridiculous! Makes no sense to prosecute for towing an empty trailer..

By that thinking would it also be silly to prosecute a car driver in a LGV 7.5 tonner empty vehicle which weighed no more than 3500 kgs ?

[skyrover]

powerstroke said:

jagracer said:

Supernova190188 said:

The towing laws for B drivers are absolutely ridiculous! Makes no sense to prosecute for towing an empty trailer..

Totally agree the towing laws are an arse. The most sensible law to stop any confusion would be to make it that you need a B+E to tow anything.

That would be far too simple and easy to enforce !!!

Stiflingly expensive for as well though.

More red tape.. not what this country needs.

[kambites]

Zoobeef said:

kambites said:

And because the trailer MAM is more than the unladen vehicle weight?

That rule was removed in Jan this year.

Ah, good. It was always a bloody stupid rule.

[oldcynic]

jagracer said:

Totally agree the towing laws are an arse. The most sensible law to stop any confusion would be to make it that you need a B+E to tow anything.

Not that sensible.

I have a camping trailer which weighs no more than 500kg fully loaded and just follows me around with no drama.

However my caravan is nearly 8 metres long and rather more of a handful - so much so that it's entirely sensible to get some extra training and another test. Of course being old I just muddle through and seem to cope OK because my licence allows me to.

Based on my experience I would limit weight and dimensions of the trailer and ignore the combined weight - probably allow up to 750kg and 4 meters length before requiring an additional test or thereabouts.

[kambites]

skyrover said:

Stiflingly expensive for as well though.

More red tape.. not what this country needs.

I'm sure people said the same about needing a licence to drive a car at all, but that's generally accepted as having turned out to be a good thing.

[powerstroke]

At least it seems you can go in the outside lane with a trailer seen most days !!!

[tjlees]

oldcynic said:

jagracer said:

Totally agree the towing laws are an arse. The most sensible law to stop any confusion would be to make it that you need a B+E to tow anything.

Not that sensible.

I have a camping trailer which weighs no more than 500kg fully loaded and just follows me around with no drama.

However my caravan is nearly 8 metres long and rather more of a handful - so much so that it's entirely sensible to get some extra training and another test. Of course being old I just muddle through and seem to cope OK because my licence allows me to.

Based on my experience I would limit weight and dimensions of the trailer and ignore the combined weight - probably allow up to 750kg and 4 meters length before requiring an additional test or thereabouts.

Additionally making heavy trailer/caravans twin axle to make them more stable. In ten years of towing, I've had four separate instances of punctures/blowouts, and having four tyres with one going no dramas - just find a convenient spot to pull over and put on the spare. On a single axle you may get this ...

[skyrover]

kambites said:

skyrover said:

Stiflingly expensive for as well though.

More red tape.. not what this country needs.

I'm sure people said the same about needing a licence to drive a car at all, but that's generally accepted as having turned out to be a good thing.

While they are at it, they might as well introduce another test in order to carry passengers.

[Zoobeef]

R0G said:

Last year - 19/01/2013

The problem is that the old rules have been left on the internet

Hmm I seem to have missed a year! Time flies.

[Supernova190188]

Zoobeef said:

kambites said:

And because the trailer MAM is more than the unladen vehicle weight?

That rule was removed in Jan this year.

Right so to get this absolutely correct then. Anyone who passed between 1997 - 2013 can tow anything as long as total train weight is not over 3500kgs and the actual trailer weight is not more than the vehicle weight.

I've just bought a truck weighing around 1850kgs, so as rules have been removed I should be able to tow anything weighing up to 1650 kgs whether empty , loaded etc and will absolutely not get done ?