Alarm, immobiliser and boot release
Discussion
Just in case anyone is contemplating replacing the immobiliser before the well publicised problems occur then I wanted to recommend Abacus Alarms (www.abacusalarms.co.uk). It's a plug and play system that takes less than 30 minutes to put in once the dash is off. I am not at all electrically competent beyond wiring a plug, but this system is very simple. The system comes with an option for a remote boot release. The cost of the system is less than half of what I was quoted to have professionally installed.The owner of Abacus couldn't be more helpful.
The kit on the web site looks like £325 (if I looked correctly). So you fitted it yourself? How did you get the certificate for the installation? or does abacus do one for you?
Carl Baker does the whole lot for £500 and his work is up there with the best.
Only asking to help others with there decision. I had to do this last year.
Carl Baker does the whole lot for £500 and his work is up there with the best.
Only asking to help others with there decision. I had to do this last year.
davelittlewood said:
Do you need a certificate from a Professional for the installation to be accepted by Insurance companies? (my guess is yes)
Yes certificates are available. I was quoted £650 for Carl Baker to update the alarm. There is universal support for the quality of his work. As I gather the work is to replace the Alarm and Immobiliser units and none of the other wiring (literally plug and play) I thought I'd have a go and so I now have replaced the elderly immobiliser and have a new alarm and boot release operated by a button on the side of the two Silka keys. I paid £550 18 months ago to have mine updated by Carl at his then Hampshire home. Top job, but I had to spend an entire day 180 miles from home while he did the job. I was able to take some work with me and work in his kitchen, but it was a full 10 hour day, as he completely refreshes the alarm wiring. He now lives in France and works out of Dan Taylor's TVR pace in Kent.
I value Lev's opinion, and that Sagaris of his is stunning and I am sure wants for nothing. I hope he is enjoying his foray into RV8 land, but I suspect that if he says it's plug and play it really is. And decent quality too.
I am not an electrician, but am aware that many Chimaera owners are not over-blessed with spare funds. at least you now have a choice.
I value Lev's opinion, and that Sagaris of his is stunning and I am sure wants for nothing. I hope he is enjoying his foray into RV8 land, but I suspect that if he says it's plug and play it really is. And decent quality too.
I am not an electrician, but am aware that many Chimaera owners are not over-blessed with spare funds. at least you now have a choice.
QBee said:
I paid £550 18 months ago to have mine updated by Carl at his then Hampshire home. Top job, but I had to spend an entire day 180 miles from home while he did the job. I was able to take some work with me and work in his kitchen, but it was a full 10 hour day, as he completely refreshes the alarm wiring. He now lives in France and works out of Dan Taylor's TVR pace in Kent.
I value Lev's opinion, and that Sagaris of his is stunning and I am sure wants for nothing. I hope he is enjoying his foray into RV8 land, but I suspect that if he says it's plug and play it really is. And decent quality too.
I am not an electrician, but am aware that many Chimaera owners are not over-blessed with spare funds. at least you now have a choice.
Thank you Anthony. The Sag is somewhat pampered and the Chimaera is work in progress but getting there. Your comments are much appreciated. Its just an option and I wanted to share my experience with fellow owners and enthusiasts, so as you say its a choice. Hope to see you soon. I value Lev's opinion, and that Sagaris of his is stunning and I am sure wants for nothing. I hope he is enjoying his foray into RV8 land, but I suspect that if he says it's plug and play it really is. And decent quality too.
I am not an electrician, but am aware that many Chimaera owners are not over-blessed with spare funds. at least you now have a choice.
This seems like an excellent option, my only concern is whether the plug and play nature means you're still left with the same TVR wiring errors that are the route cause of the problem in the first place.
I'd speculate there's a very good reason why Carl Baker takes almost a full day to fit a new system, and it's not because he's profiteering.
Carl is taking this long because he's correcting the way the TVR wired the system in the first place, which means he's not just plugging the new Meta units into the existing TVR wired multi-plugs.
The bottom line is if you're still passing all those starter solenoid amps the wrong way through that little switching relay inside the Meta unit it'll be sure to burn out like the original did.
Whats needed is a dedicated starter solenoid relay, I suspect if the switching side of this starter solenoid relay is energised by a low amp feed your new Meta unit will last a whole lot longer.
If you go with the plug & play kit from Abacus Alarms that's where David Beer's hot start kit may actually prove beneficial as it'll stop the damage BEFORE it takes place.
I'd speculate there's a very good reason why Carl Baker takes almost a full day to fit a new system, and it's not because he's profiteering.
Carl is taking this long because he's correcting the way the TVR wired the system in the first place, which means he's not just plugging the new Meta units into the existing TVR wired multi-plugs.
The bottom line is if you're still passing all those starter solenoid amps the wrong way through that little switching relay inside the Meta unit it'll be sure to burn out like the original did.
Whats needed is a dedicated starter solenoid relay, I suspect if the switching side of this starter solenoid relay is energised by a low amp feed your new Meta unit will last a whole lot longer.
If you go with the plug & play kit from Abacus Alarms that's where David Beer's hot start kit may actually prove beneficial as it'll stop the damage BEFORE it takes place.
Bingo Dave, you're not comparing apples and apples here, so the price is different. Some cars have had quite a few people splice in and chop out other alarms systems before a car makes it to Carl, so there is a complete rats nest to sort out before there is any replacement of boxes going on. I've been there and seen it myself.
ChimpOnGas said:
This seems like an excellent option, my only concern is whether the plug and play nature means you're still left with the same TVR wiring errors that are the route cause of the problem in the first place.
I'd speculate there's a very good reason why Carl Baker takes almost a full day to fit a new system, and it's not because he's profiteering.
Carl is taking this long because he's correcting the way the TVR wired the system in the first place, which means he's not just plugging the new Meta units into the existing TVR wired multi-plugs.
The bottom line is if you're still passing all those starter solenoid amps the wrong way through that little switching relay inside the Meta unit it'll be sure to burn out like the original did.
Whats needed is a dedicated starter solenoid relay, I suspect if the switching side of this starter solenoid relay is energised by a low amp feed your new Meta unit will last a whole lot longer.
If you go with the plug & play kit from Abacus Alarms that's where David Beer's hot start kit may actually prove beneficial as it'll stop the damage BEFORE it takes place.
Thanks....I'll look into that.I'd speculate there's a very good reason why Carl Baker takes almost a full day to fit a new system, and it's not because he's profiteering.
Carl is taking this long because he's correcting the way the TVR wired the system in the first place, which means he's not just plugging the new Meta units into the existing TVR wired multi-plugs.
The bottom line is if you're still passing all those starter solenoid amps the wrong way through that little switching relay inside the Meta unit it'll be sure to burn out like the original did.
Whats needed is a dedicated starter solenoid relay, I suspect if the switching side of this starter solenoid relay is energised by a low amp feed your new Meta unit will last a whole lot longer.
If you go with the plug & play kit from Abacus Alarms that's where David Beer's hot start kit may actually prove beneficial as it'll stop the damage BEFORE it takes place.
I have the Carl one, with the boot release (dunno how people live without that)
But frankly... It's 20+ year old tech that I wish I didn't have in my car. It's just in the way.
I am tempted to super glue the fob in place so that I never need deal with it again.
Open door, put kid in seat, go around sit in - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, arrange yourself, get seatbelt, start to open garage door - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, sit in, make / take quick phone call before V8 kicks in. - re-de-emobilise.
etc etc
Fvkc that. It's the only thing that ruins my Chim enjoyment daily.
Which, frankly says it all about my tiv
But frankly... It's 20+ year old tech that I wish I didn't have in my car. It's just in the way.
I am tempted to super glue the fob in place so that I never need deal with it again.
Open door, put kid in seat, go around sit in - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, arrange yourself, get seatbelt, start to open garage door - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, sit in, make / take quick phone call before V8 kicks in. - re-de-emobilise.
etc etc
Fvkc that. It's the only thing that ruins my Chim enjoyment daily.
Which, frankly says it all about my tiv
zacherynuk said:
I have the Carl one, with the boot release (dunno how people live without that)
But frankly... It's 20+ year old tech that I wish I didn't have in my car. It's just in the way.
I am tempted to super glue the fob in place so that I never need deal with it again.
Open door, put kid in seat, go around sit in - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, arrange yourself, get seatbelt, start to open garage door - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, sit in, make / take quick phone call before V8 kicks in. - re-de-emobilise.
etc etc
Fvkc that. It's the only thing that ruins my Chim enjoyment daily.
Which, frankly says it all about my tiv
I'm still on the original system and it is sometimes annoying. However, if the ignition is left in the on position, it doesn't happen. Only if you turn power off at the ignition key do you have only 10s to turn it on again.But frankly... It's 20+ year old tech that I wish I didn't have in my car. It's just in the way.
I am tempted to super glue the fob in place so that I never need deal with it again.
Open door, put kid in seat, go around sit in - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, arrange yourself, get seatbelt, start to open garage door - re-de-emobilise.
Open door, sit in, make / take quick phone call before V8 kicks in. - re-de-emobilise.
etc etc
Fvkc that. It's the only thing that ruins my Chim enjoyment daily.
Which, frankly says it all about my tiv
My hot start is getting worse . Could i fit a water proof relay at the side of the starter motor ,use the existing solenoid wire for the "kicker" then take a cable ,the direct feed on the starter motor,fuse it and fit a relay .
The feed to the solenoid is going to have some kick and it doess not matter how poor the voltage/amps are on the solenoid wire because its only feeding the relay .
This advice was given to me at the weekend .
Any thoughts ?
The feed to the solenoid is going to have some kick and it doess not matter how poor the voltage/amps are on the solenoid wire because its only feeding the relay .
This advice was given to me at the weekend .
Any thoughts ?
The immobiliser system is nothing more than a switch on two circuits (the ECU & the starter solenoid) you just happen to turn on and off with the fob.
The rest of the Meta system is just responsible for locking & unlocking, pulse flashing the indicators and triggering the siren, these aspects are typically quite reliable.
After you've entered the car pressing that fob a second time to start the car is just powering up the ECU (which in turn powers up the fuel pump), and also completing the starter solenoid circuit ready for when you put the key into the sprung start position.
At this point its very important to point out that hearing the fuel pump buzz just means the ECU is powered up and nothing more.
Hearing the fuel pump buzz for 2-3 seconds does not mean the second circuit running through the Meta unit from the sprung key position (cranking) to the starter solenoid has been completed, far from it.
This is because the two circuits are very much independent each having their own little dedicated switching relay buried deep inside the Meta unit, powering up the ECU takes very few amps so that little Meta switching relay tends to last well.
Powering up the starter solenoid requires a shed load more amps than the ECU so that little switching relay gets a whack load more amps and does not cope well.
To add to this TVR in their wisdom fitted a dedicated external relay for the ECU and a second dedicated external relay for the fuel pump so those circuits never see high loads, these relays are the two metal testicles you reveal hanging precariously in the passenger footwell when you remove the carpeted kick panel that covers the battery.
What TVR neglected to do was fit a dedicated external relay to the starter solenoid circuit, while not exactly best practice this could have actually worked reasonably well had they not wired that circuit back to front through the little switching relay inside the Meta unit.
That's why after wiring the new paired units correctly Carl Baker will tell you you don't really need a dedicated external starter solenoid relay (hot start kit), in fact he will remove the hot start kit if it's been fitted previously as it's just more untidy spliced in wiring and a point of potential failure you're better off without.
When things start going south with the old original TVR installed system what most people typically find is the the fuel pump will still buzz for 2-3 seconds when they press the immobiliser fob but they get absolutely nothing when they try to crank the car over.
Because they heard the fuel pump buzz they immediately make the assumption the Meta system is fine and turn their attentions to unnecessarily replacing the starter motor.
Remember the fuel pump is only run for 2-3 seconds by the ECU to prime the fuel rail, after that it will only turn it back on when it sees the engine its turning over/running, but things are so noisy when all that's happening you'll not hear the fuel pump at all even though it is running.
It's extremely common for the Meta unit to power up the ECU & in turn the fuel pump, but still have a failed starter solenoid circuit ie no starter motor.
The good news is the failing starter solenoid circuit is really easy to bypass, while this will effect an immediate & reliable solution doing so is ultimately a bodge.
I sorted a chimaera belonging to a good friend of mine (lets just call him "The Gas Man") by bypassing the Meta unit on this starter solenoid circuit.
With his car (which is really nice, fast & surprisingly economical) if you get in and turn the key the car will crank away without starting, until that is you press the immobiliser fob at which point the ECU is powered up the injectors open, the fuel pump runs & sparks are made at the plugs.
So you see his car still can't be started until the immobiliser fob is pressed and the bypass cost nothing, I incorporated a secondary secret security system just as a belt and braces final line of defense but it really isn't needed to be honest.
My next idea is to to take the bypass a step further running both ECU & starter solenoid circuits through a paired proximity chip system rather than the poor old Meta unit, it would need a dedicated external starter solenoid relay but should work well.
Paired proximity chips are cheap, secure & readily available, you put one of the chips inside your key and the other inside the steering wheel cowl close to the ignition switch.
When the steering wheel cowl chip sees his brother chip in the key (and the key is moved to position one) the two circuits (ECU & starter solenoid) are made.
It should work work like this:
1. Unlock the car & simultaneously deactivate the alarm with the fob as normal
2. Put key in the barrel & turn to position one
3. At which point you'd hear the fuel pump buzz for 2-3 seconds
4. Turn the key to the sprung start position and start the car
So the proximity chip system just replaces the Meta unit switching function on the ECU & starter solenoid circuits.
Just imagine that, get in - turn the key - and drive away.
It'll be just like a real car
The rest of the Meta system is just responsible for locking & unlocking, pulse flashing the indicators and triggering the siren, these aspects are typically quite reliable.
After you've entered the car pressing that fob a second time to start the car is just powering up the ECU (which in turn powers up the fuel pump), and also completing the starter solenoid circuit ready for when you put the key into the sprung start position.
At this point its very important to point out that hearing the fuel pump buzz just means the ECU is powered up and nothing more.
Hearing the fuel pump buzz for 2-3 seconds does not mean the second circuit running through the Meta unit from the sprung key position (cranking) to the starter solenoid has been completed, far from it.
This is because the two circuits are very much independent each having their own little dedicated switching relay buried deep inside the Meta unit, powering up the ECU takes very few amps so that little Meta switching relay tends to last well.
Powering up the starter solenoid requires a shed load more amps than the ECU so that little switching relay gets a whack load more amps and does not cope well.
To add to this TVR in their wisdom fitted a dedicated external relay for the ECU and a second dedicated external relay for the fuel pump so those circuits never see high loads, these relays are the two metal testicles you reveal hanging precariously in the passenger footwell when you remove the carpeted kick panel that covers the battery.
What TVR neglected to do was fit a dedicated external relay to the starter solenoid circuit, while not exactly best practice this could have actually worked reasonably well had they not wired that circuit back to front through the little switching relay inside the Meta unit.
That's why after wiring the new paired units correctly Carl Baker will tell you you don't really need a dedicated external starter solenoid relay (hot start kit), in fact he will remove the hot start kit if it's been fitted previously as it's just more untidy spliced in wiring and a point of potential failure you're better off without.
When things start going south with the old original TVR installed system what most people typically find is the the fuel pump will still buzz for 2-3 seconds when they press the immobiliser fob but they get absolutely nothing when they try to crank the car over.
Because they heard the fuel pump buzz they immediately make the assumption the Meta system is fine and turn their attentions to unnecessarily replacing the starter motor.
Remember the fuel pump is only run for 2-3 seconds by the ECU to prime the fuel rail, after that it will only turn it back on when it sees the engine its turning over/running, but things are so noisy when all that's happening you'll not hear the fuel pump at all even though it is running.
It's extremely common for the Meta unit to power up the ECU & in turn the fuel pump, but still have a failed starter solenoid circuit ie no starter motor.
The good news is the failing starter solenoid circuit is really easy to bypass, while this will effect an immediate & reliable solution doing so is ultimately a bodge.
I sorted a chimaera belonging to a good friend of mine (lets just call him "The Gas Man") by bypassing the Meta unit on this starter solenoid circuit.
With his car (which is really nice, fast & surprisingly economical) if you get in and turn the key the car will crank away without starting, until that is you press the immobiliser fob at which point the ECU is powered up the injectors open, the fuel pump runs & sparks are made at the plugs.
So you see his car still can't be started until the immobiliser fob is pressed and the bypass cost nothing, I incorporated a secondary secret security system just as a belt and braces final line of defense but it really isn't needed to be honest.
My next idea is to to take the bypass a step further running both ECU & starter solenoid circuits through a paired proximity chip system rather than the poor old Meta unit, it would need a dedicated external starter solenoid relay but should work well.
Paired proximity chips are cheap, secure & readily available, you put one of the chips inside your key and the other inside the steering wheel cowl close to the ignition switch.
When the steering wheel cowl chip sees his brother chip in the key (and the key is moved to position one) the two circuits (ECU & starter solenoid) are made.
It should work work like this:
1. Unlock the car & simultaneously deactivate the alarm with the fob as normal
2. Put key in the barrel & turn to position one
3. At which point you'd hear the fuel pump buzz for 2-3 seconds
4. Turn the key to the sprung start position and start the car
So the proximity chip system just replaces the Meta unit switching function on the ECU & starter solenoid circuits.
Just imagine that, get in - turn the key - and drive away.
It'll be just like a real car
ukdj said:
Lev,
I have a brand new unused Modwise hot start kit sitting in the garage, yours if want it can help you fit it too if needed.
assume you 'll probably want to do it after you return from your hols.
Regards
Paul.
Thanks Paul. That's great and yes please. I will obviously reimburse the cost of the unit and beer tokens for the install guidance! It still amazes me on just how helpful TVR owners are. I've never bought a car and experienced such a great community spirit and bunch of people. As someone said, you buy a TVR and get 50 new friends for free. CheersI have a brand new unused Modwise hot start kit sitting in the garage, yours if want it can help you fit it too if needed.
assume you 'll probably want to do it after you return from your hols.
Regards
Paul.
SirSagalot said:
Thanks Paul. That's great and yes please. I will obviously reimburse the cost of the unit and beer tokens for the install guidance! It still amazes me on just how helpful TVR owners are. I've never bought a car and experienced such a great community spirit and bunch of people. As someone said, you buy a TVR and get 50 new friends for free. Cheers
Partly because most people have had the same problems 
You could buy a car which doesn't have faults but where is the fun in that?
SirSagalot said:
Thanks Paul. That's great and yes please. I will obviously reimburse the cost of the unit and beer tokens for the install guidance! It still amazes me on just how helpful TVR owners are. I've never bought a car and experienced such a great community spirit and bunch of people. As someone said, you buy a TVR and get 50 new friends for free. Cheers
No problem, let me know when you are ready to fit it and we can sort something out.Regards
Paul.
SirSagalot said:
Thanks Paul. That's great and yes please. I will obviously reimburse the cost of the unit and beer tokens for the install guidance! It still amazes me on just how helpful TVR owners are. I've never bought a car and experienced such a great community spirit and bunch of people. As someone said, you buy a TVR and get 50 new friends for free. Cheers
It's because TVR's are chock full of character and are essentially flawed diamonds.If we didn't stick together who would help us when things go wrong?
TVR ownership can be a test of your patience but it becomes an addiction, and for every addiction you'll always find a self help group.
The TVR self help group can be found right here here on PistonHeads and we welcome all new addicts
Supercharger or Turbo anyone
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff