Objecting to proposed speed humps?
Discussion
Matthen said:
I asked my local councillor why a local speed limit needed reducing from 40 --> 30, despite there having been 0 accidents in the last 40 years.
They did it anyway. Nothing to do with the fact that her house is in that estate of course.
.
So she saw an issue and decided to something about i'e by becoming a councillor.They did it anyway. Nothing to do with the fact that her house is in that estate of course.
. You see an issue and spout off on a random faceless internet forum about it,
Which/who do you think was most effective
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/local-transp...
P47- P66
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 15th September 20:51
Rather than "spouting about it", I think you'll find I was looking for advice on a plan of action to stop it.
I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
onyx39 said:
Rather than "spouting about it", I think you'll find I was looking for advice on a plan of action to stop it.
I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
20mph limit or 30mph?I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
Your answer is here
http://www.bracknell-forest.gov.uk/traffic-calming...
It's a "school safety zone"!
http://www.bracknell-forest.gov.uk/traffic-calming...
It's a "school safety zone"!
onyx39 said:
Rather than "spouting about it", I think you'll find I was looking for advice on a plan of action to stop it.
I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
I'm not sure that it's average speed that concerns people, it's more likely the small number of people driving at excessive speed. If we could find a way of targeting those people then speed humps/cushions wouldn't be needed. I have been emailing the local council about it this afternoon.
They have confirmed the following:
The average recorded speed along this stretch of road is 26 mph.
There has been one recorded accident, which involved a cyclist and a parked car. Therefore not speed related.
^^^^^^
Typically, as a group, drivers often do themselves no favours. If they were to propose humps on my road on the basis of people driving too fast for the conditions, we would have a hard time objecting to it and the culprits are all living on this street (or streets off this street).
Typically, as a group, drivers often do themselves no favours. If they were to propose humps on my road on the basis of people driving too fast for the conditions, we would have a hard time objecting to it and the culprits are all living on this street (or streets off this street).
herewego said:
These are cushions not humps, you should have no problem with them.
Not if you have a Rangerover perhaps. The last 3 cars I have had (including my current one) could all bottom out on cushion type speed humps.That's my problem with them - they disproportionately punish drivers of different cars.
Drive a large 4x4 and you can take these speed humps easily at or even well above the speed limit with no ill effects. Try the same in a Lotus Elise at even 50% of the speed limit - and you are likely to be facing a hefty repair bill.
Moonhawk said:
Not if you have a Rangerover perhaps. The last 3 cars I have had (including my current one) could all bottom out on cushion type speed humps.
That's my problem with them - they disproportionately punish drivers of different cars.
Drive a large 4x4 and you can take these speed humps easily at or even well above the speed limit with no ill effects. Try the same in a Lotus Elise at even 50% of the speed limit - and you are likely to be facing a hefty repair bill.
If your car has less than 75mm of ground clearance is the problem really with the road ? That's my problem with them - they disproportionately punish drivers of different cars.
Drive a large 4x4 and you can take these speed humps easily at or even well above the speed limit with no ill effects. Try the same in a Lotus Elise at even 50% of the speed limit - and you are likely to be facing a hefty repair bill.
A large proportion of my time is spent dealing with complaints about what we now refer to ASB driving (we give them another less appropriate name in the office). They are the type of driver who basically doesn’t give a st and drives inappropriately for the conditions.
A resident will see these people doing “50 in a 30” and complain, speed surveys will often show fairly good compliance to the limit but people demand something is done about them (and councillors want to get re-elected), you can’t permanently post a copper with a speed gun there so traffic calming is often the only option left.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, 9/10 people that live on a street with traffic calming want it, 9/10 people that use the street don’t want it!
t and drives inappropriately for the conditions. A resident will see these people doing “50 in a 30” and complain, speed surveys will often show fairly good compliance to the limit but people demand something is done about them (and councillors want to get re-elected), you can’t permanently post a copper with a speed gun there so traffic calming is often the only option left.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, 9/10 people that live on a street with traffic calming want it, 9/10 people that use the street don’t want it!
liner33 said:
If your car has less than 75mm of ground clearance is the problem really with the road ?
It doesn't. My last 3 cars (all unmodified) - had a manufacturers stated ground clearance of 127mm, 125mm and 130mm respectively - yet all 3 would scrape cushion type speed humps if I straddled them.
Say you're concerned about the increased CO2 emissions created by drivers having to brake and accelerate due to the presence of speed bumps. Mention something about everytime someone drives over a speedbump that a polar bears dies.
Get something in about the future of our children, carbon footprint and nvironmemtal responsibility
http://co2calculator.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/what...
Get something in about the future of our children, carbon footprint and nvironmemtal responsibility
http://co2calculator.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/what...
Moonhawk said:
It doesn't.
My last 3 cars (all unmodified) - had a manufacturers stated ground clearance of 127mm, 125mm and 130mm respectively - yet all 3 would scrape cushion type speed humps if I straddled them.
The trick is to have a wheel on one of the angled faces, only by about 5cm onto the cushion and that allows you to roll over without scraping. The downside is in a wide car your other wheel is going to either hit the kerb or oncoming traffic depending on which wheel you use!My last 3 cars (all unmodified) - had a manufacturers stated ground clearance of 127mm, 125mm and 130mm respectively - yet all 3 would scrape cushion type speed humps if I straddled them.
I've got some knowledge. Guidance recently changed on what does or does not constitute "traffic calming". (See DfT's "Setting Local Speed Limits" 2013, section 6)
It now covers: Repeater speed limit signs, speed roundel road markings, a combination of both, or physical features such as humps, cushions, pedestrian refuges, bends of a certain radius, pinchpoints. (http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2002.pdf Page 418 para 16.2 defines "traffic calming feature")
Is the calming in preparation for a 20mph zone introduction? Most guidance around traffic calming is for the self-enforcement of 20mph limits
Could you ask for 30 roundels to be painted on the road instead of noisy, damaging, high-maintenance cushions? They are cheaper and arguably as effective for the "absent minded" speeder. Mr Innit in his chavved-up Civic will always ignore a limit, it's just with speed humps he will be slowing down to a crawl outside your house (or wherever the humps are located) before roaring away in first, second, third gear with his cherry bomb parping away, a nuisance for all. And this will be 24/7. You will get increased noise from EVERY vehicle that drives down the road, even at more harmless times like 3AM.
Speed humps are genuinely something to be avoided.
Hope this helps
Yours
A highways engineer, and the 20mph officer for a large City.
PS Tom, above, is correct. Everyone wants the effects of the calming, but they don't want the method of calming to be installed outside their front door! It's understandable, I wouldn't want it either.
It now covers: Repeater speed limit signs, speed roundel road markings, a combination of both, or physical features such as humps, cushions, pedestrian refuges, bends of a certain radius, pinchpoints. (http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2002.pdf Page 418 para 16.2 defines "traffic calming feature")
Is the calming in preparation for a 20mph zone introduction? Most guidance around traffic calming is for the self-enforcement of 20mph limits
Could you ask for 30 roundels to be painted on the road instead of noisy, damaging, high-maintenance cushions? They are cheaper and arguably as effective for the "absent minded" speeder. Mr Innit in his chavved-up Civic will always ignore a limit, it's just with speed humps he will be slowing down to a crawl outside your house (or wherever the humps are located) before roaring away in first, second, third gear with his cherry bomb parping away, a nuisance for all. And this will be 24/7. You will get increased noise from EVERY vehicle that drives down the road, even at more harmless times like 3AM.
Speed humps are genuinely something to be avoided.
Hope this helps
Yours
A highways engineer, and the 20mph officer for a large City.
PS Tom, above, is correct. Everyone wants the effects of the calming, but they don't want the method of calming to be installed outside their front door! It's understandable, I wouldn't want it either.
OpulentBob said:
I've got some knowledge. Guidance recently changed on what does or does not constitute "traffic calming". (See DfT's "Setting Local Speed Limits" 2013, section 6)
It now covers: Repeater speed limit signs, speed roundel road markings, a combination of both, or physical features such as humps, cushions, pedestrian refuges, bends of a certain radius, pinchpoints. (http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2002.pdf Page 418 para 16.2 defines "traffic calming feature")
Is the calming in preparation for a 20mph zone introduction? Most guidance around traffic calming is for the self-enforcement of 20mph limits
Could you ask for 30 roundels to be painted on the road instead of noisy, damaging, high-maintenance cushions? They are cheaper and arguably as effective for the "absent minded" speeder. Mr Innit in his chavved-up Civic will always ignore a limit, it's just with speed humps he will be slowing down to a crawl outside your house (or wherever the humps are located) before roaring away in first, second, third gear with his cherry bomb parping away, a nuisance for all. And this will be 24/7. You will get increased noise from EVERY vehicle that drives down the road, even at more harmless times like 3AM.
Speed humps are genuinely something to be avoided.
Hope this helps
Yours
A highways engineer, and the 20mph officer for a large City.
PS Tom, above, is correct. Everyone wants the effects of the calming, but they don't want the method of calming to be installed outside their front door! It's understandable, I wouldn't want it either.
Thanks Bob, It now covers: Repeater speed limit signs, speed roundel road markings, a combination of both, or physical features such as humps, cushions, pedestrian refuges, bends of a certain radius, pinchpoints. (http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsrgd/tsrgd2002.pdf Page 418 para 16.2 defines "traffic calming feature")
Is the calming in preparation for a 20mph zone introduction? Most guidance around traffic calming is for the self-enforcement of 20mph limits
Could you ask for 30 roundels to be painted on the road instead of noisy, damaging, high-maintenance cushions? They are cheaper and arguably as effective for the "absent minded" speeder. Mr Innit in his chavved-up Civic will always ignore a limit, it's just with speed humps he will be slowing down to a crawl outside your house (or wherever the humps are located) before roaring away in first, second, third gear with his cherry bomb parping away, a nuisance for all. And this will be 24/7. You will get increased noise from EVERY vehicle that drives down the road, even at more harmless times like 3AM.
Speed humps are genuinely something to be avoided.
Hope this helps
Yours
A highways engineer, and the 20mph officer for a large City.
PS Tom, above, is correct. Everyone wants the effects of the calming, but they don't want the method of calming to be installed outside their front door! It's understandable, I wouldn't want it either.
This is the sort of info I was hoping to get, I will digest properly, and formulate my formal objection accordingly.
In the meantime, Sandhust has a couple of Facebook groups which are very busy, so I am trying to garner support on there (although opinions are divided as you would expect).
I have also emailed the local councilor who lives very close to this road, although I suspect I can guess which side of the fence he will sit.
I know from personal experience that things he does not support are generally stopped.
Below is an email received from Bracknell Forest Council.
Sounds like they are alluding towards a 20 mph limit sadly.
"Thank you for your address and your enquiry.
The decision has not been made, we are consulting the public which ends on the 3rd of October 2014.
The process of the Traffic Regulation Order is to seek the views and support from our local Councillors and Police, prior to the public consultation.
The aim of a lower speed limit is not to bring inconvenience but to help to enhance a sustainable modes of transport environment in encouraging diversion to walking/ cycling to school and a general safety for all road users.
The survey shows an average speed of 26mph along Cambridge Road.
Therefore, to lower the existing '30' speed limit, to '20' mph zone with an introduction of the self-forcing traffic calming features, is considered appropriate.
For information, there was one accident along Cambridge Road which involve a cyclist and a driver near a parked vehicle.
Please contact me, should you like to meet on site"
TheAllSeeingPie said:
The trick is to have a wheel on one of the angled faces, only by about 5cm onto the cushion and that allows you to roll over without scraping. The downside is in a wide car your other wheel is going to either hit the kerb or oncoming traffic depending on which wheel you use!
Yep - I know the tricks - but the point is, it's unfair for a road to be designed in such a way to penalise only certain types of car - even though they are perfectly road legal.Perhaps the rise in popularity of SUV type cars can be partly attributed to the spread of speed humps......if you can't stop speed humps going in - you may as well buy a car that minimises their impact.
onyx39 said:
Thanks Bob,
This is the sort of info I was hoping to get, I will digest properly, and formulate my formal objection accordingly.
In the meantime, Sandhust has a couple of Facebook groups which are very busy, so I am trying to garner support on there (although opinions are divided as you would expect).
I have also emailed the local councilor who lives very close to this road, although I suspect I can guess which side of the fence he will sit.
I know from personal experience that things he does not support are generally stopped.
Below is an email received from Bracknell Forest Council.
Sounds like they are alluding towards a 20 mph limit sadly.
"Thank you for your address and your enquiry.
The decision has not been made, we are consulting the public which ends on the 3rd of October 2014.
The process of the Traffic Regulation Order is to seek the views and support from our local Councillors and Police, prior to the public consultation.
The aim of a lower speed limit is not to bring inconvenience but to help to enhance a sustainable modes of transport environment in encouraging diversion to walking/ cycling to school and a general safety for all road users.
The survey shows an average speed of 26mph along Cambridge Road.
Therefore, to lower the existing '30' speed limit, to '20' mph zone with an introduction of the self-forcing traffic calming features, is considered appropriate.
For information, there was one accident along Cambridge Road which involve a cyclist and a driver near a parked vehicle.
Please contact me, should you like to meet on site"
This is the guidance doc they will be using.This is the sort of info I was hoping to get, I will digest properly, and formulate my formal objection accordingly.
In the meantime, Sandhust has a couple of Facebook groups which are very busy, so I am trying to garner support on there (although opinions are divided as you would expect).
I have also emailed the local councilor who lives very close to this road, although I suspect I can guess which side of the fence he will sit.
I know from personal experience that things he does not support are generally stopped.
Below is an email received from Bracknell Forest Council.
Sounds like they are alluding towards a 20 mph limit sadly.
"Thank you for your address and your enquiry.
The decision has not been made, we are consulting the public which ends on the 3rd of October 2014.
The process of the Traffic Regulation Order is to seek the views and support from our local Councillors and Police, prior to the public consultation.
The aim of a lower speed limit is not to bring inconvenience but to help to enhance a sustainable modes of transport environment in encouraging diversion to walking/ cycling to school and a general safety for all road users.
The survey shows an average speed of 26mph along Cambridge Road.
Therefore, to lower the existing '30' speed limit, to '20' mph zone with an introduction of the self-forcing traffic calming features, is considered appropriate.
For information, there was one accident along Cambridge Road which involve a cyclist and a driver near a parked vehicle.
Please contact me, should you like to meet on site"
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Para 94.
"Traffic authorities can now incorporate wider areas within a 20 mph zone, by effectively signing 20mph speed limits on distributor roads where traffic calming features are not suitable, or for small individual roads or stretches of road, where mean speeds are already at or below 24 mph."
24mph. Not 26mph... (only 2mph but it's mean speed so it is an important distinction.
Were it me, I would suggest road markings (at maybe £200 each, installed) and additional repeater signs (Mine cost under £20 each, plus installation, plus post (post cost up to maybe £300!) if required), maybe even a vehicle activated sign on a lamp post (approx £2.5k plus post), before the council go for physical measures which cause noise, additional damage to the road (accelerating/braking), disruption, problems for emergency services and buses, etc etc.
If they say it is impossible, impractical, ineffective etc, tell them to look at Cambridge. Cambridge is in the process of installing a city-wide 20mph limit and not a single new physical carriageway obstruction is being installed. In fact, in some places I'm removing speed humps in order to install a road marking. If I can do it across a city with 17% cycle traffic and a huge proportion of inexperienced foreign drivers, then I'm sure they can do it on a road in leafy Berkshire!
Slightly OT, but I consider the 20 zone to be trying to re-introcude what 30 used to be. Most people informally treat a 30mph zone as a 35mph zone, and allow speeds to creep up. If a 20mph zone encourages sub-30, say 25ish mph speeds (at the higher end), then job done. People will have shorter stopping distances, more warning, and slighly more peaceful streets. We definitely don't want everyone doing 19mph everywhere. Jsut a gentle encouragement to slow down a touch.
Good luck. If I can help any more, just say.
Moonhawk said:
liner33 said:
If your car has less than 75mm of ground clearance is the problem really with the road ?
It doesn't. My last 3 cars (all unmodified) - had a manufacturers stated ground clearance of 127mm, 125mm and 130mm respectively - yet all 3 would scrape cushion type speed humps if I straddled them.
so i decided to only use 1st gear for the rest of the road... childish and noisy, but made me feel better
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